BAC Forum

General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Larry Fisk on September 02, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Title: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 02, 2019, 02:36:12 AM
Well, after 14 years it appears our inverter is toast. No 50 amp power to the coach so we can’t run the AC’s. Inverter is not charging the batteries. It makes a clicking sound every 15 seconds or so like it’s trying to do something but nothing changes. I ran an extension cord to the fridge to make sure it stays cold. I also hooked up a battery charger to the house batteries. Now it’s sit and wait until Tuesday for a shop to open. I tried the Xantrex reset procedure suggested on here but it made no difference. It also appears the inverter keeps tripping a 30 amp, push pin breaker on the unit. Anyone know what this breaker does?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Larry Fisk
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 02, 2019, 02:16:47 PM
    Larry, Based on your statement "no 50 amp to your coach" it sounds like your issue is before your inverter/charger. The inverter/charger is getting its power from a 30amp circuit breaker inside the main panel breaker box in the closet or bedroom. The fact your air conditioners are not working suggests there is no 120 volts at the transfer relay or the power cord or pedistal. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 02, 2019, 05:12:04 PM
Thanks Fred, to clarify I do have 50 amp service at the power pedestal. The Aladdin indicates, "shore power selected" and 120 volts, but shows no amps draw. When I start the generator the Aladdin shows the transfer to the "gen-set" took place and also indicates 120 volts, but zero amp draw, which of course indicates power is present but not being used. I have checked all the breakers, 50 amp and the 30 amp panels. There are two breakers on the 30 amp panel that will not reset. But all other breaker are fine.
Also I thought power for the Air Conditioners did not pass through the inverter, so I can't understand why my AC's have no power?
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Steve Huber Co-Admin on September 02, 2019, 06:46:53 PM
Larry,
What 30 amp CBs don't reset? It sounds like you may have a transfer relay issue.
Steve
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 02, 2019, 07:03:10 PM
here's the power flow ==
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Gerald Farris on September 02, 2019, 08:53:13 PM
Larry,
From your description, the inverter is not your problem. You need to check for power at the transfer switch output, and if there is no power there, you probably have a bad transfer switch. When it comes to the breakers that will not reset, some breakers will not reset if there is no power to them which could be related to a bad transfer switch, but a short circuit will also cause a breaker to not reset, so carefully check for power along the power flow that Mike provided before you replace anything.

Gerald   
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 03, 2019, 02:20:40 AM
   Larry, You state that you have power to the air conditioners but they don't work. Have you checked for 120 volts at the circuit breaker? Is your coach 12 volt turned on? The thermostats need 12 volt to operate. Still sounds like a transfer relay issue. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 03:58:47 AM
Hey Friends, Sorry, I wandered off and didn't come back until now. Well, the problem has been solved and you were right! Today a repair tech tore into the transfer switch and Inverter and said both were damaged by what appeared to be a large power spike. The insulation on the wiring in the transfer case was melted. They were having power issues at the RV park we were at last weekend and brought in a large, CAT Generator. When I asked if that could have caused our electrical problem they said it did not affect the area of the park we were staying in. I think they were wrong. So, they are now installing a new transfer switch and Magnum Inverter. The transfer switch they are installing is the Surge Guard 41260. It does not interface with the Aladdin and that bugs me. Should I have them upgrade that transfer switch to one that works with the Aladdin? What do you think? I am going to try and add a picture of the fried transfer switch with this post. Thanks again, everyone for your Input!!
Larry Fisk
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Bill Sprague on September 06, 2019, 04:58:09 AM
What part does not work with the Aladdin?  Our amp sensors were behind the circuit breaker panel in our '04 Monterey.  They were protected by the tiniest fuses I've ever seen.  Maybe those fuses blew.
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 06:08:18 AM
The Surge Guard 40250 has a data plug in to interface with the Aladdin system. The new transfer switch does not have that feature, so you can’t see what power source is active or the volts and amp draw in the different legs. I could very well be wrong about this. I was just guessing that’s what the data port was for on the surge guard. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 06, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
I would stop the repair shop now and have them get the SurgeGuard 40250-RVC unit. The 41260 does not have the same level of "protection" as the 40250- and there's the lack of the data connection to the Aladdin you already know about.

Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 06, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
    Larry, The original is now a 41260-001 and retail is 343.99 and has only 2,600 joules of surge protection. the 40250 RVC has been replaced by the 40350-RVC and is 896.99 and also requires you change the remote panel read-out (40299) 100.69
The park may give you some push back unless you can prove you require the better model, I am not sure where the Aladdin
interface is located. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 06, 2019, 02:13:20 PM
   Foot note: After looking at the old transfer relay, If the park sent power down the "neutral" there could be some collateral damage in your coach. Make sure they inspect the air conditioners, televisions, microwave and anything that has a PC board in the loop when on shore power. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 02:39:43 PM
Thanks! I am going to ask them to replace the transfer switch with the upgraded one. Thanks again for all your help.
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 06, 2019, 03:01:24 PM
On the Aladdin sensing - The two interface drawings I have show one with the "data cable" to the Transfer Switch, and the other interface looks to go to a separate box with voltage/current sensors.

It shows the first type (data cable style) goes to the Aladdin "ATS" box, and the other style goes to an Aladdin "AC" interface box.

To add to the confusion, my coach has the "ATS interface" module, but I don't see (can't find) a Data cable coming out the Transfer Switch.

So, I think it is a good idea to have the "full protection" SurgeGuard unit, but you may not need the data cable to have Aladdin read the voltage/currents in the Transfer Switch (do you have this data cable now)?
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 06, 2019, 03:54:07 PM
   Wow Mike, That sure is confusing. I wish I was better versed in Alladdin interface locations. It definitely states that it goes to a "16620290" transfer switch. Not real sure who the manufacturer of that is. The RJ-12 comm line port on the 40350 RVC is dedicated to the remote display. I would be a little cautious plugging the Alladdin into that port. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 04:06:14 PM
Thanks Mike, I didn’t make them very happy, but they are going to pull the surge guard 41260 out and replace it with the 40350. If I don’t need the data port that’s okay. At least I’ll have much better protection for the coach electrical.
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 06:47:54 PM
Is there anyway to make my new Surge Guard 40350 RVC communicate with the Aladdin? I just thought I would check and see if someone had a work around for the data connection.
Thanks again!
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 06, 2019, 08:24:33 PM
Are you sure the current SurgeGuard in your coach has the data cable?

I'm going to take a closer look at mine (also a model 40250) when I get home, but I don't recall seeing a data cable when I had the cover off to check the tightness of the lugs, and the photo (view of unit mounted to rear wall of last basement compartment) I have of it doesn't show a data port on the output cable side (as shown in the manual).

And my Aladdin shows the voltage/current data for the incoming power and generator (so the data is coming from somewhere).
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 06, 2019, 09:13:43 PM
Interesting Mike, mine shows No AC on the Aladdin. I do show battery information but no 120 information. They are installing the new one right now. I’ll ask the tech if he noticed a cable. I do have the ATS module but there is no cable feeding it.
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 06, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
    Larry,  I revisited your post #14 and was looking closely at the 120 volt module wiring diagram. I believe it could be getting its info from the main circuit breaker box. 1- the comm cables are only 15' long. 2- the breaker box has shunts on the red & black wire I believe for reading amp current.  The dc module only has 3' comm cable so it should be somewhere near the house batteries. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 06, 2019, 11:25:33 PM
   I mean Mikes post #14. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 06, 2019, 11:49:42 PM
Interesting Mike, mine shows No AC on the Aladdin. I do show battery information but no 120 information. They are installing the new one right now. I’ll ask the tech if he noticed a cable. I do have the ATS module but there is no cable feeding it.
Larry

I just double checked my Transfer Switch (as best I could with the limited space and visibility) and there is no data cable coming out of it (I don't even see a data port). Maybe that data port was an option for the TS).

I have a photo of my tank area where the Aladdin modules are located - and like you, I have the ATS module but I don't see anything plugged into it either.

I do recall Steve or Gerald or someone more familiar with these coaches saying the voltage/amperage is read off the "feed wires" at the main circuit breaker panel. If that is the case, and your not seeing any data in the Aladdin display perhaps you need to remove the CB panel cover and have a look in there (probably not a bad idea anyways if you had a large voltage surge)

BTW - just took the covers off the inside breaker panels to see if there was anything in there for measuring current or voltage - and there is not.
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Bill Lampkin on September 07, 2019, 12:07:08 AM
Larry, I hope the campground makes you whole! Somebody put line voltage on the neutral when they hooked up that generator, that's what it looks like to me.

Anyway, my question is, isn't the Surge Guard designed to prevent damage caused by spikes like this?
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Fred Brooks on September 07, 2019, 12:49:22 AM
   Bill, the Surgeguard 40350 RVC will NOT engage the contactor if there is power present on the neutral. Fred
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 07, 2019, 12:53:55 AM
UPDATE - I was wrong.

There is a data port on the Surge Guard 40250 model. And there is a cable plugged into the Aladdin ATS module.
It just took a little effort to get in position to see everything.

The data port is on the Transfer Switch "output" cable side near the mounting tab.
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 07, 2019, 01:05:14 AM
Thanks everyone! They connected the data cable but unfortunately the surge guard speaks a new language. I was told by their tech support I would need to purchase the remote for the 40350 and install it if I wanted the data from that unit. At least I have a lot more protection with this unit instead of the 41260.
Larry
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Mike Shumack on September 07, 2019, 02:18:14 PM
I guess you could not the get the older/original model 40250.
I saw a couple for sale on the Internet for around $650, so it looks like they are still available.

At least you have the model that offers the most protection. Did you check the rest of the coach electrical to see if anything else was damaged? Hopefully the Transfer Switch did its job and protected everything downstream (while destroying itself in the process).
Title: Re: Xantrex Inverter trouble
Post by: Larry Fisk on September 13, 2019, 07:52:28 PM
Sorry for the late response, Mike! They did check the downstream wiring and it all looked okay. The new transfer switch and inverter have been working great. I guess after 14 years things do wear out. Thanks again for all your help!
Larry Fisk