BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Rick Penick on September 20, 2018, 03:03:39 PM
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We just purchased a 1997 Monterey 36 ft. 3126 Cat engine 46k miles. I do not see any gauges on the dash etc for air bags. Second when its started up do they air up on their own or is there a switch for them? After airbags are inflated which i have no clue since no gauges do i than let down the jacks? After i park the rig i did see switches in the garage area to let air out of bags but i assume i set the jacks first than let the air out. I am surprised there is not much in the owners manual on this procedure. Appreciate the help.
thanks Rick
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Rick,
I think the 97 Monterey came with hydraulic leveling, not air/hydraulic which was used on the Marquis. If so, the air bags control ride height and are not employed in the leveling process. They will pretty much take care of themselves. The air ports are for dumping the air system to remove an possible moisture. Owner's manual should cover this.
Steve
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I looked at the Owners Manual for your coach. Those early Beaver Owner's Manuals are some of the worse I've seen. I think they had their Amish cabinet makers writing the manuals during their lunch breaks. The electrical diagrams are equally bad. Fortunately they got much better - and really good in the '07s up.
You will not find air pressure gauges for the air bags. It's not useful info as the pressure varies while driving according to road condition and loading, and you wouldn't know what is correct. The air pressure for the brake system is what's important.
There is a manual available in the Beaver Tech section (RVA Leveling) that explains how to use the hydraulic leveling. It says to only use it on (relatively) level ground. I consider it more of a stabilizer than a leveler.
If you have the style hyd leveling where the jacks go the ground, some like to dump the air bags first so the jacks don't have to extend as far to reach the ground. My coach has a switch the dash to dump the air bags. It seems very inconvenient to have to go outside of the coach to dump the air bags. Is the dump switch you mention a single switch (labeled "Dump") or are you referring to the multiple air tank drain valves?
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Rick,
Welcome to BAC... Mike is correct about the air bag pressure. The only gauge is indicating the air tank pressure (forward and rear) primarily for the brakes. The air bags are automatic and level accordingly to the condition of the ride height required during travel.
It is important to understand that the only way to dump the air bags is with the valves located in the rear service bay. Additionally, these dump valves are the only way to drain water out of the air tanks.
Be sure you regularly drain these tanks to reduce water contamination in the brake system. This coach does not have an automatic air/water dump filter system as many Beaver coaches.
Caution should be used and follow the RVA jack instructions when leveling with this three (3) point system. This 1997 Monterey model is very unique compared to other Beaver coaches.
Good luck,
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Thanks everyone! Ok i thought i was losing it when i was reading manuals they are not very good. So when i go to start up the coach i should dump the airbags first than retract the jacks than the airbags will take care of themselves? How long does it take to get the airbags up to be able to drive? When i am parking it should i let air out of bags than level the coach? My head is pinning haha! we bought this of old guy in rv park we have our fifth wheel parked at. We got a real good deal and i was impressed with the low miles for its age and i new Beaver coaches were made well. The coach is in the mountains and we are in Tucson so i am going up to pick iot up and bring it home so i can become familiar with it. We bought it we were also very trusting so hopefully all is well.
Thank you for your help!
Rick
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The manual says you should "fill the airbags first", then retract the jacks (manual doesn't say why - but if no other reason to take more of the load off the jacks).
It's not uncommon to have some air leaks in these old coaches but if your finding the air bags empty every time you go out to the coach then I think you have a leak(s) that need to be fixed.
As far as how long should it take to fill the air bags - that depends on how much air is the coach's tanks when you start up. If the tanks are full it should only take a minute for the air bags to fill. If the tanks are empty it may take a few minutes at high engine idle to fill the main tanks before air bags inflate.
Not all these coaches are the same - so I'm only relaying what I learned about "my" Beaver. My main air tanks (shown on the dash gauges) usually leak to zero in a couple of days. But my airbags stay full.
Are you finding the dash gauges show zero air and the airbags are deflated after a day or so?
Also, be sure not to try to drive the coach if the airbags are down, your front tires probably wont clear the fender wells if you turn the wheels while coach is all the way down.
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. ok i think i have it now. i hope airbags are ok old guy drove it 1000 miles from oregon and parked it. he did spark the solar batteries and did something to the fuel gauge which i hav to address as well. it has solar panels quite a few on the roof and inverter etc he had installed. Again thank you for the info very helpful! We have been very busy this year one thing after the other and have not had alot of time to get to know the coach.
Rick
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Rick,
Just to add something to what Mike posted previously. Dumping the air bags is not normally necessary before leveling. However, in the event that you are in a very unlevel site, then dumping manually will gain you some correctability during leveling.
The purpose of airing up prior to retracting the jack is for taking stress off the jacks prior to retraction. Mainly this step will eliminate popping and snapping sounds during the retraction process. Either way will work fine.
Good luck,
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Our Marquis has both air and hydraulic, manual and automatic leveling. When I push the buttons asking for automatic hydraulic leveling, the first step in the process is dumping the air. As the air is dumped, the front hydraulic jack extends to touch the ground and raise the front end about 3 inches, followed by the back two jacks touching the ground. From there, the system extends either the left rear or right rear jack to level side-to-side and/or end-to-end, and if needed the front jack will extend to raise the front higher to level end-to-end. I believe some of these processes happen concurrently, for example, as the air is dumped the jacks are extending.
It would seem to me that a manually leveled coach should be leveled in the same procedural order.
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Thank you all for your replies some great info and advice. I am heading up to the mtns next weekend will post how it went.
Rick
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Mike,
I have not had a chance to check out the airbags on the coach yet since its in mtns and we are in tucson. I just want to be up on what to do and not to do so i wouldn't screw anything up.
i will respond back as to what happens.
Thanks
Rick
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So i went to mtns today interesting to say the least. None of the airbags will air up period. I have air pressure around a 100 on the single air pressure gauge on the dash. I crawled under the coach as it was very low and pushed on airbags and there seemed to be air so i decided to drive to get diesel what an experience that was had a serious death wobble at 35-40 mph scared me to death. Another odd occurance was the leveling jacks they extended fine but took forever to retract i mean like sloth moving. Does anyone have any info on this airbag situation there is nothing in ALL the books info that really addresses this and its totally frustrating.
Another issue was check engine light came one so i tried the test for codes that didnt work either the cruise is weird cruise on off switch and a center black round 1/4" button that when pushed with cruise switch on the rpm on the engine increases at idle weird why and what is that for? Third the resume switch when held down did nothing to assist in the flash codes. so today was 4 hr up and 6 hr back home because of hugh accident on the highway. Any help would be appreciated and i hope and pray those in the accident are ok.
Thanks
Rick
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Rick, the wobble could be any of several things, such as wheel alignment and ball joints, a damaged wheel, and including not being at full travel mode with air. But it being at a certain speed range would have me also checking the driveshaft integrity.
If you aren’t aired up to 10 or so inches (between airbag plates) on the road, your driveline, depending a lot on its and the coach’s length, can be seriously mis-angled and if driven very far that way may be damaged, bent, or have worn U-joints. Had a ‘70 Shelby GT500 that was like that new straight off the dealer’s lot. Seemed to shake itself apart on the freeway but fine at other speeds.
Make sure you have the chassis blocked when under there messing with the air system... one valve or line tweak the wrong way and you could be toast (or is that pancake). Did you make sure the rubber boots are okay on the leveling valve linkages? They are a common repair culprit... been there, dun that. On YouTube there are plenty of videos regarding the valves and linkages. One example that may prove insightful is “Air Suspension Leveling Valve” by Carl the Diesel Guy. If needed, the boots (Haldex I think) are available at NAPA, although a store may have to order them in; they can be cheaper overall there than Amazon where shipping is more than the device.
Others here are better informed re. the engine code issue, but it might get more attention in its own separate post.
Joel
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Rick,
You have some very serious issues going on that could be very dangerous. Use caution, as Joel pointed out, when working under your coach. First the air bags, sounds like the bags are not getting air because of air supply problems or ride height valves are not working, broken or not adjusted correctly.
My recommendation, based on your posts would be to have a professional diagnose your problem. Also, I would NOT drive your coach until this issue is resolved to the point of air bags filling with air and adjusted to the correct ride height. If my memory is correct on my 97 Monterrey is was 9.25" not 10". Anyway, the chassis manual should give you that measurement.
On the engine error code, does you coach have a Silverleaf display in the center of the dash? If so, you can read the codes from that unit. If not, buy yourself a Scangauge "D" unit at AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts or online and it will allow you to read the codes and reset the check engine light on your dash. With out knowing the codes, we cannot help you on your engine problem.
The cruise control issues I cannot address, just not something I remember or recall in my coach.
Good luck, keep us informed of your progress...
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Hi Karl,
I appreciate the response. First i called beaver place in Oregon guy says he thinks its a solenoid for the airbags. On check engine light it has the check engine light than after i drove it for fuel
the check engine light went off and stays off only on when i start the rig. Also fuel gauge didnt work after i filled the tank gauge now shows full. The frustrating thing is there is absolutely nothing in the chassis book on the airbags nothing. Only reference is let them air up on startup thats it nothing about who makes them height at inflation etc unreal in my opinion for a manufacturer like Beaver. Also does not tell me what chassis i have in the chassis book 4 model numbers on the book but no clue on that either.
Thanks for the input...hopefully someone on this site has more info of schematic layout of parts pieces etc so there is some reference.
Thanks again
Rick
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Hi Joel Thank you for the info. Your advice is well taken i am becoming very leery of this motorhome but i own it and was too trusting when i bought it. So i was just going through some receipts and found one referencing air leak at leveling valve. Says needs new air leveling valve. References that they found a 250 amp fuse blown traced wiring data logger cable chaffed inframe and clamps from air ride suspension moving up and down. Now this was done with coach having 40700 miles on it now has 46900 miles on it. I cant believe this was never fixed as it doesnt show on the bill it being fixed. So any info on where i get leveling valve? Or who makes it?
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Rick,
Beaver manuals for a 1997 Monterey are very poor at best.. I am not aware of any manuals with schematics of airbags, air lines or electrical. Not sure what BCS is referring to about a solenoid, the airbags are controlled by air supply.
Sorry, I cannot help you on the check engine light or the fuel gauge. The fuel gauge is most likely a loose, broken or bad connection.
I believe your chassis is a Magnum M4R made by Beaver with Reyco front end and Reyco rear end. Reyco may have online schematics of those suspensions, but you need the model numbers. You are correct regarding the frustration of poor manuals and almost non-existing schematics.
Good luck,
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I’m not familiar with your particular coach, but Haldex and Neway are common valves for height control. http://www.heightcontrolvalve.com/haldex-19.htm Search online and you’ll see a number of sources, and I’d expect them to be available locally at truck and/or auto parts suppliers. But there are different types I think depending on application, such as trailer, semi-truck, motorcoach, and other uses. You’ll need to determine the correct one, hopefully from markings on the ones on your coach, or perhaps it’s noted in the document you found.
If the coach is like many, there is one valve for the front of the coach and two for the rear axle. Any or all could be faulty, and working with the air system is best done by experienced techs, Rick, most of whom would have either a lift or a pit. They can dump all the air and still easily work safely standing up. An ideal situation would be letting a coach or truck repair facility handle the task; Henderson’s Lineup would be my preferred venue, or BCS, but may not be geographically plausible for you. If you have some experience and feel comfortable working on it yourself, of course that’s up to you and can save labor costs. But I wouldn’t expect a good tech to take particularly long changing out these valves.
At this point I take it you don’t know for sure if the leak mentioned in the document refers to the actual valve (internally) or perhaps just a fitting, if it’s not the more common linkage rubber boot failure, and it doesn’t specify which valve is involved.
Some coach manuals diagram the air system as a generalization. If you don’t have at least that, you may find one in one of the newer manuals here in the Coach Assist section, but I can’t say how much your year coach may vary from them. If needed one of us could probably post for you here a photo or scan of ours if it would be helpful.
Joel
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Karl,
I ordered the Scangauge "D" thank you for that suggestion. I think i can fix the problem with airbags just i want to be safe in the process i have a friend big garage with concrete will see
if i can get him to let me drive it in there and safely get it up and properly get jack stands etc under it to get birds eye view of whats going on. I am leaving town for a month so will have to address this when i get back.
Thanks again Rick
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Joel,
Thanks for all the info appreciate it. I will check around in Showlow az and see who may be able to look at the coach. If not to far would be a consideration the coach is dam scary to drive at this point. i will look into the website you posted as well .
Thanks Rick