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Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Eric Maclean on July 19, 2024, 10:24:22 PM »
I assume at this point you have checked to see if you have power and grounds where you need them at the fuses and the TCM.
The double asterisk symbol identitys that the shift pads is not receiving information from the TCM this could be an issue with power to the TCM or a power supply issue within the TCM ( dead TCM ).

This may sound crazy but I have heard people having good luck diagnosis this by using a hair dryer to heat the TCM up for 5 to 10 minutes sometimes will
Get the TCM to communicate again allowing the TCM to operate and once you have a neutral indicator on the shift pad the engine should start.
If this works it indicates a problem internal to the TCM.
It worth a try.

Also to help with simple diagnostics this web site can help
First we'll need to know whether you have a W tech ll or W Tech lll system as they use a different wiring diagram and TCM.
The TCM should be located in the kick panel below the shift pad the WTech ll has rounded plugs where as the WTech lll has an longer narrower plug
This web site has step by step diagnostics for both

General Discussion / Re: 98 Beaver motor coach info.
« Last post by Eric Maclean on July 19, 2024, 05:36:03 PM »
If the units still work they are likely still charged properly as they are hermetically sealed
One thing you will want to do though while you have the covers off is to open up the evaporator box and give the evaporator core a good cleaning as over time they will collect dust and dirt on the fins which will slow the air flow through it and kill the units ability to cool.
Also check the condenser fins clean and straighten any which are bent over blocking air flow and while your there put a drop of oil on the fan motor shafts.

Hope you find this helpful
General Discussion / Re: 98 Beaver motor coach info.
« Last post by Randy Keaveny on July 19, 2024, 05:06:05 PM »
Thanks again Eric!!!  looked up the company from I just need to verify which units I have....I really wish I could recharge the units....but.. I am not a refrigerant'll just live with what I does get it cooler in the motorhome but on those 100 degree days you can feel it beating down thru the roof

ill be back down there in a few weeks so ill do some more research

thanks for all your help

Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Steve Huber Co-Admin on July 19, 2024, 04:55:24 PM »
Maybe I'm reading your previous posts wrong, but while you told us that fuses were good , you didn't (or I missed it) relate where you found 12v and where you didn't. The symptoms appear to indicate a loss of 12v somewhere  so verifying the presence of 12v is critical to solving the problem.  If you haven't yet you may want to refer to pgs 16 & 18 of the 04 Patriot wiring diagrams in Coach Assist.
That said, since the problem occurred after you had the chassis batteries out and then reinstalled, it could be caused by an arc (fuse blown) when you re-hooked up the batteries. However the fact that it ran for a short time and moved, it would seem to possibly be due to a loose/ faulty connection. The electrical connections to the trannny underneath the coach can be problematic due to the harsh environment. That said, I'd recommend concentrating on the presence/loss of 12v.
Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Randy Stephenson on July 19, 2024, 04:47:00 PM »
Paragraph 6.6. Unfortunately, it seems that it needs to be running to do these checks.

DIAGNOSTIC CODE TROUBLESHOOTING A. Beginning The Troubleshooting Process
1. Begin troubleshooting by checking the transmission fluid level and ECU input voltage. Check di- agnostic codes by using:
• The shift selector display
• Allison DOCTM For PC–Service Tool
2. When a problem exists but a diagnostic code is not indicated, refer to Section 8, General Trouble- shooting of Performance Complaints for a listing of various electrical and hydraulic problems, their causes, and remedies.
3. If a diagnostic code is found in the ECU memory, record all available code information and clear the active indicator. Refer to Paragraph 6–2.
4. Test drive the vehicle to confirm a diagnostic code or performance complaint.
• If the code reappears, refer to Paragraph 6–5, Table 6–2. Table 6–2 lists diagnostic codes and their description.
• If the code does not reappear, it may be an intermittent problem. Use Allison DOCTM For PC– Service Tool or the code display procedure described in Paragraph 6–2.
• The code display procedure will indicate the number of times the diagnostic code has occurred. Refer to Section 8, General Troubleshooting of Performance Complaints, for the possible cause(s) of the problem.
• Use pressure gauges as necessary to evaluate hydraulic conditions.
• Appendix A deals with the identification of potential circuit problems. Refer to Appendix A if a
circuit problem is suspected.
5. If difficulties arise, you have unanswered questions, or if you are unable to quickly identify the root cause during troubleshooting, please contact the Technical Assistance Center (TAC):
Technical Assistance Center
PO Box 894, Mail Code 462-470-PF9 Indianapolis, IN 46206-0894
Phone: 1-800-252-5283
Information concerning specific items is contained in the appendices located in the back of this manual. The appendices are referred to throughout the manual.
B. Solenoid Locations
Solenoid locations in the control module are as illustrated in Figure 6–1. Refer to Figure 6–1 as necessary when using the diagnostic code schematics.
C. Diagnostic Code Schematics
The diagnostic code schematics in this section show wiring for both the optional oil level sensor and retarder, where applicable. If your transmission is not equipped with an oil level sensor or retarder, disregard the portions of the schematic pertaining to those optional pieces of equipment. Refer to the appropriate transmission service manual for solenoid replacement procedures.
Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Randy Stephenson on July 19, 2024, 04:41:58 PM »
This is from the Allison trouble shooting manual, As Eric said, my picture is not cateyes!  It seems to be boxes with an x through them.  See the following:  I may send my photo to Allison to confirm its meaning is a cateye condition.

• “Cateye”—The backward slash segment and the middle horizontal segments (-\-) may be on under the following conditions:
— RSI link fault is active (code 23 12 or 23 14)
— When two COP timeouts occur within two seconds of each other (reference code 69 33)
— Shift selector display line fault is active (23 16)
• All Segments Displayed—All display segments will be illuminated if a severity 1 diagnostic code is present during initialization, or if an electrical code for solenoids A, B, C, D, E, or G is logged before initialization completes.

 Main code 23 indicates a fault with a shift selector or the wiring between a shift selector and the ECU.
Main Code
Primary shift selector fault—a “cateye” (-/-) type display may occur

Primary shift selector mode function fault. Mode change not permitted

Secondary shift selector fault—a “cateye” (-/-) type display may occur

Secondary shift selector mode function fault. Mode change not permitted

Shift selector display line fault

A. Active Indicator Clearing Procedure:
• Power down • Manual
• Self-clearing
Before troubleshooting, read Paragraph 6–6.

B. Troubleshooting:
1. Clear the active indicator for code 23 XX. If code recurs, continue to Step (2). 2. Test for a poor connection at the shift selector.
Code 23 12 can result when the +5V line (wire 124) which powers the shift selector is shorted to ground. Wire 124 also powers the TPS, OLS, RMR, retarder temperature sensor, and sump oil temperature sensor and is present in all three ECU connectors.
3. Disconnect the selector “S” harness connector from the ECU and from the shift selector and check for opens, shorts, and shorts-to-ground between the shift selector and ECU (refer to Section 4). Repair as needed (refer to Appendix E).
4. If no problem is found with the shift selector connection or wiring, replace the shift selector.
5. If the condition persists, replace the ECU. If replacing the ECU corrects the problem, reinstall the original (bad) ECU to confirm that the problem is in the ECU. If the original ECU now works, in- spect the ECU connectors for any corrosion or damage which may cause an intermittent condition. If the original problem recurs, reinstall the replacement ECU.
Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Randy Stephenson on July 19, 2024, 04:30:23 PM »
I too find it interesting that Steve's Contessa started with the ** symbol!  I am now wondering if I am chasing the wrong issue!
Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Randy Stephenson on July 19, 2024, 03:28:44 PM »
Eric, thank you for the suggestions.

1) I have checked the battery cables a few times, and studied photos I took before taking them out.  Positive, negative cables,  and three wires going to the negative are per the photos. 
2) Regarding the power feed, I have a one fuse block next to the chassis batteries which hold five fuses and one relay for the cooling fan.  All blade type fuses test for contiunity.  I have taken a fuse out and checked the pad, it does not have power, therefore, this test indicates the pad is receiving power from the fuse block.

3) Dedicated ground wires, I assume theses are the three wires that are connected to the negative battery post.  I have not seen any others.

4) Transmission relay box, I am not sure were this is?  I will need to revise the battery area for search.

5) My forward electrical bay has two boxes, one for leveling and one for the smart wheel.  I have checked the solenoid and it tests for power properly with key off and key on.  Also checked the buss bars, all contact test for 12 volts.  I have considered installing a back up solenoid for testing purposes.

6) I do have a black Allison box under the shift pad, is this the transmission relay box you referenced.  It has two 10 amp blade fuses, they check for continuity.  I have tested them by puling the fuses and the pad does not have power.  Therefore, I know that are connecting.  Dave, thank you for your suggestion regarding the back box.

7) I considered crawling under to check transmission connections.  Unfortunately, all my air is depleted and it's really setting low.  I'm not sure I can get to the harness.  Also, since it started before I ruled this out as a cause.

8) I have turned both battery bank switchs on and off, pulled fuses and powered the batteries on, reinstalled fuses and powered up hoping to re-boot the trans pad....without luck.  I am tankful I am not at a rest stop, on the road, or at a camp site with an issue like this, its really frusrating!

Yesterday I spoke to Allison and they suggested holding down the two arrow tabs at the same time for 12 seconds to reset codes, I had tried this a few days ago without luck; and tried again with him on the phone, no luck.  He recommended that I have a tech hook up a laptop and re-flash the system.  After many calls to Allison centers, I found one that will do field service.  So, I won't have to have the unit towed.  Unfortunately, they are 250 miles round trip away and charge by the mile; about $750, along with $190 an hour for the diagnostic time.

Additionally, I unhooked all connections going to the trans pad and re-connected them with no change.

One thing that is haunting me, when I pulled out of my barn the Beaver only ran for around 10 - 15 minutes, I moved forward and backward a few feet several times to try and level it the best that I could.  I am wondering if this quick forward / reverse  and limited run time may have not allowed significant time for the transmission to communicate neutral?

I am going to go through the above steps a few more times to assure no potential issue was missed.  Along with studying the Allison diagnostic manual 23XX code section again (thanks for the suggestion Eric).  If no luck, I'll have the Allison tech pay me a visit.

Thank you for this information.  The air coming out of my duct work is 20 colder or more than the air going in the intake so yes the AC units are working like they should. I really believe I need more air flow for sure and was wondering if there is a way to get more CFM coming out of the vents.  It sounds crazy but I wonder if they make vent covers with fans built into them or a way to get some type of fan in or near the vents to pull or push more air into the RV?  My buddy came over yesterday with a camera scope and we scoped the duct work in the hallway by the bathroom door and saw that the duct work T's into that vent in the hall above the sink that gets no air out of it unless I close most of the other vents and that because they factory did a real poor job of joining that vent into the main duct line that runs down the center of the RV.  They just shoved that duct into the side of the main duct and it stick in there about 3-4 inches instead of a clean proper flush mount with tape to seal it properly.  Although I don't believe that changing that or fixing it would make any difference at all in the front of the coach where it's warmer because the AC units from front to back are separated and not pushing against each other anymore as the RV shop put a block in the duct work to separate them.  Me and my wife are taking it out of town today so we are going to see if the all the suggestions we have learned from this thread make a difference or hopefully fixed this issue.

Also just to mention the 2 units are new I had the RV shop replace the old units with Dometic Blizzard 15.5K.  I also asked them if they could add a 3rd unit in the vent in front of the microwave and they said there was no way they could make that happen. 
Technical Support / Re: Transmission Pad - Patriot won't start
« Last post by Steve Huber Co-Admin on July 19, 2024, 03:30:25 AM »
Interesting re the **. My Contessa started showing them awhile ago, but only with ignition key off. Had no issue starting or running.
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