BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bill and Gisela Pollock on November 29, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
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Front Brake Caliper Lock Up on 2002 Monterey. For those with hydraulic disc brakes such as the 2002 Monterey, you might want to read the post at the following site: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f22/workhorse-brake-recall-54882.html
We have experienced two lock ups of the Bosch part number 415-3222 calipers which have the same phoenolic pistons as described in the above post. Our owners manual does not recommend any maintenance of the front brake slides, however it has been recommended to us that we have the wheels removed and the caliper slides lubricated annually. If you operate in humid areas such as Florida where both of our lock ups occurred, you should consider having your brake fluid renewed frequently as well. We now have calipers with steel pistons which runs the risk of boiling the brake fluid due to heat but should not lock up like the phoenolic pistons. All Workhorse Chassis with these brakes have been recalled by NHTSA. There was a recall on the 2001 Monterey for this reason. I was told by Monaco technical that my brakes were not the same as those recalled but I am skeptical of this.
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As it turns out, our 2002 was subject to the recall. Monaco Elkhart performed the recall in 2004 but did not for some reason replace the calipers. That left us with the calipers with phoenolic pistons and all the problems described in the web site referenced in our previous post. Bummer for us.
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For the people who have hydraulic brakes, the reason that Bill was suggesting that you replace your brake fluid is that if you are in a humid area the brake fluid will absorb moisture (water) from the air over time, and the desolved water will lower the boiling point of the brake fluid and cause brake lock-up or a spongy pedal in hard braking conditions. The moisture in the fluid can also cause corrosion of the brake parts that contact the fluid like the caliper pistons.
How often you change the fluid is a judgement call. Some high performance European cars like Porsche recommend brake fluid changes once a year. I think that is too often for the average RVer, but it is your call. Some sports car dealers have a tester to check the percentage of moisture in brake fluid.
Gerald
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Gerald,
Thanks for providing some needed explanation and technical clarity. We intend to have our front calipers inspected annually and also have the slide lubricated. It is either that or go back to Arizona where there is less humidity than Florida.
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Have filed the following safety complaint with National Highway Safety Administration (NHTSA) Office of Defects Investigation regarding previously reported front brake caliper lock up. Previous recall performed by Monaco at Elkhart did not do us much good. We are wondering if any others have had this same problem with coaches from 1998 to 2002 which did not have air brakes.
safercar.gov homepage NHTSA homepage
Office of Defects Investigation (ODI)
Safety Complaint Confirmation
Your Complaint Information is successfully submitted.
Your Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10296311
Your Complaint Information
Acknowledgement
An e-mail was sent to
rovingpollocks@hotmail.com
Complaint Information
Description: Bosch hydraulic disc Brakes on 2002 Beaver Monterey Motor home subject to NHTSA recall 02V278000. Recall performed by Monaco in October 2004. Subsequently, we have experienced six failures: Thermal events cause by brake lock up. Two fires. This appears to be the same problem now being remedied by NHTSA recall 09V110000. It is the same Bosch brakes on Workhorse Chassis manufactured by Navistar (who now owns Monaco RV, LLC). They appear to being recalled for the same reason...overheating due to lock up caused by phenolic caliper piston absorbing moisture and sticking. According to info available original recall remedy did not require replacement of calipers; new recall appears to require that. Old recall should have based on our experience. Recommend recalling all Monaco RVs originally recalled by 02v278000 for replacement of components not replaced originally. It is noted that some of the Monaco products recalled in 2004 were on Workhorse Chassis. How many other RV chassis use the same Westport axles and/or Bosch disc brake calipers? If they merit recall on one RV chassis they most likely merit recall on all. After our most recent lock up and fire we were able to locate Bosch Caliper part number 415-3222 with steel vice phenolic pistons. We hope that we have fixed the problem; this after two fires and $5000+ in repairs.
Approximate Incident Date: 11/24/2009
Your responses to the questions regarding the incident:
Deaths/Injuries: No Property Damage: Yes
Crash: No
Fire: Yes Police Report: No
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Vehicle Information
VIN: 1RFB5456423017795
Year, Make, Model: 2002, BEAVER COACH, MONTEREY
Failure Mileage: 89302
Speed: 45
Vehicle Component Information
Component 1: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
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Consumer Information
Name: william Pollock
Daytime Phone: 540 272 0601 Ext:
Evening Phone: 540 272 0601
E-mail: rovingpollocks@hotmail.com
Fax:
Address: 253 Rainbow Drive
#15315
City, State, Zip: LIVINGSTON, TX 77399
Country: USA
Referral Source: Hotline Exhibit
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I had a caliper lock up on my 01 Beaver Patriot this summer. Who can I contact to see if the recall was ever performed?
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Bill,
This problem is very common with this era braking system. Yes, the problem reoccurs often... Solution is annual maintenance for the calipers/slides and regular flush/renew of brake fluid. IMHO, it was not all due to the type of Bosch brakes, but poor design originally.
Good luck,
Karl
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I have had two lock-up and one small fire on my 2001 Beaver Monterey. I replaced two calipers and two disc due to this issue. I also, did not know there was a recall.
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Just reviving my request.
Does anyone know where I can check to see if the brake recall was done on my coach?
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Les,
I would contact BCS (Beaver Coach Sales) Service Department. They will probably either be able to determine if the recall was preformed or know how to find out, if anyone can.
Gerald
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Thanks Gerald.
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Hi everybody,
I logged on due to having this very problem.
My drivers side front brake caliper is intermittently locking.
The coach is a 1999 Beaver Monterey with hydraulic disk brakes.
I am scheduled to have a mechanic at Camping World in Florida check them after a highway mobile repair.
The caliper loosened up and I was able to drive to my destination.
I believe the slider needs to be maintained. Problem is I have not done one yet.
If anyone is available to give me some tips - They would be much appreciated.
Posting from the sunshine state parks
Pam & Tom
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Tom,
There are three different problems that cause about 99% of the problems with sticking brake calipers on hydraulic brakes, and all three possibilities should be checked if you are having the problem.
First, and most common is slide resistance. Slide resistance can be caused from corrosion, bent or damaged mounts, worn mounts, or just a lack of cleaning and lubrication, especially if the coach is used on salted roads. All of these conditions should be checked when servicing the brakes.
The next most common problem is from a corroded or seized piston (pistons) in the caliper. If there is excess pressure needed to move the caliper piston, you need to either overhaul or replace the caliper.
The last reason for caliper lock-up is a faulty hydraulic brake hose. The inner rubber lining of the hose can come loose and act like a check valve to hold pressure in the caliper. This is usually an expensive repair because it is so commonly overlooked, and everything else in the brake system that was not needed is replaced first. Hydraulic hose failures become more common as they age beyond ten years, and since your coach is looking at 16 years, check those hoses carefully.
Gerald
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Does anyone have a source for high-performance brakes hoses in the extra long lengths we have on the hydraulic brake Beavers? The front hoses must be 60 inches long each because of the geometry of the suspension. I wanted the shop to replace mine last Spring, but they claimed they couldn't locate a source of hoses.
Grant
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Most cities of moderate size have a shop that can manufacture hydraulic lines. You will need to know the attributes of the line you want to replace, i.e., length, fittings, psi requirements, environmental operating conditions, etc. I had a 15 inch hydraulic line manufactured in a shop in Buckley, WA... and Buckley ain't too big. I will add that they ain't cheap either.
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I have reviewed some diagrams of caliper sliders.
Looked at my brake calipers and reviewed the similar types
What I have seems to be slider pins that can be removed without removal of the caliper.
I won't be able to replace the boots on the slider but If I remove the pins - separately - clean and grease each one then carefully replace the pin into it's place - will that be possible?
I won't be able to bleed the brakes here - BUT - if I see it correctly, I won't have to bleed brakes at all.
Are these assumptions correct??
Thank You All
Happy Thanksgiving
Pam & Tom
In the sunshine state (for now)
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Tom,
If your calipers have removable slide pins, you should be able to remove them one at a time without removing the calipers. If that is all that you do to the brakes, you will not need to bleed the brakes. However, there is at least a 50% chance that just lubing the slide pins will not solve your brake lock-up problem. You also need to check the other two items that I mentioned in the previous post.
Gerald
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Tom,
Lubricating the front pins will help... However, keep in mind what others have said in this thread, you need to address a regular maintenance program that includes flush/refill of brake fluid, condition of brake lines and cleaning/lubricating the front and rear brakes.
If you are having a lock-up problem, you also need to check the condition of rotors/hub bearings/seals and calipers. These inspections should be done by an experienced heavy duty mechanic.
Karl
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Yes to both of you
The situation is:
Just had the brake master cylinder and a few lines replaced by a mechanic
Flushed and replaced with new DOT 3 or 4 (what ever is called for)
Mech said that an annual maint is recommended - Am planning on that when I return.
Just need to get by this one brake situation.
My plan is to pull each of the two slides - one at a time - clean&lube then check.
If that gets me by for now - all good.
If not I am near some mechanics here in St Augustine for the next few weeks.
Any recommendations for the st augustine/ jacksonville area for mechanics???
Thank You both
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Tom,
Good luck with removal/clean/re-lube and reinstall of the slide pins.. It may help and it may not. Do you know the required torque value to reinstall? Do you have a torque wrench that is able to re-torque the pins to that value? (very important)
From your description of the prior work, flush and refill of the brake fluid may help the most. Why did they work on your master cylinder and which brake lines did they replace?
The only shop in the Jacksonville area that I know about is Tri-Star Truck....
Karl
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Karl
No I don't know the torque needed
Most of my tools are not with me
I would have to estimate the torque from removal- my only choice if I do the work
I am leaning toward a mechanic but need some information on the possibility of a recall , the start of my inquiry. I have called Beaver Motor Coach in OR for any info on that aspect. Beyond any recall work, I will have to make the decision at that time.
Thank You
Pam & Tom