BAC Forum
General Boards => Sources for Suppliers, Parts and Maintenance Materials => Topic started by: KC Snellgrove on October 14, 2015, 08:06:15 PM
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Good Day fellow BEAVERS! I have a 2005 Beaver Monterey coach with 3 slides. The passenger large slide when retracted eases out about an inch, I have been told it is likely the SOLENOID VALVE. Where would I find this item on the coach? They are spendy little items and are on back order through Beaver in Bend. I am going to try and order through Monaco. Any ideas are muchly appreciated. Thank you, ???
KC Snellgrove
2005 Beaver Monterey Olivia Jean
38 foot CAT 400
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Under the front right corner of the coach, in the vicinity of the entry step.
You should see 8 solenoids on a common manifold, with a tank and pump motor. The solenoids are the smaller cylindrical parts in the diagram. Three slideouts have 1 "In" and 1 "Out" solenoid each, and they are opposite each other on the manifold. Your slideout with the bed in it is probably electric and so no hydraulic solenoids are used for it. The 4th set of solenoids on the manifold, as I understand it, are for those rigs with the hydraulic leveling jacks option.
In the last few days there was another thread here where the poster, Roger Rempe, included a photo of his: http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,5076.0.html
Joel
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KC,
Order the solenoid valve from HWH direct, that's who all the rest will get them from as they are the co that made the unit.
http://www.hwhcorp.com/
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Just had one replaced, and luckily my repair shop had one on hand. The part was $196.00.
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As I've mentioned in other related threads, our front curbside slide creeps out about once a year, with the coach just in storage, power off. It hadn't done it for awhile, but a couple weeks ago I put all slides out for exterior cleaning, then back in, all systems and mains off again. Yesterday I walked past the rig and noted the slide was out at the bottom a half inch. Though it creeps out on occasion, I'm not so sure a new solenoid is necessary.
In the past I've just turned on the 12v. and popped the thing out 3-4 inches, and back in, and it's always stayed put. It seems to be just a matter of the rare imperfect O ring-sealing upon retraction, that lets a smidge of fluid by that with time gives the slide a chance to relax out a little. A bump out and back in seems to reseat the ring, at least so far.
If that routine's not holding for you, then a new solenoid is one resolution. It's been awhile since I've read about it, but I recall some have disassembled the offending solenoid, cleaned it, and replaced O rings.
Joel
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Thank you all so very much. I will get out there tomorrow am to check it out. As for the solenoids they are on back order several weeks. Cannot get them..awh.
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Here's the way I think things are arranged for those of us with several slideouts, as partially plagiarized from another resource:
The slides are numbered one, two, three, four in a counter-clockwise direction starting with the one behind the driver. So if you had 4 slides hydraulically operated then the streetside frontmost is #1 and the front one on the curbside is #4.
The hydraulic solenoid valves are numbered similarly starting with the set closest to the pump and moving outward. So the set closest to the pump would be for slide #1 and the set furthest away is for slide #4.
The wrinkle for us with 4 slides is that slide #2, usually the bed, is electric and that implies slide #3, curbside bedroom scissors-type, would be run by the second solenoid set. Set 3 would then be for the curbside front slide. I think solenoid #4 is for hydraulic jacks if you have them.
Joel
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Hi I have a similar problem on my 2005 3 slide Monterey. I believe that there is also a check valve in the system, somewhere. I find that I can create the problem if I do not move the slide 100% and out and build a little pressure then retract it. When the slide does creep cycling it all the way out and back reseats something and it functions fine until I don't completely cycle it again. Also in the hydraulic loop when creep occurs, I think there is some diagnosis required as to which solenoid may not be sealing or if it is the check valve. You might want to look at page 8 of the attached document if this is the system that you have.
Just a thought.
Best
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Joel,
I have a 4 slide 2005 Monty and have a creeping bedroom slide, but mine seems to be attributable to a leaking solenoid evidenced by a recent puddle of hydraulic fluid on the ground to the left of the front step. I wasn't sure which one was leaking so I used Gunk and my pressure washer and to clean the manifold. Reading your helpful posts I was expecting to find four solenoids each for in and out including my hydraulic jacks, but my rig only has three of each. After a bit of head scratching it occurred to me my RVA jack system is completely independent from the HWH slide system with it's own pump, reservoir and solenoids. Nothing is a given with these custom coaches, year, model and options all can and will throw us curve ball.
And then there is the unexplainable; it's been over a month and no leak is evident and the slide is not creeping. I didn't know Gunk was a sealant, go figure. Now if only the Hydrohot will fix itself and fire up. The adventure continues! Happy holidays to all.
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On our 2005 Monterey, the bedroom slides are electric, so no hydraulic solenoid. We have only 4, 1 in for curbside front slide, 1 out for the same; 1 in for the street side front slide, 1 out for the same. We have air leveling only, so no hydraulics for any jacks.
Stan
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Roy, there is more than one possible "puddle source" up front. I once thought one I found was from a fuel tank vent, after I peered underneath and saw a nearby rubber tube end hanging down and coming forward from over the tank area. Turned out it was from a poorly secured oil filter that a service facility had replaced not long before on the generator.
Leaking fluids on a vehicle get sprayed around chassis parts on the road, then drip from wherever they collect the most. If the puddle is fairly clear, then the source is not chassis dirt-contaminated, close by, and less likely an oil or diesel, so your little hydraulic module (tank, pump motor, and solenoid manifold) is suspect indeed . If the puddle is dark, I'd check other things first. The creeping bed slide implies solenoid set #2, and using the owner's manual instructions judiciously, I'd consider checking the torque on the solenoid nuts and perhaps the tank top and any hose clamps/connections; solenoid failures are more commonly internal, with no external evidence other than a creeping or inoperative slide.
Stan, I assume from your comments and yours being a Laguna IV that you have a curbside bedroom wall slide, but it would be the first I've heard that wasn't hydraulic. Obviously with only 2 solenoid banks, that must be the case, so thanks for upgrading my mental encyclopedia on the subject; not that it is all that complete a resource to begin with ;) .
-Joel
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Joel,
Thanks for your input. Given my wife's been ill we haven't had the rig out for a while. I am confident the leak is/was from slide pump and/or related parts. The puddle was directly beneath it about a foot in diameter immediately behind the front cap. I suspect if I run the slides in and out several times the leak will reappear and perhaps I can rule out the solenoids as the source.
You mentioned fuel tank vent hose as a possible source so here is another question. I topped off my fuel tank and shortly after noticed diesel leaking on the ground at a fair clip. Upon investigation my vent hose was hanging down the forward side of the tank and was the leak source because the fuel level was above the tank in the fill hoses. So, is this hose suppose hang down and shouldn't it have a one way check value in hose end, if so? I guess this vent hose could have been suspended above the fill ports, but where exactly and how is the mystery, any thoughts? I have filled the tank to the same level many times in past without this issue so something has definitely changed.
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Roy, I'll leave that one to Gerald who as I recall was in on a previous discussion about this and was fairly well-versed about it. Seems like there was mention of a check valve, but you might also run a search here for that thread. My experience on this topic is not sufficient re. the diesel coach compared to our old Pace Arrow and its fuel tank/hose issues.
-Joel
addendum: I think if you fill up from a cold underground tank and then the coach heats up from travel and/or exposure, but you don't go very far in the interim, the diesel may expand enough to be forced up the necks and vent. But I'm only speculating. I've come to the point where I try not to use high-speed pump nozzles due to the foam-back anyway, and am more attentive not to fill too far with slow-speed pumps. Topping off just before storage is okay to prevent water condensation, but not so much when the weather is hot. Fuel going from 54 degree earthbound tanks to trapped in a 90+ degree ambient coach tank I would expect to expand and go somewhere.
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I found threads re the Monterey fuel tank vent on our forum and those on RV.net. Looks like a mixed bag on the solution. I had purchased a one way fuel check valve used on ATV's that looks like it will plug into the dangling hose. I'll give it a try; just hoping the air flow will keep up with diesel flow and not create a vacuum.
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Probably should have started a new thread for my fuel vent hose leak, live and learn.
A middle of the night epiphany - a one way check valve is/was a BAD idea! I can only speak for my Monterey, but given the fuel fill hoses enter the tank about a third of away below tank top I thinking all fuel added above these inlet hoses will in fact pressurize the air in the top third of the tank with a check valve in place. This pressure will increase with a change to a lower altitude or increasing ambient temperature causing lowered fuel capacity, hose leaks or a diesel fuel shower if a fill cap is removed, no thanks.
Since I've never noticed this problem previously and the dangling vent hose seems to be the beaver norm I apparently really over-filled my tank and didn't drive far enough to use the excess fuel stored above the tank in the fill hoses, thus the leak on ground. Of course driving with an over-filled tank results in diesel spray emanating from the vent hose which is not desirable either.
The obvious solution is not to top off the fuel tank, but I parked on an incline at the pump (rig front a couple of feet higher than rear) with the fuel flow set to low expecting the automatic shutoff to do it's job; too full. An alternative, as mentioned elsewhere, is to elevate said vent hose so the high point is about equal to fill hoses high point. To keep dirt etal out of the hose end should turn down.
I will attempt to reroute and perhaps lengthen my vent hose unless someone can come up with a better solution. Usually my middle of the night ideas are on the mark, hope his is case.
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Roy, while reading your posts, I had an idea that flashed through my head, when you re-route the hose, suppose you put a loop in it? A loop would/could act like a check valve but not with the quite the same effect? In reading your post, I had a problem filling the coach from the passenger side, I think, it's possible the vent hose could be my problem also.
Dale
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Dale,
Appreciate your thought about looping the vent hose which I think would work well if the top of loop is above fuel level in the fill hoses. Since I don't think siphoning will be an issue as long the end of the vent hose has a short turndown and I probably won't need the loop.
I agree a restricted vent could cause fueling problems once the tank fill level is above the fill hose level at the tank, perhaps the final 30 plus gallons. Worth a look and good luck.
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Not all coaches have the same fuel tank vent system, so no single answer pertains to all coaches. There have been many design changes over the years of production, but most coaches use a vent hose with a specially designed check valve at the end of the hose that has a float in it. The check valve will readily pass air, but if liquid fuel reaches the valve, the float rises and blocks the hose to prevent a leak. This type vent system only works as designed if the valve is in the upright position. So if your vent valve is dirty, missing, or miss positioned you can have fueling problems or a vent leak.
Also most coaches only have one vent, so if your coach is harder to fuel from one side than the other, the problem is in the long fuel fill hose. On many coaches, especially in the SMC era, the fill hoses have several restrictive bends and they enter the tank at a low position so a slow fueling rate is unavoidable.
Gerald
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Gerald,
Thanks for expanding on this fuel vent issue. Apparently my 2005 Monterey did not come with a check valve, just an open hose hanging down from the top of the tank. A couple of later model Monterey owners on RV.net confirmed the same arrangement. I think my solution will work for my coach. I don't know what model coach Dale Walker has, and since he implied only his passenger side fill port was slow I suspect your explanation is correct.
Now for the slide solenoid leak that doesn't leak. Sure enough Joel Ashley was right about the leak source. Turns out the leak is diesel fuel coming from this vent hose, which I had temporarily shoved on to the top of tank thinking it might have been siphoning. Well today I overfilled the fuel tank again (OMG) and discovered the excess fuel now runs off the tank top and travels down the coach framework directly to the slide hydraulic pump area. Now I am having a heck of time locating the hose, hindered by extremely tight space at the top of the tank; tried a coat hanger to no avail. Fired the Cat up, put on fast idle, charged the batteries and burned excess fuel. Until I get this vent issue resolved I'll be carrying a fuel tank and a siphoning hose cause I'm really tied of the mess.
Well believe it or not I have had some successes. I installed a 16" electric fan on the AC condenser, works great, psi was well over 300 and hot until until hydraulic fan kicked on. Added LED TV's front and rear with a sound bar system, replaced the old microwave/convection oven, mounted my old RF Mogul satellite and replaced it with the Eagle upgrade, replaced headlights with Mueller modification and replaced all marker and tail light lens. Many thanks to all this forums contributors and perhaps I'll get to meet some of you at a rally soon. 2016 will be our 44th year of continuous motorhome ownership, but this Beaver continues to be a fun and trying challenge for my fading brain.
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Gerald, isn't the valve you refer to as "at the end of the hose" actually at the tank end of the hose where it can be configured in an upright position, or am I thinking wrong? That would explain why Roy isn't finding one at the free end he tucked away. His symptoms would imply the valve's float may be stuck open (isn't floating up). Unfortunately it probably means the repair will require emptying and dropping the tank.
Roy, though I initially thought my oily spray and puddle were from the hose, it was actually from a loose genset oil filter. Just points up how tricky it can be to identify a leak source when highway wind spreads the evidence around.
Joel
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Joel,
No, the valve is normally at the outer end of the vent hose, and therefore the need to keep it upright for best results to prevent leaks from the vent. On a lot of coaches, there is not enough room between the top of the tank and the coach floor to install a vent check valve upright. However, anything that would prevent siphoning or draining fuel through the vent hose without restricting the venting process will work fine. You can lengthen the vent hose to terminate it high enough above the tank, reroute it as necessary, or stop squeezing every drop of fuel in the tank and leave a small air pocket in the tank when fueling.
Gerald
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Question I had the 2 front solenoids replaced on my 06 Thunder last year now the tank which feeds the solenoids has developed a stress crack and is leaking is it possible to get a replacement tank as the way Beaver mounted the tank it has no physical support and it is hanging on by the solenoids, Now the generator comes out about an inch after a day or two.
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Paul,
I am not sure about the availability your reservoir, but I believe that the hydraulic pump and reservoir assembly on a 06 Thunder are from HWH. If so, I would just call technical support at HWH to find the availability of the reservoir and any seals or O-rings needed for it's replacement.
Gerald
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With my 06 PT the tank is mounted to the flat plate and the manifold and motor are mounted to it, if you can get HWH to ever call you back you might be able to get a new tank. Another option would be to remove the unit and have a welding shop weld up the one you have. With the gen slide when you bring it in bump the switch in and out a couple of times, seems to work keeping the slide in.