BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Emert on July 18, 2017, 09:38:15 PM
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Saw this today. https://www.newyorkbussales.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/16-0325-1_cat_ard_cleaner_replacement.pdf. It is about cleaning injectors. Should I be using this or something else to keep my C-12 happy? Thanks
Jerry
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That cleaner is not for the injectors. It's for the ARD nozzle in the aftertreatment exhaust. There is a special port in the back of the engine to add the nozzle cleaner. I believe it is only for 2007 and later C7s and C9s.
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ARD cleaning info published in 2010: https://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/ptu/pdf/c7s_nozzle_cleaner.pdf
This probably applies to HEUI engines built in 2007 and later (e.g. C9 425hp).
Steve
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I have been putting a quart of Lucas Diesel Treatment in the diesel tank with every fill. For our coach every fill is about 500 miles and 100 gallons of diesel... which Lucas prescribes - 1 quart treats 100 gallons of diesel.
I started this hoping to improve the mpg, but I cannot cite statistics showing an improvement. What I have noticed is an almost complete lack of smoking by the generator and AquaHot though. If I watch their exhausts closely, then I can see a bit of dark smoke when they start. But the smoke is gone within 5 seconds.
One gallon of Lucas is about $30 at Walmart. That adds about 7.5c per gallon to my fuel cost... which is 2.5% to 3% added to my fuel bill using $2.85 diesel. And Lucas claims to add cetane for lubricity and helps keep the injectors clean. So even if it doesn't do anything, I feel like I am being proactive. lolol
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Jerry,
Like Chuck said, the link that you posted is for an ARD cleaner and your coach does not have an ARD system.
As for the rest of your question about an injector cleaner or fuel additive, in my opinion the best that you can hope for with a diesel fuel additive is to save enough on fuel cost to pay for the additive. Therefore, I do not use any fuel additives. However, if you are having an issue with microbe (diesel algae) growth in your fuel, a biocide fuel additive is very desirable.
Gerald
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Thank you all for your replies and patience with my questions. Still trying to learn.
Jerry
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I added a quart of the Lucas additive to a 100 gallon fill up for the first time yesterday and today when I started the engine, I noticed a little white smoke in the exhaust at idle. Is this normal?
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Bob, not going to get into any debate about someone who maintains there Cat Engine but
Caterpillar high pressure injection system on electronic engines does not need to add
anything to fuel to keep injectors clean. Your injection system ( Caterpillar ) does not
Recommend anything other than anti jell to fuel for operation in cold weather. Yes there
are many company's that sell just about anything you want for fuel systems. Adding
these fluids to diesel systems changes two things, the moving parts in injectors gets its
Lube from the diesel fuel, thin down the diesel fuel than sticking injectors can come into
play. Changing the cylinder temperature can come into play. Both Caterpillar and Cummins
share the same views on this. If you would like, I can provide technical information and
Post on Ask Dave .. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Lest we forget, the same diesel and additives go through both the generator and Aquahot. They have injectors too.
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Gentleman, David is correct diesel fuel is used in other areas of your motorhome and thank
you for bringing that point out. The only problem we are not talking about the same thing.
Caterpillar has a very high injection pressure on all electronic engines, what does this mean.
On Caterpillar C-12 injection pressure 30,000 psi, Caterpillar 3126 & up heui systems has
23,500 psi injection pressure which brings a complete burn of fuel injector puts out and clean
exhaust. The gen set and Hydo hot or diesel fuel heating system is completely different where
Yes they burn diesel fuel injected at very low pressure, and yes injector cleaners help keep
exhaust carbon buildup reduced. Getting in technical information and spec on this subject
there is a clear different direction in, not all diesel injection systems are the same. The technical information Caterpillar and Cummins will be posted on Ask Dave for members to each to
choose direction they would like. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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So, is that a yes? - (that this Lucas additive could cause the engine to put out a faint white smoke at idle?)
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Bob, need to answer that question in two ways. First the smoke you mentioned how
long has your engine been running from startup and how cold is it over the night. The
smoke should clear out after 15 minutes if engine is still in the cold mode on engine
ECM and no smoke. Second you did not say how long smoke is present. The oil additive
mixed with fuel should not make engine smoke. Engine cold will smoke until engine is warmed
up and out of cold mode. Last if if any air present within the fuel system on suction side of fuel
Transfer pump engine will smoke until transfer pump recharges fuel system while running.
If engine smokes going down the road and does not clear up, than remove rubber boot that
Connects direct to the center of your turbo charger. At this point shine light into center opening
Of turbo charger and what your looking for is engine oil present on turbo housing and impeller.
Check both turbos, if engine oil is present seal on turbo is bad and pumping engine oil into
The charged air cooler. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Just added CAT and Cummins guidance on use of additives, courtesy of Dave Atherton. They can be found in ASK DAVE under CAT Engine Concerns. BAC Web site > Technical Support > Ask Dave http://beaveramb.org/acadp_listings/fuel-and-oil-additives/
Steve
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Sorry for the late response. Been out of town on business. Thanks, Dave and others. The white smoke occurred immediately upon cold start up on a day that had extremely high humidity and temperatures in the low 100s. Discharge looked more like thin smoke to me than water vapor, but I guess the best news is it has not repeated, which supports the water vapor argument. I am going to check the turbo chargers this week and will update the thread. Thanks again to all.