BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Rick Daniels on May 06, 2022, 04:24:20 PM
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It had to happen some day and it did. While traveling on I-15 north of Idaho Falls I suddenly lost power steering. Moments later check engine light came on and temp rapidly climbed to 220. No off ramp nearby pulled off the traffic lane and shut down. Did what I could in trouble shooting the problem. Engine temp cooled, no fluid leaks, all fluid levels checked ok. Started engine ran normal check engine light no longer on but still no power steering. Self diagnosis led me to believe it was a problem with the hydraulic pump as it only serves power steering and engine cooling fan. Good Sam Roadside service arranged for towing/hauling to Eagle Rock RV Service center in Idaho Falls. I have some issues with Good Sam Roadside assistance but they eventually got me off the freeway after five hours. Adam at Eagle Rock is very accommodating. Staying in the coach pending repairs and analysis. Local hydraulic firm doing a hydraulic pressure test this AM. Initial visual check of fluid in the filter showed evidence (in their opinion) of the presence of metal. Only challenge I have at the moment, other than the financial impact, is my black and grey tank capacity probably wont last through the many days until back on the road and there is no ability to dump at Eagle Rock RV. Oh well s--t happens.
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Rick,
Sorry to hear about your problem. Some Walmarts sell portable waste tanks that you can use to haul waste to a dump station.
Steve
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He has one here at eagle rock RV. I thought of that earlier after I saw it. I am going to see if he has an outside sewer cleanout and if so will consider it. I just found a mobile rv septic/holding tank pumper about 20 miles away. I'll check there rates.
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Rick sorry to hear about the problems a few years ago I had a pump failure that cause $22K in damage and left the rig in for repair for 9 months.
The symptoms same as yours while driving I saw the over heat lost steering. The 06 PT had 2 pumps the main pump failure cause the problems for the rest of the failure PS pump, cooling fan, Danforth value( 3 of these) , Main pump total failure and the metal got into the reservoir.
The reason for the long repair time was our warranty would not allow used or rebuilt parts. The Danforth wax valve could be a easy fix you can get these out of Oregon they come from England but are a stock item
I remember that Massey started with the fan motor found meatal, pulled the main Hdy motor and found the sheared shaft. The whole system required purging a big job.
I hope this information will be helpful.
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"OUCH" $22K, that was then, this is now. Love my coach but $22K today for a 23 year old coach worth about $40K is not something I would absorb. My coach only has 117,000 miles with only 38,000 on the Cat C-12 reman engine. Hopefully it hasn't damaged other components. I do know the system will have to be flushed and re-filtered twice after pump replacement or rebuild. Hope my luck today is better than yours was Jerry. Should know more early next week as this shop does not work on the week-end. I did find out that the engine mounted hydraulic pump is not a CAT pump. It was added by Magnum Chassis/Beaver in 1998-9.
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Just got the "estimate" and diagnosis. $8-10K. The spline shaft on the engine mounted hydraulic pump and the female spline on the engine completely stripped. That does not include having to cut the center of the rear bumper off and reinstall it at a body shop. That's just an estimate. Checking on trucking it to home base in Three Forks Montana and consider my options from there. Oh woe is me. I think Shakespeare said that.
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Rick,
Sorry to hear about your breakdown! If you don't mind could you let us know how much it would be to have it towed back to your home base.
Not trying to encourage you to do that or not, but I have often been interested in the cost of bringing a rig home several hundred or thousand miles. I live on the east coast,NC, and I could probably get a better price on fixing my coach here than in other parts of the country.
When my wife retires I/we hope to explore the western states and I know that a engine replacement is one of the possibilities for my coach. It may not make financial since, but it will keep the coach going and we have already addressed most of its other issues.
I hope you somehow get some better news, or a better price. Good luck!
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Rick
There are several salvage yards around the country like Visone in Kentucky or AZrvsalvage in phoenix. The spelling might be wrong so google.
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Rick
My advise would be to talk to Dave Atherton and see what he can do for you
The stripped splines on that engine driven pump is not an uncommon fault but it does present a problem with metal filings being carried by the oil to the rest of the engine .
I don't believe the engine has to come out to do the repair so I don't understand why the rear bumper needs to be cut.
I'm sure Dave will have more insight on this matter ( I'd talk to him before going ahead )
The C12 is a good engine and worth the effort .
Eric
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Good morning Rick, let me ask few questions ? Hyd pump failure, is the damage contained outside of the engine at pump coupling and metal milling outside of reman engine. My suggestion number one
There is a Caterpillar shop at exit 19 along west side of I-15. First thing I would do is take a oil sample of the engine oil to be sure addressing the failure is not within the engine. Second coupling failure happened because of a dry coupling. Cleaning up the hyd system and replacement of failed parts is
not going to be the end of the world as many may think. I have my thoughts with your warranty people
and what they will not pay for. ( just had a bad experience with a caterpillar engine where they did
not pay for many parts and labor. Look real close at the warranty fine print real close will be a eye
opener. ) Pump replacement I may have a pump replacement that will be most of the cost of your
Problem. Cleaning the hydraulic system if screen and hydraulic filter are in place will not be a big
Idem cleaning the hydraulic system. Depending on direction of milling from failure taken,the sequence
valve may prevented major failure. The cost is out of line if I reading your post correct.
Last is milling from the failed coupling entered the engine oil from bearing failure than the engine would need to come out and torn down cleaned of all metal milling should of which replacement engine
woul be the route to go cost wise. Remember buying a good used caterpillar C-12 takeout engine
there is nothing to worry about future problems ( the engine is a very good engine with trouble free
service ) in closing had a caterpillar C-9 with same problem 2 years ago and ended up getting a used engine for owner. Taking oil sample is extreme important on your engine. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Good Morning Dave. Thanks for your input. The RV shop that I am at pulled the Hyd pump. The splined shaft is worn near smooth. Looking through the bearing to the internal splines, it appears the female splines are also worn significantly. My understanding is that engine oil lubricates that bearing and splined connection. So, I would say the the failure is within the engine.
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I have decided to have the motor home towed to my Montana property. 220 miles. In the process of getting bids but so far, one company can only move it by putting it on a trailer and another pulls it by lifting the front end off the ground, disconnecting the drive line and baking off the air brakes. The trailer guy is three times as expensive as the tow guy. I have read mixed opinions on towing vs trailering. I understand trailering is best but what are the risk of towing? The RV repair facility that I am at recommended the tow guy and said many Class A's have come to his shop in tow. Thanks for any in advance for any input.
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Rick
I have seen way to many disasters from towing Magnum chassis motorhomes. Wreckers designed to lift over the road trucks by the front axles really do not work well lifting the front of a Magnum chassis motorhome. The axle is too far back from the front of the coach and the fiberglass front cap is too low. The result often ends in a cracked and broken front cap. Motorhomes on the common Freightliner chassis do not have as much problem and can be rather easily towed. I know that trailering is much more expensive, but if it were mine, that is what I would do. Sorry that you are in that position.
FYI: Dave Atherton talked me thru changing an injector in my C9 when I was broken down in Eagle Nest New Mexico last Summer. Took me two weeks, but I avoided having to be towed 200 miles out of the mountains. I had insurance to cover the cost of the tow, but I did not want to chance the damage. Good luck.
Richard
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Thanks Richard, If I would have known what I was up against I would have worked a deal with the original hauler and paid the difference to take it home. My roadside assistance only covered to the nearest facility which was only 20 miles away. I'll just add this episode to my "If I would have known" book which at 77 years old is now containing a record breaking number of chapters.
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Rick,
IMHO I would get the oil sample run ASAP. It will tell you what you are up against vis a vis the engine, and if fortunate will let you sleep easier at night. I agree with Richard about towing and the front axle location re Magnum chassis units. Also be sure to check the rear and tie the mud flap up or you won't have one when you arrive. Be sure to have the tow driver mark the driveshaft location when he disconnects it so it can be reassembled in the same location. Only downside re trailering other than cost is low bridges.
Steve
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Rick, the spline coupling that the hydraulic pump shaft slides into is not lubricant area other than the
Technician lubing shaft when mounting hydraulic pump. Unless you can see the bearing on the female
coupling more than likely you may get lucky. We preform this service when we do motorhome inspections and is a very important area of concern than not addressed until failure happened such
as your case.
Moving the motorhome back to your home is a very excellent call on this problem. Again as I indicated
on my first post ( there will be labor involved of which you will be in complete control of.) feel free
to contact me if you need technical advice. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Thanks Steve Huber. The mud flap is destroyed just putting it on the trailer when taken off the freeway. Thanks Dave Atherton I am starting to feel better about potential engine damage. The coach is being towed home tomorrow. At least that's the current plan.
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I think that’s the smart choice, Rick. Then if there’s an issue after a local-to-your-home shop does the work, warranty repairs will be nearby and likely much more convenient.
Sorry about the mud flap. I have to unshackle ours just to get in and out of the sidewalk dip in our driveway. After initial damage in 2007-8, I managed to pound out some of its dents, restraighten it, and POR-15 dings exposed to rusting.
Joel
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Thanks Steve Huber. The mud flap is destroyed just putting it on the trailer when taken off the freeway. Thanks Dave Atherton I am starting to feel better about potential engine damage. The coach is being towed home tomorrow. At least that's the current plan.
How has this situation turned out. Guessing your Hydraulic adapter for your pump is much different than mine, but am still curious as your journey on this repair is similar to mine in ways.
Good luck in all of it
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I concluded that seeking repair in Idaho Falls was not only cost prohibitive but logistically impractical. Camping out in the RV Repair facility parking lot for multiple weeks while the rest of my life was on hold was out of the question. Initial bids to tow it to my property in Montana ranged from $3600 to over $4000. At the recommendation of Adam at Eagle Rock RV and Service center in Idaho Falls I contacted Dan at B&B Auto Body in Mud Lake, Idaho. Dan towed my coach home for $1400.00. Now parked on my property with full hook-up, I am still searching for a reasonable, available and qualified repair facility to repair or replace the hydraulic pump.I highly recommend Eagle Rock RV even though they were not able to complete the repair. I also highly recommend B&B Auto Body. Not only was the price reasonable but Dan did everything right and took special care to protect the coach. Preliminary inquiries in the Bozeman Montana area estimate repairs at half the price of the estimates in Idaho Falls. One mechanic has told me he might even be able to repair it on site without an additional tow bill and he does not believe the rear bumper needs to be cut off to gain necessary access. Hope he is right. Good Sam roadside assistance covered the cost of the tow to Idaho Falls and the rest, so far, has cost $2700.00 which includes a rental car, towing home, diagnostics at Eagle Rock RV and extra blood pressure medication. For now, all is well