BAC Forum
General Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: barbara hazzard on July 31, 2015, 08:04:39 PM
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Good Afternoon,
We just got a 35 foot Beaver Patriot which is our first class A. We are considering purchasing a 15 foot Stealth trailer for our car, kayaks and bikes instead of a toad but would appreciate any advice or experience your may have with doing this. Just concerned if it will limit the number of campgrounds that can accommodate use, general navigation challenges with almost 50 foot of rig, etc. Thanks. Barbara
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Barbara,
Welcome to BAC and the forum. Great place to get questions like this answered. Everyone will have a different view of your question. First, you must determine the weight capacity of the trailer hitch that is on your Patriot. My guess is that you will need a higher capacity hitch for the size trailer you plan to tow.
It would be helpful to us if you could tell us the year and model of your Patriot. Many folks on this forum will know the answer the hitch weight capacity.
Second, I would not recommend the trailer towing because most campgrounds have 45' design limitations. That means you will have to disconnect and reconnect the trailer to store somewhere else on the campground property. This is a real pain.... It is possible to find "big rig" pull thru's that will allow you to remain connected on the site. However, my experience is that these are few and far between. Not the main stream situation.
In general, I think most of us that have pulled trailers or single axle haulers find "4 wheels down" by far the most convenient and less stress. It can have it's disadvantages if you change vehicles a lot or have specialty needs for other types of transportation.
Good luck,
Karl
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First, check your hitch rating. You will likely need at least a 10k rated hitch. Also check your vehicle's gross combined weight limit. The weight of the coach (loaded, full of fuel and water) PLUS the trailer (loaded with toys) should not exceed the combined weight limit.
Second, check what electrical hookup the coach and trailer have. They will need to mate-up so your trailer will have lights and turn signals.
Third, does the trailer have electric brakes. I would assume it does. The coach will need a device that controls the electric brakes on the trailer. If your coach has the device installed, then you're good to go. If not, then get one installed.
We are about 72 feet long when the Avalanche is hooked onto the coach. Generally, when entering a campground the Avalanche gets unhooked right after registering at the office. Rarely do I drive to the RV parking spot with the Avalanche in tow. If your coach will fit into the RV spot, then you're good. All RV parks have a parking spot for your toad and most have a "storage area" where you can park your trailer. Some RV parks have spaces long enough to leave your trailer hooked onto the coach.
Watch your cornering... especially right-hand turns. If you have access to a large gravel/dirt lot, then take your coach there with the trailer hooked on and make the sharpest turn in both directions that your coach's steering will allow. Make note of the rear coach tracks and where the trailer tracks are. In my case, the rear tires of the Avalanche actually go outside the coach's track. That means it's not enough to clear signs and walls with the rear of the coach. I have to ALSO be a bit wider so that the Avalanche will clear the signs and walls.
Never ever be in a hurry in tight maneuvering situations, i.e., high traffic areas, sharp corners, etc. Recently I held up traffic behind me for 15 minutes at a 4-way stop intersection waiting for traffic to clear so that I could make a wide right-hand turn. I had to cross the oncoming traffic's lane to make the turn. In fact, I had to swing way out into the bike lane on the far side of the oncoming traffic's lane! One guy behind me was not happy, but I knew as many cuss words as he did. lol
There's more... but not now.
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Babbara,
You may also want to consider towing a toad 4 wheels down with the kayaks mounted on the roof and bikes on a bike rack mounted in the toad's receiver. The current FMCA newsletter contains the annual towing guides covering towing restrictions etc. on vehicles back through 1999.
Steve
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I would certainly second Steve's proposal. With a good roof kayak rack, customized to the car by the major players like Thule or Yakima they would be both convenient and safe. We have one with roller assemblies that tilt on a Suburban. We use a bike rack that fits a receiver on the car for our travels. Many designs allow access to the trunk or rear of an SUV and are lockable. If you have a trailer arrangement and then unload a vehicle inevitably you still would need the items in this post to go use the toys anyway...this is a case where less is truly more convenient.
Later Ed
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We have a Marquis 42 with a 20 ft stock trailer that we tow all over the country to attend Llama shows. We always call ahead to make sure they have a 65 ft pull-through available. We seldom have a problem. Biggest problem is maneuvering in some RV parks. Remember slow and easy.
Good luck.
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Wow! I am so impressed with everyone's quick response. I really appreciate your insights. We have a 1999 Beaver Patriot Concord 33" hope that answers some of the questions. The hitch is 5K, the Stealth trailer max cargo 3K which is a very small car like a mini cooper.
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Just looked it up and gvwc is 36,000.
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With your relatively short coach, you can fit in spots many others of us can't, like in Forest Service campgrounds, etc. That's one reason why we didn't go longer than a 36 ourselves; that and maneuverability at our narrow home pad and on city streets, etc.
Like would happen with a car dolly though, I wouldn't want to have to deal with parking the coach, a car to prowl with, and finding a spot for a trailer as well. Even if a park has overage spots, sometimes their location can be some distance away from your site, and not particularly convenient.
Ed's input above is pretty much what I'd advise, though a (fishing) kayak and Yakima rack are still only a wish; my backpacker pontoon boat fits nicely inflated but disassembled in the back of our Explorer in the meantime. You can get bike racks that either adapt through a receiver hitch or clamp to one... we had a home built one for our old Pace Arrow so we could still tow a small pickup.
The only thing about bikes on the back of the toad is you can't put a bike cover over them to keep them clean and dry on the road. I went to do that once and it dawned on me the Explorer's tail lights couldn't be seen, so it would be unsafe and illegal. If you have room on the coach hitch, a bike cover wouldn't mask the motorhome's lights.
Joel
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Barbra
What engine is in your coach? No matter how you add it up you will be pushing the max and this will put a strain on the coach especialy hills. Look up engine and transmission temps on this forum.
Downhills will be all about control and that starts with downshifting on a preheated transmission and a well serviced exhaust brake . See also servicing the exhaust brake.
All these responses can be overwelming especialy to new owners. I believe everyone here is hoping to provide ideas or food for thought so that your experience will be all you hope.
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Barbra
What engine is in your coach? No matter how you add it up you will be pushing the max and this will put a strain on the coach especialy hills. Look up engine and transmission temps on this forum.
Downhills will be all about control and that starts with downshifting on a preheated transmission and a well serviced exhaust brake . See also servicing the exhaust brake.
All these responses can be overwelming especialy to new owners. I believe everyone here is hoping to provide ideas or food for thought so that your experience will be all you hope.
Keith, just to make sure I am not missing something on my coach...a jake brake does not require service...right? I don't want to confuse or hijack the thread but just making sure that they are two different things. Thanks.
Jerry
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Don't know about a Jake Brake, Jerry, but Keith said "Exhaust Brake", which includes Pac-brake style ones (made by both Pac Brake and Jacob's Vehicle Systems), and an occasional lube of their mechanism with special heat-resistant lube is prudent.
Joel
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Jerry,
The Jake brake is internal to the head and has mechanicals that do get some adjustment over the life of the engine. It is done whenever the normal valve adjustment is called for and is part of that service. Therefor there is no separate lubrication requirement, the lubrication comes from the engine oil under pressure while running.
Later Ed
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Hi Jerry
Good question. This our second Beaver and I am still learning daily.
The "Jake brake" and the "Pac brake or Exhaust brake" are indeed seperate animals which use different methods to do the same thing. The Jake is internal and as I understand it restricts the function of the valves to create back pressure.
The Pac or Exhaust brake is a solonoid which activates an arm that when it extends it partialy closes a door in the exhaust header and so causes back pressure. Because the Jake is internaly lubed it gets adjusted as posted above. Because the Exhaust brake is external it must be lubed and manualy actuated and relubed on the arm and the door pivots as well because it will freeze up from the heat and corrosion. Now there is a surprise I would avoid.
Thats my 2 cents
Keith
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Thanks all. I guess I'm still a little "punchy." I still don't know what I don't know and after the 9K I've spent this year getting a chassis/fluid/generator and everything else baseline I tend to panic a little. Hopefully I'll get over that!
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Jerry,
The Jake brake that you have is a great system that is pretty much trouble free. It is far superior to the exhaust brake which does raise pressures by restricting the flow of exhaust.
The Jake system basically stops the fuel flow and when the cylinder goes into a compression stroke there is no combustion so you now have a compressor using energy to compress the air in the cylinder. This is a normal compression stroke so the engine never sees any increased pressure or excess stresses. If that air was not exhausted at the top of the stroke then it would drive the cylinder back down so a small third valve is incorporated which opens and the air is exhausted at the top of the stroke which is the distinct sound that an that an unmuffled Jake brake puts out. Your rocker switch drives the mechanicals to utilize all 6 cylinders or just 3 which is the Hi/Low option or off.
Jerry, this is a great system that just needs a little attention to select the right gear while using it if the preselect is not right for the hill at hand. It is all pretty much bullet proof and one of the joys of having a C12.....the other is the power :-)
Later Ed
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Thanks Ed, I do love the Jake brake. I find myself using it under normal driving to almost come to a stop even driving in town. I just keep lots of room between me and other cars.
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Because the Exhaust brake is external it must be lubed and manualy actuated and relubed on the arm and the door pivots as well because it will freeze up from the heat and corrosion. Now there is a surprise I would avoid.
Thats my 2 cents
Keith
Thanks Keith... that's what I was trying to explain. Here's more info: http://pacbrake.com/supplemental-brakes/prxb-exhaust-brakes/maintenance/
Sorry if this thread is sashaying too far afield of your original question, Barbara.
-Joel
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Sorry about the diversion, back to the original question! Our Patriot is 40 ft long and I tow a full size Dodge 4X$ pick up. I never measured but I'm guessing close to 65 ft when hooked up. At a few CGs I usually know whether I'm going to have to unhook as soon as I drive in. With our ReadyBrute Elite it's usually only a matter of 5 minutes or so to unhook. So not a problem so far. Happy Camping!!!
Jerry