BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Joel Weiss on April 11, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
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Those of you with kitchens on slideouts have to contend with a sink drain line that was originally fabricated with a 1-1/2 ID pond hose. On my Princeton model the hose connects to a fixed vertical pipe. Closing the slide forces the hose to bend. Several years ago I replaced the original hose and created a one-loop "coil" that allowed the hose to slide over itself which reduces the stress during slide closure. However, after 3+ years of use my replacement hose developed a crack between the "coils" of hose reinforcement in an area where it was being stressed by the closing slide.
After researching the matter, I found a hose made by Little Giant that is far more rugged than what I used before and what the original was. It's a little more expensive, but it definitely is a sturdier product. Since I had to buy 25 feet of it, I have enough to repeat the repair, if needed. However, I really don't think this one is going to crack anytime soon. ;D This new hose is actually labeled as "flexible PVC pipe" and can be glued with PVC cement if you don't want to use hose barbs and hose clamps. If anyone is interested the item can be bought here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001213DG4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001213DG4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Joel, did you repeat the loop?
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Joel, did you repeat the loop?
Yes, I included one loop. The Little Giant is much "smoother" than the original hose or the one I installed several years ago, so I can hope that it will slide over itself as the slide closes. I had to buy 25 ft which is more than twice as much as I needed so I now have enough for another repair if one is ever needed.
For those who also have a Princeton model from the 1999-2001 period, it's worth noting that the drainpipe from the sink terminates in a completely inaccessible back corner of the cabinetry. Since I had no interest in disassembling cabinets to reach that location, I removed the drawers to the left of the sink and cut the pipe where I could reach it. I could then snake the hose around the corner to the drain post which is behind the drawers under the cooktop.
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Thanks Joel, Mine just broke this last weekend on New Years day in San Diego... Now that we're home I can fix it. I shouldn't complain, 16 years was pretty good life for the hose, although I sure did complain trying to get the old one off!
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Timely post Joel! Mine is in the process of failing. I have the same hose but much easier to deal with. Mine is outside under the slide. It doesn't break (so far) but starts to kink, when well used, so the sink won't drain when the slide is in. It's time to replace it again. I'll try your suggested replacement.
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I used spa hose to replace the broken OEM hose in our 01 Contessa. It probably isn't quite as flexible as Joel's solution but it will not leak or break over time. Hint, use a heat gun or hair drier to get it over the barbed ends. http://hardwareonlinestore.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=29990&virtuemart_category_id=46602&gclid=Cj0KEQiAtK3DBRCBxt-Yxduq5p4BEiQAbFiaPVaA1kTkyMPIHZt_y15I0UmHERWPw0eDDMkcIiIKgUsaAg6A8P8HAQ&ppcsclkid=p26ItLj641nX&ppcstrkid=1332290283&ppcsu=xhg7f5djqitnahs
It should be available at most home improvment store. I got mine at Menard's in MN.
Steve
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Several years ago, I repaired mine with radiator hose, 2 links, and has worked well!! Henry
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I replaced ours in 2012 with original equipment hose. I mitigated the problem not by changing material, but by installing a longer section than the factory did. When I carefully analyzed things and measured, the original's loop could've moved another couple inches before hitting anything when the slide moves in, and a larger-ranging loop during slide-out would've meant less stress near where it mounted to the hard pipe, and perhaps no kink there.
The kink, as many of us discovered, means cracking at the kink; subsequent leaking of kitchen sink drain water there, which if hidden under cabinetry may not show up until unpalatable smells instigate an investigation, or water gets under tiles destroying adhesion or damages things in the bays. If you're lucky, slow drain flow gets you looking sooner rather than later.
For those that haven't reached that point, it might behoove them to check their hose, when the galley slide is out, to see if it's developing a weakening flex or a kink near where the hose connects to the black floor pipe.
Joel
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I also developed a leak and after searching the area found the sink drain line split open in two places. I found a piece of pool hose(heavy duty) at Lowes and replaced it with that.
The hardest part was getting to the hose as its way back behind the cabinets. I pulled out the drawers and got to it easier but still was hard to get the old one off. I added a few feet tothe new hose and routed it a bit different than before.
Its been fine for three years now.
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Timely post indeed! The other day I noticed some water in a storage compartment. First thing that popped into my head was this thread. I located the flex hose on my Monterey inside the wall next to the kitchen slide. Sure enough, it was kinked and split. I was able to find some 1-1/2" ID spa hose at an Ace Hardware. The local big box stores didn't carry it. I used a couple of flex connectors and increased the length as per other's suggestion. Wanted to put in a coil but, concerned about the amount of room inside the wall.
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I just fixed mine over the weekend. I was worried because the pond hose is very stiff. I tried to make a loop, but I couldn't figure out how that would fit. I ended up putting a bungy cord around it to pull it up as the slide came in, otherwise it would get bound up by the wall. The last thing I need is for the hose to break the pvc pipe that it is attached to.
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Everyone
We are in the midst of doing this project except that the space shown in Rogers pictures and all is much better than ours.
I am trying to picture what Joel means by a coil. How would you put a loop or anything like a coil in. I guess I am a bit slow on the uptake but it is important given the very limited space we have. What do you say Joel?
I did figure out that the main cause of failure in the original PVC flex tube was the purple primer used in the white PVC fitting. The primer softens the PVC and since it was applied too far up the tube that is where it tore loose. The tube was too short to begin with and twisted in multiple ways. Then they strapped other lines to it with zip ties which added alot of weight. I mention this just so someone else might benefit down the road .
LOOK AT PICS BELOW! (Provided by my wonderful wife! ;D
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Here are pics of what we are dealing with!
They are self explanatory...NOTE* The last pic should be in the #2 position and the second to last one is of the very bottom of the cabinet
and shows the tiny bit of white, at the very bottom, which is the lower end of the white drain hose!
Nigh on impossible to reach! What fun! ;D
As you can see, we have no "kink" but a big tear at the top where it joins the hard ABS. Obviously, the hose is too short and as it's also bound to surrounding wiring and other hoses, the stress point is obvious. But what to do to prevent it from doing the same later on?
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Crikey Keith...there's a lot of "stuff" going on in that tight space. Good luck!
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Keith,
Is it possible to put an extension on the PVC and tie the existing hose to it rather than trying to replace the complete hose (or add a splice in the existing hose to lengthen it). In any case I'd try to figure out how to avoid the stress in the hose from occurring at the PVC to hose junction.
Good Luck, Steve
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Having been there, but not with quite your same dilemma, a similar thought occurred to me as Steve's after seeing the last added photo - adding pipe to get the flexpipe fitting actually out into the sidecase. Yesterday I was going to suggest removing that extra counter casement, but wasn't sure how much that might entail; I had to remove a piece from ours similarly, but it wasn't quite as "attached" as yours. At least now you have significantly better access!
The solution (so far) in our case was a longer flex pipe. You could add an extension of solid pipe, either to the black top pipe with attached cleanout or to the white PVC screw-on adapter, so it reached out into the adjoining case, then attach a PVC elbow turned to open toward streetside (assuming that's a curbside kitchen). You may or may not need a new flexpipe in order to get the length right, but use every mm of available space between the top and bottom black fittings up to the front of that case to allow the longest possible loop in the flexpipe. That means that when the slide is in, the curve zenith in the flexpipe will be right up against what I assume is a removeable case cover like ours - the one facing toward the streetside.
This is likely going to take some micromanagement like it did with ours, so without actually being there I can't anticipate what might need to be done that's much different from our solution. It may take the application of Roger's or Greg's ideas as well. Since all those other hoses and such travel as well, and the flexpipe may no longer be strapped to them or vice versa, probably they will take some modified management with the wire ties.
Now, I was tempted by angling the flexpipe's mount to the bottom fitting, upward 15 degrees or so (ours cracked at the bottom fitting); but double-checking that notion in practice prior to cementing things together, proved it put unexpected strain on the hose at the fitting much like what caused the original problem. The stress at full slide out is different from the stress at full slide in, of course. You'd have to sort that out for yourself given the situation is somewhat different, but I ultimately just stuck with straight horizontal flexpipe mounting.
I'm suggesting this idea since you need to get rid of that side-to-side stress on the flexpipe. By taking the hose entirely into the case and alleviating the turn to one side at the top, and freeing the hose from the restrictions of being wire-tied to the other tubing bundles, the flexpipe may be less susceptible to stress at the fittings. My one concern there would be keeping the now freed flexpipe from hanging up on or being restricted by the other bundle(s) of tubing and such in that narrow, confined case. The loop needs to move freely in either direction. Even using another type of hose, as some have done, won't dispel that issue. I stayed with flexpipe because of its slick and smooth inner surface that gray water gunk won't adhere to.
All this being said, it's also possible that just replacing the flexpipe with a longer hose and removing the restrictive uppermost wire ties from its configuration may allow the loop, now free to flex more in the case, to absorb more of the side-to-side strain, so the mounting point is less likely to fold or tear. Perhaps a rubber coupling as others have tried, fastened securely with hose clamps and placed near or at the top mount, would suffice to help distribute strain better - as long as the rubber is flexible enough, doesn't serve as a gunk collector inside, and doesn't split over time. If so, no solid pipe extension nor elbow would be needed.
A big thank you to Carol for adding that last photo!
Joel
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Thank you Steve and Joel!
We have finally finished this job and think we fixed it and hopefully improved the overall stress problem. Trust me when I say, we tried EVERY solution we could think of, including everything you gentleman suggested! We literally have a pile of glued, sawed, modified and mortified plumbing fixtures to prove it! Lol! ALL failures! In the end, we went for how it was originally installed, with a few modifications.
In the beginning, Keith had removed about 7" from the top end of the white drain pipe. Because it had been too short from the factory, we added on approx 14" of new hose. First, Keith glued the new piece of hose into the new threaded PVC connector on the end of the hard ABS plumbing. When he did so, he made sure to twist it, making it point downwards, so that when we connected the new and old pieces together, the main force of the torque being put on the hose would be applied more to the center of the hose and NOT at the top PVC/ABS connection that caused the hose to tear in the first place!
We used a sleeve clamp to connect new with old. Then, because the white hose is kind of "sticky" or "tacky" feeling and you could tell it had been dragging and binding across the back of the cabinet since day one, we added a plastic sleeve (old cutting board) with zip ties to easy the way! It seems to work GREAT! It was a struggle and a challenge to our imaginations but, in the end, we prevailed! Lol! I say "we" a lot, but Keith is the one who did all the dirty work!
Again, thanks for your help and suggestions, guys! Here's some pics!
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A perfect storm of ideas come to fruition! Looks good Keith.
My one caution would be to once in a great while cast a glance inside the cabinet when the slide is out, and be sure there is no kink developing at the bottom fitting, which is where mine went bad. With extra hose length, strain should be less at both ends, but now that you're familiar with the setup you know what to watch out for and where.
Joel