BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Paul Stark on April 08, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
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Have a storm coming in and my wife tried to bring the slide in (high wind and rain) and it stuck with the kitchen all the way in and the living room out about halfway. The coach is a 2005 Patriot Ticonderoga. Looking under the slide it appears to only have a control track on the living room end. Will not go either way. Ideas?
We are parked 7 miles south of Quartzsite, AZ on private property, about a mile from Highway 95 to Yuma.
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If you need help from someone who I believe has Beaver maintenance/repair experience, then you might call Accurate RV in Parker. The Accurate RV main office is (or at least used to be) in Bend, OR. I used them in Yuma a few years ago when they had their 5th wheel here while wintering and working out of Yuma. Maybe they can get you going...
http://www.accuraterv.com/
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Paul,
Have you checked your owners manual for instructions to bring slide in manually? Attached is the page of interest.
Steve
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I spoke with Ty Kelly about phone Service support (855) 478-1470 give them a call be sure to tell the girls you have an emergency or ask for Sean who may be working from home if anyone can help you Beaver Coach Sales will be able to help.
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Paul
How did you make out
Do you know what model of system you have
If it is an HWH I may be able to help you troubleshot the system
But for now if you release the control valves as stated in the manual you should be able to manually push the slide back in
If it is racked that badly it may be difficult the get to move initially .
Start by pushing the kitchen side back out to help take the rack out of the room then once you have it even again push the whole room in evenly this may require several people to push and be careful not to push on the out side flange areas.
But first look around for hydraulic leaks you don't want to push it back in if you have a blowin hydraulic line unit you contain the spilled oil.
It would appear from you description that there has been a malfunction with the anti rack valve or cylinder.
I am HWH factory trained and have a set of manuals to help troubleshoot the problem.
Eric
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Eric, Paul never said what happened when he hit the slide button, did the pump run or just a click or nothing. I didn't know there was a anti-rack device in these units. My 06 Patriot Thunder has accumulators to equalize the rams.
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Hi Paul,
How did that work after I talked with you. I did finally receive the other photos. As it states in the sheet that Steve sent, once you remove the reservoir cap, the hex opening in the cap end fits the 1/4" nuts on the end of the solenoids. Loosen all 4 of them 4 1/2 turns to release the pressure in the slide out cylinders. Either turn the 3/4" drive nut in your photo to retract the room or get 4 to 6 men to push the room in. Sorry it is storming, Hope this helps, Fred
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Okay, I had to go get some tools (60 miles roundtrip). I released 4 release nuts on the Hydraulic pump. Not sure if I got the reservoir cap off as if can't see the top of the reservoir, there are two nuts on the top (see attachment). No luck with the end of the shaft that has a nut on it (tried a breaker bar and also tried a 1/2 in impact wrench). No luck with a pipe wrench on the other end.
the reason I'm not sure about the reservoir cap is that the two bolts look like they might be caps for some kind of reservoir, but neither looks like the cap in the manual, i.e., with a release nut wrench?
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Lee
In the HWH system with twin cylinders they used either a attacking cable or a sycronizing cylinder the synchronizing cylinder can be identified by the shaft that sticks out the end of it and number of hoses connected to it usually three with one of those in the center of the cylinder this system actually uses valving inside the sync cylinder to balance pressures on the two cylinders.
If the room can be manually moved all the way to the stowed position or the out position the valves could be close again and if you run the pump up against the stall for two or three seconds and then move the room out about six inches and back closed and against the stall again several times .this should equalize the sync cylinder.
Then move the room all the way out and repeat the same procedure and all should be good.
Hope this helps
Eric
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Lee
In my earlier post it was supposed to read that HWH used either a anti racking valve or a sycronizing cylinder
Instead somehow the auto correct on this thing turn that into attaching cable.
Sorry for the confusion.
Eric
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Eric, Interesting, how does a anti-racking valve, keep the slide from racking?
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Okay, about my 4th time crawing under the front of the coach, I actually frount the reservior cap and opened it. Went through trying to move the slide again, same results.
Eric
I'm sure the hydralic system is a HWH system, can't get into a position to find a model/sn, but we had the HWH system on another coach (see correct pictures attached). We would really like to get to a slide in position as we were planning on heading to home tomorrow after my wife quits work. She took Friday off and her shift ends at 3pm, have to travel over weekends because of her job.
Fred
Don't have 4 or 6 men available. I do have a Kubota tractor with an 8 ft 6x6 attached to the bucket that I could wrap in a couple of moving blankets and try to move the living room end in. No luck with anything so far.
Lee
When Eric asked that question we tried it and it sounded like a normal extention was going to happen.
Someone suggested Accurate RV and I tried to contact them, but too late in the day. Will try them in the morning, be nice if they could help as they are only about 50 miles away. Recieved a couple of other places to call and will try those also, looking for ideas.
Thanks to everyone who is trying to help, be pretty lonely without you!
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Paul
Sorry for the delay I just woke up its 8 here and Ontario Canada
The black knob on the right side of the first picture is the vent cap on the inside of the vent cap should be a hex that matches the end of the solenoid nuts if not you can use a quarter inch socket to turn each of the nuts on the end of the solenoids 4 and 1/2 turns maximum do not go beyond 4 and 1/2 turns which this will damage the solenoid valve.
Once you have both the valves open for the swag then you can try to wreck the room back into square but first a question there isn't a possibility that the driver seat is jamming the slide at the forward end is there.
If necessary use your manual rack under the slide to try to manoeuvre the slide 2 square position.you may have to work the slide out a little ways to get it to unjam the game look for something that has jammed the slide.
Another question has this slide been giving you any problem in the past IE does it not want to go in square or when it does go in does one corner touch first.
If you can manage to get the room square game I going to go straight back in then you may be able to close the solenoid valves a game and run the slide all the way out when it hits the oak position let it run against all bring it in about 6 in and then back out again stole several times this will try to equalize the synchronizing cylinder if it does equalize and synchronize properly you should then be able to bring the slide in normally but a game check to make sure there is not something catching or jamming the slide as this will cause synchronizing cylinder 2 move to one side and not work properly.
feel free to give me a phone call at area code 613-374-3194
Good luck
Eric
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Lee
An antique rocking valve is a mechanical valve tries to balance the cylinder pressures it actually allows one cylinder to move ahead of the other slightly when they get out of balance there is a bar that runs across between the two cylinders that touches the front of a pin in the auntie rocking valve when it pushes the pain it actually will a spool valve inside the belt that actually will change where the hydraulic fluid is sent to one cylinder the other to keep the cylinders moving evenly
hope this helps
Eric
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Paul, I have attached the emergency procedure for releasing the pressure in the hydraulic system that pushes and retracts the slide out room. Here is what has to happen before you can retract the room:
1-Release the pressure in the system ( follow the attached instructions)
2- physically move the room at one end or the other until it is square in the opening (same measurement from the side wall at each end of the slide out.
3- Push the room in to the closed position. (if the room is not too far out, you can drive to the nearest RV shop that works on HWH slide rooms.
4- Before you drive, close the solenoid nuts you turned 4 1/2 turns counterclockwise in the procedure.
5- Call me back if you are not clear on what to do. Fred
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Fred
I already had the instructions, but thanks for the effort.
Eric
I can't find anything that might have caused the slide to go crooked (the driver's seat has been forward for several days as we moved the RV getting ready to head home). I opened all 4 release valves as soon as I got some tools yesterday (also found the reservoir cap) and tried to move the kitchen end of the slide where there is a 3/4 in. bolt on the end of the shaft using a socket and a breaker bar and then a 1/2 impact wrench. Won't turn either way. I measured the difference in how far each end of the slide is out: kitchen end is out 16 1/2 in. and the living room end it only out 8 in.
As for past extensions, the slide seemed to be a little jerky, but I can't remember one side starting in first.
Where would a rocking valve be located and how does that enter into fixing this?
Also, in the outside electrical compartment there is a button that is labeled HWH reset, what does that do?
And finally, does anyone have ideas on how to get the slide straightened out?
If I can get the slide in and locked I would like to head home (northwestern Montana) and find someone in the Spokane, WA to fix it.
By the way, it's 7:48 am here in AZ.
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Paul
The button in the electrical bay should be white on the end it is a circuit breaker if it is griped it will pop out to reset it you simply push on the white end until it clicks into place .
There are two different systems one uses an antiracking valve and the other uses a syncronizing cylinder l am going to try to get some pictures out of the service manual for both types so you can identify which one you have.
If you have the valves open and the room is still not moving there must be something jamming the slide room mechanically
Check for something stuck in a roller or on top of the slide.
I would not use that tractor unless it was an extreme last resort !
I sent a pm with the sync cylinder equalizing procedure.
Eric
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Paul,
I am not sure if your coach has a syncronizing cylinder. A call to HWH or Beaver may answer that question. You may look above the fuel tank for a hydraulic cylinder with a shaft sticking out of each end. The syncronizing cylinder could have caused this situation.
Your issue now is to disassemble the cross-shaft so you can move one end of the room without moving the other. The cross-shaft is the 1" square tubing the has a "spur gear" on each end that engages the "rack" tract on the bottom of each outrigger. (clearly visable in your pictures) Once the cross-shaft is disconnected, move the end that is "in" the most outward about 2". Next move the other end of the room " inward" about 2". Continue this process until the room is equal on each end. Now push the room in evenly. DONOT push on the edges of the room. If you are going to use a fork lift or some other device go real slow and evenly. Don't get discouraged, take your time. Blessings, Fred
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Paul
Fred is right the cross shaft has to be disabled to straighten the room just be careful as there may be a fair bit of torque from one side to the other when you disconnect the cross shaft this torque will be released.
Eric
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I believe the HWH reset button, that looks like the attached picture, is to reset the HWH leveling system.
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Paul
I couldn't get the pages up loaded here so I sent two complete PDF manuals to Steve Huber to load into the coach assist library
They will help give you an understanding of the synchronizing system and how to troubleshoot it.
But for now have you managed to get that slide back in.
Eric
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Everyone:
I have not gotten the slide in, but I did get an appointment to get it looked at and hopefully fixed. Talked to RV Lifestyles here in Quartzite, AZ (about 7 miles) and will try to drive it there Monday morning around 6:30 am. Will shut the release valves tomorrow morning so the coach is as ready to make the
trip as I can make it. Through you guys, I've have learned a bit about slideouts and also how great BAC is. I will try to meet all of you who attend the Quartzsite BAC rally next year to thank you in person.
I can't begin to thank you guys enough for your support, but I can wish each of you good health and safety in this crazy world!!
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Paul
Wish I was closer to help but it sounds like you have a plan.
Hope all works out with your slide
Keep in touch and let us know how it works out.
Best of luck and happy trails
Eric
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Paul, May I add my 2 cents. Since you can't find any obstruction which may have caused the slideout to go askew is it possible that the coach body is twisted in attempting to level on uneven terrain? I believe you owned a Monaco at one time and I've read somewhere that slideout instructions are opposite regarding operating the slideout when in either level or travel mode. There may also be a difference depending on your leveling system. My 40' Monterey with air only leveling nearly jammed once when attempting to retract the slide prior to travel mode.
Good luck and stay safe.
Bob Stone
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Did this slide stuck cockeyed, half open and half closed, get resolved?
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Everyone:
RV Lifestyles in Quartzsite, AZ was able to get the slide even and closed so we could get home to Montana. I will see about getting it repaired when things open up.
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Good to hear thanks for the up date
Eric
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Whew! I am glad you got the slide in and by now are probably home or at least on the way there.
A few years ago we had an incident with our street-side living room slide. I always stand such that I can watch the slides from end-to-end as they are moving in and out. This ONE time the back, upper corner of the slide got stuck as I was pulling in that slide. The other three corners of the slide moved probably four or five inches before I got my finger off the button. I immediately reversed the slide's direction and it went back out to full extension. When I pushed the button to again pull in the slide, it worked fine. That is the only time that has ever happened on any of the three slides on our coach. The lesson I learned was to always carefully watch the slides as they move in or out, and be ready to quickly get off the button!
Good luck with your repairs... if indeed anything needs to be repaired.
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Don't know if I should open a new post for this, but it is a continuation of the problem. We got home okay after RV Lifestyles in Quartzsite got the slide about 99% in and somehow locked there. Now our house is at Appleway RV in Spokane Valley, WA and they are telling me they can't find the parts to fix the slide. I already knew there were bent parts from talking to RV Lifestyles. Anyway, does anyone have any idea as to where we might find the parts need or someone to craft the parts?
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If you know the damaged parts that need replacing, then you could try getting them from an RV salvage yard, call the slide-mechanics manufacturer such as HWH, or call the old standby, Beaver Coach Services (BCS) in Bend, OR.
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Appleway RV said they contacted the slide operation manufacturer, I think HWH, and they say the parts are at least 2 months out, assuming because of the virus mess. Will pass on Bend RV as a possible source. I would think they would know to check RV salvage yards but will mention this too.
Thank you for your suggestions.
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Paul I would call Beaver Coach Sales in Bend (541) 322-2184 they do stock many items some old or rebuilt, ask for Sean or TY to call you, then explain the problem they may offer a fix to get you down the road.