BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dick Simonis on September 02, 2014, 09:14:17 PM
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I'm looking at a 2002 Marguis with 4 point hydraulic leveling. Is this the frame to frame version??? Since I don't see any jacks I suspect it may be and, if so, are there any issues I should be aware of??
Thanks for any input.
Dick
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Dick,
I have a 2002 Marquis with that hydraulic system. The downside is getting parts can be an issue if you have a problem and the system can be a bit abrupt in unleveling and dropping the coach when you are migrating from hydraulic leveling to over the road air leveling. My system has been good and I have not needed service. The other plus is that you do not have hydraulic jacks going to the ground.
If I had my choice I would have air leveling and to add that to this coach is between a $5 and $6K expense. I would try and negotiate that expense as an extra discount into the price of the coach given this leveling system is not supported with very limited original parts available from BCS. They have created a manual system if the automated control panel fails but you would have to go to Bend OR to install it. If you want to add air leveling you would have to go to Moscow Iowa to get it installed.
Later Ed
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Dick,
I have a 2002 Marquis with that hydraulic system. The downside is getting parts can be an issue if you have a problem and the system can be a bit abrupt in unleveling and dropping the coach when you are migrating from hydraulic leveling to over the road air leveling. My system has been good and I have not needed service. The other plus is that you do not have hydraulic jacks going to the ground.
If I had my choice I would have air leveling and to add that to this coach is between a $5 and $6K expense. I would try and negotiate that expense as an extra discount into the price of the coach given this leveling system is not supported with very limited original parts available from BCS. They have created a manual system if the automated control panel fails but you would have to go to Bend OR to install it. If you want to add air leveling you would have to go to Moscow Iowa to get it installed.
Later Ed
There is a tech at Orlando RV in Winter Park Fl that can convert the system to manual also. He did mine as part of the deal when I bought it. Works great. His name is Nandy.
Jerry
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Thanks guys, this system appears to be manual and is similar in appearance to an RVA pad but with 4 switches and a little green light. I'm wondering if it's already been replaced.
Any problems with the jacks themselves and the ability to level on uneven surfaces.
Thanks
Dick
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Dick,
The SMC leveling system has no problem in leveling on uneven ground if the system is operating and you are within the travel length of the suspension. If you are on very unlevel ground, the suspension will not have enough travel to allow leveling.
The main problem with the jacks arises if they start leaking. Since the system was discontinued over ten years ago replacement jacks can be almost if not totally impossible to find, and most of them were designed to be non-repairable. The jacks on an SMC leveling system do not interchange with most leveling systems because they are power up and down instead of power down and spring retract like most systems. Karl was able to modify a Big Foot jack to fit his Patriot in an earlier post, but I am not sure that they have enough weight capacity for a Marquis.
Gerald
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Jerry,
The change over to manual, what was involved in that conversion, what do the controls look like (maybe a photo), and how do you operate it?
Do you have a level sensor involved and you manually move each jack with a switch until the sensor goes out? Is this the BCS manual system or something different?
Thanks Ed
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It is completely manual. The first switch turns the system on when pushed up and dumps the air when pushed down. The next buttons are front left, front right, rear left, rear right. The lights light up when the jacks are down. One of the lights is not working as I found out tonight. I was having an issue getting the suspension into travel mode. The coach leaned hard to port (left). One of the jacks had worked it's way down and when I tried to drive it was keeping the coach from leveling in travel mode. The mechanic was not familiar with the system and asked me what it was and it all became clear. Jack up, travel mode accomplished. Anyway a lot of this explanation was for Gerald's benefit also. I called him in a panic (almost) a week or so ago when I discovered it. I have no idea if this is like the BCS system. The tech., Nandy, did the conversion in about 6 hours on the day I picked up the coach. He even drew up a new schematic for me. Hopefully the pic of the control panel will be attached.
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Interestingly, last night we were looking at the leveling system and I asked for a demo....guess what, it didn't seem to level well and when I stepped outside there was a large pool of vital fluids running from under the right front corner. Needless to say this is on the early AM schedule of the service guys.
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Dick,
We had an 01 Marquis with leveling jack issues. In the end both rear jacks were removed and we had no leveling system at all. We had hoped to have the jacks repaired or go to all air leveling but we ended up trading her in for an 08 Marquis instead. I loved that system when it worked but then it was the only system we had ever used. It is now at BCS and is their problem. Maybe having a coach in their possession will the jack issue will help them to come up with a solution. We have yet to see it on their website for sale so we are guessing they will fix it before trying to sell it.
Good Luck,
Laura
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Jerry,
Thanks a lot for doing that. Much easier to understand with a photo. One more request, can you take a photo of the schematic he drew up and post it? That may provide some insight into how a manual system wiring would work. We may have to head there some day and in an emergency that info could be very helpful. This system is completely manual in that there is not a level sensor of any kind to guide you. You could set up some bubble levels to help but it is pretty quick to figure out if you are not level with a little walk down the aisle.
In your photo, nearby on the wall looks like another panel. Is that air leveling or something else?
Later Ed
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Jerry,
Thanks a lot for doing that. Much easier to understand with a photo. One more request, can you take a photo of the schematic he drew up and post it? That may provide some insight into how a manual system wiring would work. We may have to head there some day and in an emergency that info could be very helpful. This system is completely manual in that there is not a level sensor of any kind to guide you. You could set up some bubble levels to help but it is pretty quick to figure out if you are not level with a little walk down the aisle.
In your photo, nearby on the wall looks like another panel. Is that air leveling or something else?
Later Ed
Yes Sir, that is the HWH air leveling system which has worked well but may need adjustment. I say may because as I was writing this I started wondering if the need for adjustment may have been caused by the hydraulic jack that had worked its way down. that seems to be an issue with this system. I see the lights indicating a jack down fairly regularly. I've just been putting them up and forgetting about it but with the light not working I didn't know it was down.
To answer your questions the only level sensor is me and my two little levels. I will try to find the schematic but it will take a few days it's in the coach.
Take care
Jerry
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Jerry,
No rush. If you had a jack down far enough it may have well interfered with the air leveling system given that position of the coach would not be allowed to go down below the level of the fixed jack. No hurry on the schematic. Thanks again.
Later Ed
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Dick,
This may be a perfect time to have them cut the price by 6K more then any negotiated amount and instead of fixing the system have air leveling added if you are still interested in that coach. If it has the swing down TV option that was a 20K or so option and the first year it was offered, so that could be a plus. Always hard to know what to do when looking at a coach, good luck with your hunt.
Later Ed
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Jerry,
No rush. If you had a jack down far enough it may have well interfered with the air leveling system given that position of the coach would not be allowed to go down below the level of the fixed jack. No hurry on the schematic. Thanks again.
Later Ed
Oh it was definitely the jack. The coach leveled right up after I put the jack up. Just another lesson learned. Just like, on my coach the cruise control won't work unless the jake break is on! I know, go figure.
See ya
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Dick,
This may be a perfect time to have them cut the price by 6K more then any negotiated amount and instead of fixing the system have air leveling added if you are still interested in that coach. If it has the swing down TV option that was a 20K or so option and the first year it was offered, so that could be a plus. Always hard to know what to do when looking at a coach, good luck with your hunt.
Later Ed
Ed, I tried that but to no avail. Turns out it was a bad hose. Oh well, it was a good try but they promise the system will be perfect when finished. I think the concept of the frame jacks is OK and others that have them seem content with the effectiveness. It does have the replacement control panel that BCS designed so no complaint there.
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Ed, here you go!
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Jerry,
Thank you for doing that post. It looks like a set of manual switches to run the solenoid valves and pump. Very simple and pretty fool proof from what I can see.
Thanks Ed
Dick,
With the manual panel you should not have any real control panel issues from what I can tell. The pump seems to be a serviceable item. As long as the cylinders hold up you should be good to go. There is a good chance the cylinders will last for a good long time if one has not failed yet. If a cylinder failed on mine I would probably have air leveling installed so that is the expense downside. To spend $1500 to $2500 to get a cylinder replaced or repaired seems like money not well spent at this stage of the game. Just my opinion...
Later Ed
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Jerry: I read about you having Nandy changing you over too manual. I recenty contacted him about doing my 2001 Marquis Emerald. I am going to Florida 12-8-15 to try and get it done. Do you remember what he charged you ? He would not give me a ballpark figure. Thanks Joe Westbrook
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Joe, he did mine when he worked for Orlando RV as part of the deal when I bought it. I know he spent a lot of time on it but he did very neat work and made sure I had the schematics I posted before. Seems like a good guy but I don't know him well. I was impressed because of all the issues I had seen on this forum with getting the manual system installed. I wish you luck!
Jerry
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Dick, if you do get that coach and ever have an issue with one of the jacks I have both front ones from my coach(good shape) for sale.
I had them removed when HWH did an air conversion in July 2014. I sold one good rear one and still have the other leaking rear one........
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LaMonte, thanks for the offer. Yes we did buy the coach and so far the leveling jacks are working quite well. Took awhile to get used to them but so far so good and I'm even getting to like the frame leveling. No more punching post holes.