BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Emert on May 21, 2014, 06:04:25 PM
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Next question in my MH education series! How do I start/test/exercise the Aqua Hot? I assume it will operate without shore/gen power. Thanks in advance.
Jerry
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The electric water heating element requires either shore or generator power. The diesel burner, coolant circulation pumps, and several fans at the coach interior heat exchangers will operate from the house batteries, but will be quite a pull on the batteries if many or all are operating. I am sure others will correct me if I am wrong. This system, being somewhat complex, takes a while to learn.
My coach has a toggle switch above the couch/sink that actuates the Aqua Hot's diesel burner. My coach has a toggle switch in the 110v power panel in the bedroom that actuates the electric water heating element. All systems with switches in the 110v power panel in the bedroom require either shore or generator power. The three living areas and the basement heating zones have their own thermostats which turn on and off the heat exchanger fans as their particular thermostat setting requires heat.
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without shorepower can I just turn the diesel on and run water until it gets hot oe does it have to heat a holding tank somewhere? I'm mainly concerned with making sure the diesel side works. We used the elec a few weeks ago but have since had an elec surge that fried a few things. I want to make sure it works before signing off on insurance. Thanks
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If you don't have a surge protector, you better get one. T c an happen again.
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I believe there is a holding tank for hot coolant that heat exchanges with fresh water. I do not know its volume, but I think I have heard it's seven-to-ten gallons or so. I know that we can take two short-to-medium length showers before running out of acceptable temperature shower water. The electric element will not heat water as fast as the shower demands it. The diesel burner will heat water as fast as the shower and other systems demand it.
I believe the Aqua Hot operates mostly on 12v power - diesel pump, coolant pumps, etc. It's electric water heating element uses 120v power. For its protection, the Aqua Hot has a row of auto-type fuses enclosed in its exterior box in a fuse block.
I do not know which model of Aqua Hot your coach has, but our coach years are close - mine 2004, yours 2003. This is a link to the service manual for the Aqua Hot unit in my coach. All I know and more is contained in this service manual. I doubt your Aqua Hot would be much different than mine. The flow chart on page 11 may be fun to see.
http://www.aquahot.com/esource/ecom/esource/staticpages/documents/AHE-100-02S%20Service%20Manual%20Rev.%20B%209-27-2011.pdf
With noisy things off (TVs, radios, engines, etc.) I can hear the diesel burner fire up when I turn it on. Also, I can always go outside and check its exhaust. Obviously, if the exhaust is warm or hot, then the diesel burner has fired up. If the electric heating element is operating, then there is a significant amperage draw showing on the Leg 2 reading on my Aladdin electrical screen.
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If you don't have a surge protector, you better get one. T c an happen again.
It's a long story but I had a 50 amp but storage lot hooked up a 30 amp connection by mistake. Didn't have a 30 amp so I took a chance and lost. They had wired it wrong and fried switch, inverter and Hopefully nothing else. But yes I learned a valuable lesson. I would never have done that at a camp ground but they had a licensed electrician do it so I felt safe. Hard lessons are the best!
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I believe there is a holding tank for hot coolant that heat exchanges with fresh water. I do not know its volume, but I think I have heard it's seven-to-ten gallons or so. I know that we can take two short-to-medium length showers before running out of acceptable temperature shower water. The electric element will not heat water as fast as the shower demands it. The diesel burner will heat water as fast as the shower and other systems demand it.
I believe the Aqua Hot operates mostly on 12v power - diesel pump, coolant pumps, etc. It's electric water heating element uses 120v power. For its protection, the Aqua Hot has a row of auto-type fuses enclosed in its exterior box in a fuse block.
I do not know which model of Aqua Hot your coach has, but our coach years are close - mine 2004, yours 2003. This is a link to the service manual for the Aqua Hot unit in my coach. All I know and more is contained in this service manual. I doubt your Aqua Hot would be much different than mine. The flow chart on page 11 may be fun to see.
http://www.aquahot.com/esource/ecom/esource/staticpages/documents/AHE-100-02S%20Service%20Manual%20Rev.%20B%209-27-2011.pdf
With noisy things off (TVs, radios, engines, etc.) I can hear the diesel burner fire up when I turn it on. Also, I can always go outside and check its exhaust. Obviously, if the exhaust is warm or hot, then the diesel burner has fired up. If the electric heating element is operating, then there is a significant amperage draw showing on the Leg 2 reading on my Aladdin electrical screen.
Thanks for link. I think mine is actually a Hydro-hot HHE-500. I'll go to the coach in a day or 2 and try to get it fired up.
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I think David has explained it pretty well. The setup on coaches can vary with year and model, but ours has all hydronic system switches together on one panel on the galley cabinet. As to whether there is exactly a tank involved within the unit or just heat exchange tubing, I'm not sure, but Orman and others here can address that.
As mentioned, the electric element is not up to the snuff that the diesel burner is, so use it more for maintaining heat status that has been attained by the diesel side, and to save diesel fuel when plugged into power, especially power you've already paid for with camp fees. The electric side won't keep up with the demands of a shower or perhaps a washing machine. And you should know that since there are two sides to your hydronic unit, heating hot water and heating your living area and bays, one of them must take priority over the other; hot water wins. If you take a shower or run hot water somewhere else, an AquaHot/HydroHot will circulate through that water exchange coil and usually shut down the coach heat in order to maximize and keep up with the hot water demand. Rather than water, the living space heat is provided by circulating boiler fluid/antifreeze through separate exchange coils and pumping it in loops to fan-forced heat exchangers at floor vents. We often notice our floor heat exchanger blowers stopping when we turn on a hot tap. Once that water demand stops, the vent fans kick on again. That may be less common on an Aqua Hot as opposed to our smaller Hydro Hot, but I'd assume it occurs on both.
The third switch on our panel is for circulating hydronically heated antifreeze through the engine to warm it up prior to starting when it's cold. Similarly, your engine coolant heat circulates automatically through your HHot so when you come off the highway to camp each day, the HHot is already warm and needs less diesel to initially run. It also assists the HHot if you use it to warm the rig's interior during travel in lieu of or in addition to the dash heater. Contrary to some confusion among new owners, the engine preheat switch is not involved with nor is it necessary to this automatic engine-assisted AHot feature; the switch allows the HHot or AHot to heat up the engine, not the other way around since the engine coolant circulates through the hydronic unit automatically anyway - no switch needed.
On ours at least, the diesel burner switch on the galley panel is also used to reset the unit if it should go into a fault for some reason, such as a low battery shutdown or other reason. Simply turning the diesel switch off for a couple minutes, then back on, may be all it takes to reset and get things going again. Otherwise you'll need to check the lamps on the HHot control panel in the HHot bay to get a clue as to what may be wrong.
Joel
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I believe there is a holding tank for hot coolant that heat exchanges with fresh water. I do not know its volume, but I think I have heard it's seven-to-ten gallons or so. I know that we can take two short-to-medium length showers before running out of acceptable temperature shower water. The electric element will not heat water as fast as the shower demands it. The diesel burner will heat water as fast as the shower and other systems demand it.
The Hydro-Hot/Aqua Hot does not have a fresh water hot water storage tank. It just has a coil in the burner/antifreeze fluid area that holds a quart or two of fresh water. The burner heats the water to near boiling and the HH has a mixing valve to mix cold water with it as it exits the unit to get it to temperatures that are safe. Therefore only a small volume of the superhot water is used at a time. And the electric element can keep up as long as the volume used is not too much. I have taken short showers with just the electric element. For more volume the diesel burner needs to be used and it is capable of producing continuous hot water.
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Jerry
Your diesel portion on Aqua Hot doesn't require 120v to operate. That being said, it does require 12 volt. However, the 120v electric heater portion will operate even if you had a low voltage 12 volt fault.
If you had power interruption with your 12 volt system such as turning off battery switches, then your AquaHot will be in LOW VOLTAGE Fault mode and you will have to hit the reset button on your mother board before your diesel portion of AquaHot will work.
You can tell if you are in Fault mode by switching on the diesel switch and if it glows then you are OK, if not then check the mother board and look for the Low Voltage red light. I use a tooth pick to push the reset switch.
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Yes... the electric element and diesel burner heat coolant in a "boiler tank." I believe within the boiler tank there are coils containing fresh water that exchange heat from the coolant to the fresh water in the coils. The boiler tank is of sufficient volume to store enough heat energy in the coolant to adequately warm enough fresh water for two shorter length showers in my coach... that is, without the diesel burner or electric element turned on.
Of note, when in cold weather - cold enough to freeze and break pipes - it is important to either have the fresh water coils preferably winterized or at least blown out, or otherwise adequately heated to prevent freezing. It is very expensive to replace or repair split coils in the boiler tank. It also can be dangerous because the coolant may mix into the fresh water rendering your water unfit to consume. Repairing the split coils, purchasing a rebuilt Aqua Hot or Hydro Hot unit if one can be found, or purchasing a new unit will cost from $7k to $12K I am told.
The service manual for your Hydro Hot, if you cannot find it, is at: http://www.aquahot.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/staticpages/documents/HHE-200-09E_HHE-500-09M_Service_Manual.pdf
Perusing through your unit's service manual I see it's nearly identical in function in all aspects to my Aqua Hot but a bit different in architectural design.
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Want to learn all to know about a AguaHot system just go here and do some reading. You can email Roger with any question you can think of and he will have the answer. Unit model # and serial #'s a must. Also download the complete manual for your unit, it will explain more about one then you will ever want to know.
http://forum.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/forum.php
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Thanks everybody. I've been studying the manuals you all pointed out to me. My concern right now is just making sure it works so I will turn it on and hope I don't have to go hunting for the mother board.
Jerry
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Jerry,
The thing to be sure of is that the system is full of antifreeze. Just because the expansion tank is full does not necessarily mean the main unit is full. You can remove the cap on the main boiler and dip a finger or paint stick to be sure. If the overflow container level moves up as you heat the boiler then it is full but you want to know that before you try and heat it up for the first time.
The radiator caps only last a couple of years and then may not seal well so you may want to check that out. Also the hose that runs to the expansion container tends to age and crack also. Just some maintenance items to keep an eye on. You would not want to run the burner unless the unit is quite full.
Later Ed
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I would just add that when I went to an Aqua Hot seminar in Gillette last June, the instructor said that blowing out the lines will not get all of the water from the coils, and it was highly recommended that the pink stuff be pumped through. (the pink stuff you buy at Wally Word, NOT the propylene glycol boiler anti-freeze)
Stan
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Hi Jerry
Give me a call if you need to discuss the H/H you own ,will help you out,
Also your 2003 will use Ethylene Glycol antifreeze, Not the Propylene Glycol
Good luck
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My 2005 Beaver Monterey has a HYDRO-HOT system that I love, but the exhaust outflow comes out the drivers side below the bedroom side window wafting diesel fumes into the bed room. I want to have the exhaust system re routed to the back o the coach. Does anyone have information on whether or not this alteration is possible? thank-you.
KC Snellgrove
2002 Beaver Montery OLIVIA - JEAN
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KC,
You might consider a Gen-Turi as an option, it's probably cheaper than re-routing your exhaust. It's not a permanent installation but installed only when you need it. I've only heard and read about the system I don't personally have it installed on my coach but will probably go this route if/when needed. I've heard that some campgrounds won't let you run the Hydro-Hot without them. I haven't experienced that problem yet but I can see where it would be an issue in close quarters. If I get it I'll probably try and come up with some way to secure it without punching new holes in my coach. Below is a link that will give you some information.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/gen-turi-generator-exhaust-system/14041
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Our HHot exhausts mid-coach streetside and was a concern for us at first because of course there are windows all along that side. The only time we (I) gripe, it turns out though, is when the unit cranks up while I'm outside doing something in the "water bay" - the exhaust port is directly beneath my face then. I discovered that it wasn't difficult to manage window/exhaust experiences by simply being aware of wind direction and which windows we opened. Even windows right over the exhaust port could be open if the wind was blowing right, but it could be a mistake to have a roof vent fan on, a situation which could depressurize the interior enough to actually draw fumes in through side openings. On the rare occasion when fumes were directed inside, we simply shut the offending window and/or opened others.
The genset exhausts up front streetside and if winds are right that also requires window diligence. But we find modern low sulfur, low particulate diesel to be less offensive than the diesel of some years ago, and even my odor sensitive wife can stand near that side of the coach and converse with someone with rare complaint when the genset or HHot is running. If she hadn't noticed that fact we likely would've never considered trading our old gas Pace Arrow for a diesel. That said, she would be the first to scream should any siphon in an open window, so window monitoring does take some priority. Lee is actually more likely to make a stink ;D about the smell if I spill a little diesel during fueling or while servicing the HHot, so I've learned to be Jonny-on-the-spot cleaning up such things.
We were complained to once in a Banff Natl. Park campground around 1986 when our gas genset fumes annoyed campfire sitters behind us. I wouldn't have run the genset except I'd been having trouble keeping the batteries up all day, and it was within the proper hours to run it. Many Canadian parks, public and private, at least back then had campsites that were exceedingly tight together; some you couldn't have put an awning out without hitting your neighbor's rig, and the wind however slight was such that the fumes would've reached someone nearby regardless. That was the only time anyone ever griped, but the experience early in our RVing life made us acutely aware of not disturbing others' enjoyment and peace. A Gen-Turi back then might have mitigated things a bit, by lifting fumes over everyone's head, and at least allowed me less fretting over whether the coach would crank over the next morning.
I too have considered the Gen-Turi option for the Beaver, but so far it's simply been easier and cheaper to micromanage window and vent use. Like Bruce, I'm not crazy about punching more holes in my coach just for a device I may infrequently need to use, and is just one more thing I'll have to mount and remove at each campsite (presuming it isn't travelworthy). Nevertheless, if you like fresh air while sleeping it is probably your best option. In our case, I commonly don't leave the diesel-side HHot on at night anyway. Hot water heats quickly from lukewarm in the morning and if it's cold enough outside to dictate the floor heat to be on at night, then a window ain't likely gonna be opened anyway, and if plugged in we use electric heat.
Joel
By the way, KC, is yours a 2002 or a 2005 Monterey? Your post and your signature line are different.
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Routing to the rear of the coach might cause too much restriction and back pressure on the burner. You would have to have a shop bent the pipe over your rearend and such. Something like the gen-turi looks like a better idea.
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My 2005 Beaver Monterey has a HYDRO-HOT system that I love, but the exhaust outflow comes out the drivers side below the bedroom side window wafting diesel fumes into the bed room. I want to have the exhaust system re routed to the back o the coach. Does anyone have information on whether or not this alteration is possible? thank-you.
There is several systems that has been rerouted to a different location, IE: the Alpine coach had theirs routed out the coach rear from the factory.
I believe the factory says 2 90 deg is the limit, But.....
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You don't have to "punch" holes in your coach to attach a Gen-Turi. I have used suction cups for going on seven years with no problems. Remember, the exhaust may not bother you but in close and sometimes not so close quarters it can bother your neighbors.
Marty
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I've used a Gen-Turi consistently for ten years. It keeps the fumes away from both us and our neighbors. I didn't punch holes. I used small stainless eyelets and screws carefully inserted into small pilot holes from a marine supply for the hooks.
Perhaps it is fanatical, but I have two so I can dry camp without "gassing" neighbors. My Quartzsite rally experiences have been significantly diminished due to the parking pattern putting a genset exhaust pointing directly at our door.
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Bill - I guess I don't understand. You say you didn't punch holes, but then you followed by saying you inserted eyelets and screws into small pilot holes. If you didn't punch holes, then you must be using existing holes. I am not seeing any existing holes on my coach over the generator and AquaHot exhausts that would work.
I like the suction cup idea. That would not be invasive and the cups would adhere to the coach siding, glass, etc. All I would need is to find a four inch diameter flat area on both sides of the Gen-Turi riser. Over time I suspect the suction cups could mark the siding, but those could be rubbed out periodically.
I purchased one Gen-Turi last year which I have not used yet. One problem I quickly found is the exhausts from the generator and AquaHot are too large in diameter for the Gen-Turi adaptor to fit over. I had a short tail pipe piece enlarged in diameter on one end to fit over the generator exhaust. So I can now use the Gen-Turi on the generator exhaust, but not yet on the AquaHot exhaust.
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Bill - I guess I don't understand. You say you didn't punch holes, but then you followed by saying you inserted eyelets and screws into small pilot holes. If you didn't punch holes, then you must be using existing holes. I am not seeing any existing holes on my coach over the generator and AquaHot exhausts that would work.
I was attempting humor! "Punching" a hole makes me think of jackhammer type solutions. Instead, I gently and carefully precision drilled the right sized pilot holes for stainless steel, as in expensive yacht, type screws. I used the so called "belt line" that hinges the bay doors.
Sorry for the confusion.
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That brings up one concern re. the Gen-Turi: doesn't it obstruct easy access to bays immediately above the genset (electric bay) and hydronic (water bay) exhausts?
Joel
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Bill - I was thinking about making a joke - as I will now - about "small pilot holes" or perhaps the infamous "heated peter."
Joel - Yes, it would on my coach. But the Gen-Turi is easily removed out of the way and easily put back into place. As a side note, why couldn't the Gen-Turi vertical riser occasionally be laid on the ground pointing either forward or backward. The exhaust pressure would tend to shoot the emissions away well past the end of the Gen-Turi tube. Obviously, this idea wouldn't work in some situations. But in a breeze, pointing the riser horizontally downwind may get the emissions well past the end of the coach and/or downwind past the last window. Just a thought...
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Over the July 4th weekend I noticed my Aqua Hot was slowly dripping from an apparent tube poking out the bottom of the unit. I checked the fluid level in the expansion tank and found it low, so I took off both the radiator cap and expansion tank cap. The radiator cap came apart into pieces in my hands. The radiator cap on the unit had a lever which I lifted prior to twisting and removing the cap. When I lifted the lever it simply came out and separated from the cap. I went to AutoZone on the afternoon of July 3rd and purchased a new 13 lb. radiator cap which did not have the lever on top. I put in about five quarts of 50/50 ethylene glycol mix to fill the unit under the cap and half filled the expansion tank. In this past (nearly) a month since the July 4th weekend I have added another total of ten quarts of 50/50 mix to fill the unit on two occasions. It seems to drip only after it gets warm/hot and it appears to be dripping more fluid now than it was. It stops dripping when the Aqua Hot is turned off and gets cooled down. It leaks when either the electric element or the diesel burner is on and the unit gets hot.
Question: Again, the new cap I purchased at AutoZone did not have the lever and now the Aqua Hot seems to be leaking more than before. Is there a "special" cap, like with the lever, that is required? Or is most any new 13 lb. radiator cap okay?
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Check your plastic line from the main tank to the expansion tank. These lines degrade quickly and must be replaced as they leak constantly. Henry
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David,
If the fluid is actually coming out of the tube that is a drain valve that is prone to leak. I have replaced mine with a brass ball valve which solved that problem. Orman will probably have parts that would work for that. If it is coming down the outside of the tube or the exit hole itself then there are other leak sources.
The cap although new should be rechecked and be sure the brass face of the cap receiver is clean. I use a slight amount of plumbers grease on that interface. The brass cap receiver can have a poor solder joint where it attaches to the stand pipe (it is a poor design and mine leaked there) and there is a fix for that. The lever on the cap is not required, it is just a pressure relief for checking the fluid.
Also check closely if the tube from the overflow tank is in tact, a small crack in that is common near the cap. A silicone hose is better there if you do replace that. I have replaced my cap with a 7lb version, that may help a little but it is still liquid under pressure and this type fluid wets well and will find a leak point if it can.
I also had a cracked fitting that leaked where one of the plastic zone pipes came into the manifold on the top. I point all these out so you can go on the hunt and see if your leak is a semi-easy fix. Beyond these leak points there are others that are more serious that Orman can describe and possibly repair. Hope this helps,
Later Ed
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Dave,
George is right about the plastic tube going bad very quickly as the heat gets to it. I replaced mine with a rubber vacuum hose which give much longer life.
But, if it is only leaking when it's hot it may not be the hose from the expansion tank.Assuming the pressure rating (13lbs) is correct, the new cap should be fine. The lack of a pressure relief lever does not impact the cap's functionality. Check to see that the lip of the opening to the boiler tank is clean and smooth so you get a good seal with the radiator cap. When it leaks, can you see any wet areas areas?
I suspect you are seeing more leakage after the cap replacement because the new cap is holding more pressure and thus forcing more fluid out the leak site when hot. If you can, pull the front and rear covers of the unit as that is where the leak is most likely occurring.
Steve
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When I was at the Horn Rapids RV Park over the July 4th week the dripping was coming from that drip tube - from inside the tube or on the outside of the tube I didn't check. I did not see any dripping from anywhere else, but the coach was level. At home here I park the Coach on my driveway which is sloped downwards towards the street. The coach is backed into the driveway so the fore end is lower than the aft end. My air leveling will take out about half the slope, but it will not bring the front end quite high enough to make it level. Here in my driveway the leaking is coming from two places - the dripping appears to be coming from both front corners - left and right - of the Aqua Hot box. The dripping - remember, only when hot - is enough to leave two wet spots about one foot wide and five to seven feet long as gravity makes the dripped fluid flow downhill towards the street.
Replacing the tubing to the expansion tank is a good idea because this leak came on only in the past month that I am aware of, and it only leaks when hot and coming under pressure due to the heated fluid. Also, removing the radiator cap and checking that the seal is clean and smooth is another good idea. I think I will also pick up a 7 lb. radiator cap to see if that makes a difference in the amount of leaking. I am thinking if there is a split elsewhere in a tube or fitting, then the lower pressure should reduce the amount on leaking.
I am at the end of a roof maintenance project and just started a bathroom remodel in my house, so have been using the motorhome shower (the other house bathroom has a tub, no shower)... and there is no one around here that has the know-how to repair an Aqua Hot, as far as I know. So... I'm trying to get by with the coach's shower for a month or so.
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Thanks for all the great info on this system. Two questions:
1. What did you all use to adapt the rectangular output vent to round Gen-turi? (photo would be great)
2. As a very new (2 weeks) repeat owner of a Beaver, first time with Hydro-hot system - is it normal to spit what looks and feels like diesel fuel out of the vent or is this a leaky connection somewhere?
Actually have a cake pan under the exhaust with about a pint or so of ??? after four days in freezing weather. Hope this is not normal and might have an easy fix. I am handy with a wrench but know this system is fussy and don't want to mess it up.
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Frank,
It is NOT normal for fuel to drip out the exhaust,
That is an indication of no flame,
Are you sure it is fuel dripping and not Coolant?
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I'm in North West Iowa and we have been below freezing for the last 10 days. I have the coach plugged in to 50 amp and the thermostats set at 45 degrees with the diesel burner on. So far the Aqua Hot has been doing a good job of keeping the temperature inside at 45 or above. I have noticed that there has been some oily substance (small amount) that has dripped from the exhaust pipe. I believe it is some unburned fuel residue that condenses in the exhaust pipe but not really sure. It has gotten as low as 3 degrees and today it up to 25 so far. It's supposed to get up to 40 on the weekend but we shall see. Hopefully all will hold together until December 1st when we head for Palm Desert and weather that I'm used to.
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Peter,
The small amount of residue that you are getting is probably water (a byproduct of diesel combustion) that is mixed with the soot in the exhaust, and it will freeze if you collect it and let it sit in freezing weather. However, if it does not freeze, it is probably coolant from a crack in the burner chamber because it is rare to have unburned diesel dripping from the exhaust if the burner is functioning. A cracked burner chamber is an expensive repair.
Gerald
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Thanks Gerald. I'll try collecting it and see what I find. Got my fingers crossed that everything keeps working the way it should in this cold weather!
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If you were unfortunate enough to have a cracked chamber it would leak readily into the combustion chamber under pressure and you should have ample steam generated creating some excess white exhaust. The real telltale would also be a continuing loss of antifreeze. I think Gerald is most likely right that it is a mix of soot and water condensation from the diesel by products of combustion.
Roger Berke has a Forum on the Aquahot and Hydrohot systems that you may want to join also. I am in a discussion on that forum about how much soot or residue on the ground is normal. One of the first signs of a partially plugged nozzle is soot and or oily residue on the ground from unburned fuel. Roger has posted some photos. I am still trying to sort out normal residue vs a real issue based on the residue that I get.
Later Ed
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I checked again today and am pretty sure it is water and soot as Gerald said. It seems frozen for the most part. With the ongoing cold weather a fair amount of diesel is being burned. As a side note, I added an anti gel additive to the fuel tank today since I had about 75 gallons of #2 diesel and 50 gallons of winter diesel in the tank. That should prevent problems until we leave on the 1st. I got worried that if the diesel gelled the Aqua Hot would stop working along with the engine and generator. Today is the first day above freezing in almost two weeks. Up to 33 degrees!
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Your evidence does indeed support Gerald's theory.
My experience on several occasions in blizzard conditions and long icy spells in camp also backs it up. The genset and hydronics exhaust pipes can be long. Exposed under the coach to subzero temperatures, the pipes get very cold. When warm exhaust heats up the ambient moisture in the air in the pipes, and it hits the cold interior pipe surface further down the pipe, it condenses out and begins running toward the end of the pipe, pushed along a bit by the exhaust flow. Along the way from initial condensing to the pipe end, the water collects soot from the inside of the pipe, and it drips out looking like some sort of petroleum byproduct.
It's basically just dirty water, which is why you're seeing it freeze. Nevertheless, it is good that you are alert to any apparent abnormalities and inquiring here. Obviously from others' input here, there can be circumstances more serious behind noticed effluent.
Joel
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Thanks for all the extra input. At 14 degrees F this morning, the liquid was definitely FROZEN leading me to belive I have an H2O leak in the boiler.... Have turned water pump and outside water (w/heat tape) off for now and will keep an I on the amount of water coming out of the exhaust port.
Looked up on aquahot.com and don't see that the boiler is a replaceable item, know it would be a job to swap out but everything else in unit is working just great.
Any ideas????
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Frank,
The boiler, being filled with antifreeze, would need constant replenishment if you were leaking antifreeze. you have not mentioned having to do that. If your antifreeze is staying in the boiler then that is not your problem. All of the water plumbing uses tankless coils around the boiler and have no means of contacting or crossing into the boiler itself. Are you adding antifreeze all the time without a leak showing up under the aquahot?
Later Ed
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Frank
If you have an internal water leak, You will have water pouring out the coolant reserve tank,
BTW, have you added any coolant to the system?
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Frank
After reading you earlier post ,I see you have a rectangular exhaust, The liquid you see IS VAPOR
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One of the bi-products of an oxidation-reduction chemical reaction is water, usually in the state of matter called vapor or gas. The combustion process in the AquaHot whereby diesel is combined with air and ignited is an oxidation-reduction chemical reaction. Therefore, there is a considerable quantity of water vapor made in the combustion process. I have no idea what percentage of the diesel burned becomes vapor, but I expect that percentage to be quite high. Given the length of exhaust pipe from the AquaHot's combustion chamber to the exit point I would guess almost all of the water vapor gets condensed into the state of matter called liquid.
In the case of your Beaver's big engine's combustion process there is much more vapor generated. But due to the short exhaust pipe and abundance of heat keeping the exhaust pipe hot, the water vapor exits the pipe in its unchanged state, as vapor. Thus you don't see liquid water dripping from that exhaust pipe... except perhaps immediately after starting the engine when the piping is cold.
As others have surmised here you likely do not have a coolant leak, nor a water leak, unless you are adding coolant or your water pump runs when it should not be running. The water exiting your AquaHot exhaust is most probably simply water vapor condensed into liquid water in the exhaust pipe which is then forced along the exhaust pipe by the exhaust flow.
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How do you excercise your HydroHot system once you've winterized? Don't you need water in the system? Mines been blown out and put to bed for the winter.
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You don't really need to "exercise" it while stored, Les. But if you wanted to, my understanding is that you can't hurt it doing so. That said, I hope you did more than just blew out the water. You cannot get every last drop out of an AquaHot or HydroHot that way, and the remaining drops can coalesce together to partially fill a remote tube section. If that freezes... :o
I used to just blow my systems out because that's what I was used to in our old Pace Arrow. But it didn't have a heat exchange unit where water can "reorganize" itself afterwards - just a simple water heater and a propane furnace. After a couple years doing that with the Beaver, the threat of $7k in repairs made a few bucks for 3 gallons of RV antifreeze and 20 minutes of my time sound like a cheaper preventive move than relying on just blowing things out. And I could quit running out to the coach and turning the system on, just in case, whenever the ambient temperature sank to 34.
Joel
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How do you excercise your HydroHot system once you've winterized? Don't you need water in the system? Mines been blown out and put to bed for the winter.
(I see Joel posted first!!)
I do not mean to be rude Les, but if all you did was blow it out, you may be in trouble.
Due to the design, small amounts of water can settle in the bottom of the looped coil that surrounds the boiler. If there is water there and it freezes, the entire unit will need replacement.
The only two practices for winterizing an AquaHot are to keep it warm or fill it with the pink RV antifreeze. (Gerald always suggests moving south along the I-10 corridor for the winter.)
If you don't like the pink stuff, you can minimize it's use. You can blow out the entire motorhome, then hook up to a bottle of antifreeze and run the closest faucet on hot until it flows pink. I don't think blowing it out protects the water pump or the washer/dryer either.
You can use the AquaHot for heating or "exercise" when it is winterized. In fact, I would suggest you turn it on, until you get some RV antifreeze in it.
Please call, email or post if you have questions.
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Thanks for the heads up guys, however, Being smarter than the average bear, I use a shop to winterize my coach(for liability reasons).
I don't know enough about these systems to take a chance on a mistake doing it myself.
I will query the shop Monday to check their procedures.
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Update, when I finally found the control panel behind an almost impregnable aluminum barrier installed by the dealer, I reset using a carved piece of fire wood (no tooth pick), the HH lit right off and ran with no smoke after about 30 seconds. Thanks for all the help.
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I just had my coach in a facility putting in new carpet and they didn't keep it plugged in and running as I
had instructed them to do and now there is a $ 7000.00 bill staring at someone.
John
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Update:
I confirmed the coach was winterized properly with antifreeze in the full system.
Phew!
Thanks for the heads up guys, however, Being smarter than the average bear, I use a shop to winterize my coach(for liability reasons).
I don't know enough about these systems to take a chance on a mistake doing it myself.
I will query the shop Monday to check their procedures.
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Just as conclusion to my original frantic post regarding possible leaks and other problems with my boiler.
Now in Flagler Beach FL and using mostly the electric element to keep the morning chill off. Only time running on Diesel is when taking twice a weekly shower.
Always starts and cycles; doesn't leak or spit H2O as it did at first in 20 degreee weather; lots of heat, but comes with plenty of diesel fumes and smoke.
Hope to replace filter and nozzle to improve fuel burning. Any additional advice is welcome...
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Frank,
This info is posted under an Aqua Hot thread and this info is for an Aqua Hot. On another post I saw Hydro Hot and little of this info would probably apply, so first thing is to sort out which heating unit type and which thread applies.....
For Aqua Hot:
Changing the nozzle is the first thing to do as well as clean the electrodes and set the gap. If the filter bowl has any debris or has not been recently changed then this would be a good time to do that also. Usually there is a metal gauge tool screwed onto the side of the burner. If you do not have one, buy one. Look at some photos/service manual as to where it gets placed to be sure you are gauging properly. The round plate behind the nozzle is supposed to be lose and float free, it moves to seal the air flow at the nozzle area, check for that. Danfoss nozzles are providing a better track record for being problem free according to Roger Berke who repairs these units and also runs a forum about these heaters, so I would buy that brand.
While in there remove the burner chamber insert and examine it to see if any deformities or melting has occurred and replace it if necessary. Brush and clean the carbon out of the chamber and exhaust area. When this all goes back together you need to be sure this all seals properly and no wires get pinched while mounting the burner. The banjo bolts should be snug but not over tightened.
At this point if the new nozzle, the fuel pump, bearings, and motor are all working properly you should have a clean burning exhaust with literally no smoke after the first minute or two of warm up. The nozzle flow/pattern, the motor speed, the fuel pump pressure, and proper air sealing of the burner assembly sets the air fuel ratio which in one form or another is your problem.
If the new nozzle does not fix your burner smoking issue then motor bearings (slowing down due to drag) and fuel pump pressure (needs a nozzle pressure gauge fixture) is what you probably need to check next. Orman or Roger would be good sources for wisdom and parts. These units will carbon back up quickly if they are not burning cleanly so you can waste effort cleaning what is not fixed.....Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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It has been awhile since Marty, Jay and I made a video on how to replace a fuel pump on a HydroHot. It you watch it, you can see how it comes apart, what the basic service parts are and what they look like.
https://vimeo.com/67970941 (https://vimeo.com/67970941)
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Nice video, one item to note. At the beginning you can see a rubber inlet boot on the bottom of the burner while on the bench. Roger Berke says to remove and discard those boots because they collapse with age and shut down much of the inlet air which will make the burner run very rich. Frank, you may want to check that yours has been removed and that you do not have that issue going on.
Later Ed
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Nice video, ....
Thanks Ed! I had fun making it with such great actors!
I keep thinking I'm going to do a few more. "Changing Fuel Filters While Stuck Alongside the Road", "Annual Hydro Hot Maintence" and "Lube Oil And Filter" have been on my list.
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Hey, Y'all come over to the Qsite rally, in Jan, looks to be a lot of fun,
Forecasted to have some great Gearhead sessions. You can ask some questions, We will have the answers. 8)
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I'm no Marty and don't have the entire support team shown in the video, but....
You've all given me the courage to at least follow the suggestions provided by Ed in his two posts and get a new Danfoss nozzle installed to start with. I'll make sure there is a electrode gauge tool before upsetting anything. Will be a while before getting to project but will keep you posted here.