BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Keith Moffett on November 24, 2014, 02:12:03 PM
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An interesting thing happened recently. After reading part of another thread, I decided to reseal the flange and rivets on the top side of the awning box. We have had a leak over the entry door since we bought the coach and indications are that the PO had it too.Instead of removing the awning like we did on our last coach, I removed the silicon sealant on the seam. While doing this it became obvious that the silicon has been allowing water through for some time. Resealing this with Lexal has aparently done the trick because it is nearly dry after several inches of rain. The old sealant looked like it was doing its job before I began removing it.
Just a heads up for anyone with a leak right on top of the door!
Keith
;D
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Keith I had a leak behind the porch light when I took the lens off and changed the light to LED. I got it to stop leaking with silicone but I ordered some lexel and will redo it if that stuff is good as they claim. They say you can even use it in the rain.
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This is a timely post for me as I discovered a significant leak over the door of my 2000 Marquis on my most recent trip. Water was virtually pouring in over the entry door about 10 days ago while in rain in Oregon. I took off the interior trim above the door and it is obvious that it has been leaking for some time. We just got the coach in July and hadn't encountered any rain. I guess the stains on the fabric should have tipped me off.
I will try your solution to see if that takes care of it. Not sure how to track down the leak if this isn't the problem.
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In addition to the light fixture box and the awning box, another place to check is the horizontal joint between your front cap and sidewall just above the awning over the door. It is difficult to check without removing the gutter strip that covers the joint. So check all the easier places first. I found our aluminum gutter strip that covers the joint on the drivers side attempting to seal an open gap about 3/8" wide between the front cap and the wall panel.
Good Luck
Grant
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Gary
The Lexel went on very well even though it was cooling off rapidly and froze shortly after. Between times it rained a fair amount starting just as I was finishing. No problems with it sticking or setting up.
Jim
Keep us updated on the results and dont forget to seal the porch light. In the chase over the door are the mounting brackets for the door frame. These make the leak appear to be comming from other areas due to pooling. We have hand towels hanging from this area with one end jamed into the space around the brackets. They help wick away the water and minimize the damage. We just change them out every few days. I hope this works as well for you as for us. Some of the original silicone looked solid but when I removed it it wasnt sealing anything so this should make a big difference. I hope it does for you as well.
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Had a couple inches of rain yesterday. Since the reseal it has been nearly bone dry and the coach has not moved still it started leaking again. Snow tonight and barely above freezing tomorrow for the high so no caulking. Still, I believe we solved the worst of the problem. Somewhat frustrating though. Time to focus on pink antifreeze as it is expected to reach 19 degrees tomorrow night.
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OK, I think I found the leak source. It looks like the caulking at the front lower corner of the awning, between the awning box and the opening for the box. I ran water over the entire awning area and no water leaked in until water was directed to this area. My wife watched inside while I did this.
I retracted the awning to get some extra working room and then I pulled out all of the old silicone - it appeared to be a repair made some time ago as it was generously applied to every crack, rivet and seam - and then used Lexel to form a new bead around the entire area.
It will be rainy in the next few days so I can see if it solved the problem. However, while the awning was out I checked the other end and noticed that the entire awning box was pulled away from the body. I can only guess that the mounting hardware is loose or maybe the nuts came off. I found two nuts missing from the front mounting bolts while having repairs done at BCS.
Does anyone know how to access this hardware? I fear it is behind the refrigerator.
Just looked at the post and the picture is rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise. Not sure why it did that or how to fix it.
(Re-Corrected orientation and re-posted photo. Steve Huber)
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Jim
I was able to reach inside the cavity behind the refrig with a camera in hand, point it up and take a series of photos showing awning attachment bolts. See my photo.
Grant
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Thanks for the picture of the mounting hardware. I guess I have my work cut out for me.
Steve, thanks for changing the picture orientation however, it is now upside down. If you could change it again I would appreciate it.
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Oops.. Corrected.
Steve
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Jim,
I can not be sure where you awning is bolted in without looking at the coach, but my 2000 Marquis Tourmaline is not bolted behind the refrigerator. The awning is bolted in the locations. One is above the door, the next location is in the center of awning behind a covered removable panel in the back of the cabinet, and the rear location is above the washer behind a removable wood panel. I doubt that the awning is bolted behind the refrigerator on your Jasper.
Gerald
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Thanks, Gerald. I see the center mounting hardware in the cabinet above the dining table. I can't find the rear ones and believe they may be behind the bathroom mirror as this is about where the awning ends. I can't figure out how to get the mirror off, though.
Anyone know how to do this?
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Jim,
The mirrors in coaches are normally glued to the wall w/mirror adhesive to prevent movement, rattling and possible breakage. Suspect access to the mounting bolts is elsewhere.
Steve
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Jim,
I am with Steve in that I would be doubtful of finding the awning mounting bolts behind the mirror. I would call BCS (Beaver Coach Sales) Service department tomorrow and ask if they remember where the mount is located on your coach.
Gerald
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The only other possibility that I can see is behind the refrigerator. I checked the cabinet to the left of the mirror and they are not there. Just forward of that is the pocket door to the bathroom and then the refrigerator is forward of that. No access hatches or mounting hardware is visible in any of these locations.
I will call BCS tomorrow.
Thanks to you all. I'll keep you posted.
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I called BCS and Ken Carpenter said he thought it was probably behind the refrigerator. Unless I find out otherwise I guess I'll be pulling the refrigerator out to find out for certain.
Thanks again for the help.
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OK, it has been raining for 24 hours and there is no more leak above the entry door. It is absolutely dry inside the area that the water was collecting and dripping in. The resealing with Lexel seems to have worked. Now to work on the rear awning bolts.
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That's great, one fix done and another to accomplish!
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OK, I got the refrigerator out and there were two sets of three bolts on the wall behind the refrigerator. All of the bolts were tight. I have attached pictures of the bolts and also of the gap caused when the awning is fully opened.
Obviously the weight of the deployed awning is pulling the top of the awning assembly down but it is not caused by these attachment bolts being loose. The documentation that came with the coach doesn't have enough detail about mounting locations as it is generic to the awning, not the specific application.
Any ideas as to why this is happening? Are there other attachments that are not evident?
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Given that the bolts inside are tight I have to think your best answer will come from Girrard or BCS.
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If the bolts are tight then the back plate of the awning must be bending to allow it to open the gap. I have never had my awning off of the coach but I believe there may be some brackets or backing plates that have an edge visible at the bottom of the awning. Do you see any bracket? Someone who has had one of these awnings off may want to comment, I am not sure of the bracket info.
I would call Girrard and see how the mounting is supposed to be done and see if yours has been mounted properly. If you open the awning and check the back of the housing where the bolts are, is the back of the housing look or feel deformed? My suspicion is that the awning was never mounted properly, perhaps the bolts were placed too low and the top of the housing is not secure and bending.
Later Ed
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Jim,
I have to agree with Keith here. From your description, apparently the mounting bolts have pulled out of the awning. Therefore, you are going to find a corrective procedure only from BCS or Girard.
Gerald
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There are no exposed mounting hardware visible when the awning is out. I tried to look through the gap at the top to try to find some hardware but I don't see anything. I have a call in to Girard and am awaiting a call back from a technician. I will try BCS if they can't help. I doubt the awning is specific to the Beaver coach so they may not be able to determine exactly how it was mounted in this application.
Thanks for the suggestion.
If the bolts are tight then the back plate of the awning must be bending to allow it to open the gap. I have never had my awning off of the coach but I believe there may be some brackets or backing plates that have an edge visible at the bottom of the awning. Do you see any bracket? Someone who has had one of these awnings off may want to comment, I am not sure of the bracket info.
I would call Girrard and see how the mounting is supposed to be done and see if yours has been mounted properly. If you open the awning and check the back of the housing where the bolts are, is the back of the housing look or feel deformed? My suspicion is that the awning was never mounted properly, perhaps the bolts were placed too low and the top of the housing is not secure and bending.
Later Ed
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Jim,
I've attached an exploded view of the awning. From your symptoms, I'd suspect the awning body has come off of the "hooks' on item 8. If so you may be able to loosen the bolts and get it to re-engage. Otherwise it looks like the awning would have to be removed and remounted, which may be the best option as it will allow you to repair any water damage, etc.
Steve
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Thanks, Steve. I am guessing it is quite a heavy piece and best left for someone who has worked with/installed them before. Not sure I want to risk trying a fix-it-yourself solution. I haven't found a shop I trust in So Cal so I will inquire with the folks at Girard if they call me back. They probably have a suggestion for who does quality work with their products in my area.
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Jim,
Girard may repair your awning at their factory in Orange County, California. They changed the motor on my awning at the factory several years ago. Their factory is located;
1361 Calle Avanzado
San Clemente, CA 92673
Gerald
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I just got off the phone with Andre at Girard's service department. I explained the issue and Andre told me that this was a fairly common problem on my vintage Beaver coach. The issue is that the way these awnings were mounted by the factory, with the rearmost attachment hardware being nearly 3' forward of the back end of the awning, it does not adequately secure the awning to the coach.
Andre said the recommended fix is made by drilling a hole directly through the the awning rail (within 10" of the rearmost end) and through to the inside of the coach and attaching it on the inside wall with a mounting plate, nut, bolt and washers. He said that this will cure the problem. He also said that he thought this may have actually been a recall on Beaver's part since it was an improper installation in the first place. Andre said that Girard will not do this modification and I was on my own to do it myself or find a shop that will do the work.
I have a call in to Ken Carpenter at BCS to see if they have heard of it and/or fixed any of these in this manner.
Has anyone else heard of this issue? I wonder if this should be moved to a separate post since it has now gotten a bit off track from the original post.
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Jim,
The bracket (item 8 in Steve's exploded view) should be visible along the bottom. This is a photo of the brackets and what may be extra bracing behind the awning. There are three of these mounting arrangements on my 2002 Marquis, one somewhat near each end and one over the light between the two living room area between the two windows. Photo attached. Seems like you should be seeing something like this on your Girrard. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Thanks, Ed, I'll take a look tomorrow. I'm not sure this is the issue but it deserves a closer look.
I spoke with Ken at BCS and he confirmed that this is not the first such problem. He said he recalled a similar fix in which an additional bolt was inserted near the end of the awning, he believes it was placed in the cabinet next to the mirror.
I feel certain that this is what it will take to correct the problem.
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I trust Andre at Girrard and would follow his instruction explicitly. He has worked there since the A&E days and is very familiar with the Beaver applications. I had a problem a few months ago with my awning. I described the problem over the phone. He knew the exact problem, the fix, where every bolt was located (I was able to take it to Girrard since I'm in So. Cal.) and exactly what needed to be done. The guy is a pro and if he explained the fix, I would look no further.
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Now that Andre mentioned it my rear mount is forward a ways from the end of the awning as I recall. I think the fix Andre provided could be done without removing the awning but he should provide that input given his experience with this issue.
I had a Carefree electric awning on my last coach that was an awning replacement purchased by a prior owner. It did not work right and would twist due to the torque of the weight on it when extending or retracting. I drilled through the awning and coach and ended up using two stainless bolts coming through in the medicine cabinet with large stainless fender washers and it worked fine after that. The issue is where exactly to place the bolts which may have to be a best guess.
If there was a recall maybe there is some literature at BCS about where/how to place the bolt(s) but that is probably wishful thinking. I do think they have the knowledge to provide some guidance.
Later Ed