BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Keith Oliver on March 27, 2015, 08:05:41 PM
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This morning, as I went to use the macerator, I discovered no power at the pump. I have searched everywhere that I can think of for a fuse, but the closest thing I have found is in the PS end of the back wall closet, there is a relay that is labelled "water pump bay", but no fuses.
Back outside, i tried the other switches beside the macerator switch and got nothing from the electric hose reel, and a whimper only from the water hose reel. A renewed search for fuses for those items has turned up nothing.
I have a large format book of wiring diagrams, but it has no index and after 1/2 hour of flipping through it I have found no clues to where I should look for a fuse, or for anything else related to these components. I am stumped.
Luckily, I saved a good sewer hose from the old Contessa, so no dire consequences follow the loss of use of my macerator, but it is a good system that I do want to return to. Any ideas?
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Hi Keith, I believe the fuse panel is in the rear closet or the the overhead cabinet in the lavy depending on your model. Another place to look is in the engine compartment. On the right you will see a black cover approximately 14" by 18". Remove the cover and there is ATC fuses for various coach equiptment. Regards Fred
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Fred:
As the saying goes "You da Man!" That unlabelled box in the engine compartment contains all the missing fuses. Unfortunately, none are obviously blown, so no solution to the problem. I will go to an auto parts store for some good spare fuses and see if that has any effect. Notably, the non-functioning electrical reel and the whimpering water hose reel are on the same 15 amp circuit, so doesn't look like the fuse can be defective. The "San" fuse is 20 amp, which looks god and for which I don't see any spares.
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Keith:
Have you checked for one or two rocker type circuit breakers directly above your Elect reel switch and your water hose reel switch. I have an 08 Marquis and if one of these rocker CBs trip they will not work. You just toggle them back to reset. I don't know if yours is the same.
Good Luck Larry D.
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Larry:
Is that what those things are? On my coach, neither of those "rocker" circuit breakers will "rock". They look like you should put your little finger onto them and give a little rocking motion, but no amount of force will move them to any other position. On the water reel the label reads "4amps", on teh power cord reel "15amps".
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Keith,
Can you take a pic of the circuit breakers? On my PT it has the little rocker breakers and I have poped the hose reel one many times. Can you get at the back side of these switches and breakers to use a 12 volt test light to see it they actually have power to them? That would be a good start to see if there isn't a problem elsewhere.
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Keith:
Another suggestion is to give Monaco a call and ask for "technical", they have been very helpful and informative when I have had questions. Their number is 1-877-466-6226. This is the service center in Oregon.
The Rocker switches should move and if they don't, that might likely be the problem.
Once again, Good Luck. Larry D.
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Keith, That phone # 877-466 6226 is actually Allied Recreational Group which bought Monaco from Navastar. The reason i'm sharing this is to be aware of the expensive retail prices they charge. Maybe their tech support will advise on trouble-shoot your issue. Do you have 12volt power to the back of the rocker switch? Fred
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Fred:
You are correct, their prices are steep. Information is free. Usually my wife and I are successful in seeking the specific manufacture of the item at a much more reasonable price, if they are still in business. I had called Monaco for some limit switches for the retractable TV in the ceiling and they could not reference the item. Looked up the manufacture "TVLIFT" and they knew exactly what I needed at a reasonable price.
Larry D.
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Larry, This the kind of creative posts I like to read. Creative perserverance usually gets results! Fred
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(http://)I got out my test light this morning, early enough that I wans't blinded by the sunshine. All 3 switches at the water bay have some power. Enough that the test light glows dimly. That explains the whimper of the water hose reel when I first checked it, but is not enough for a whimper any more. Not enough to activate the elecrtical hose reel, nor the macerator.
Back at the panel by the engine, The whole sub panel containing the fuses for the reels and the macerator exhibits the same low voltage. The other sub-panels light up the test light fully. Wherever the power is coming from to energise these items: power reels, Cond Fan, RV San,Tow Marker, Step, and 2 Spare fuses, is failing. Any idea what that could be?
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Lee:
To follow up on your post, with the symptoms showing, I don't think the little breakers at the water bay are any part of the problem.
Larry and Fred:
Thanks for suggesting "Technical" I will call them first thing Monday, if This doesn't get sorted out before then.
Keith
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I know this sounds obvious but check the voltage at the batteries.
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Steve:
I know that should have been the first thing checked. I didn't, until I read your post. 3.8v on the chassis batteries, 11.8 on the house side.
The day before I had the macerator fail, I had turned on the ignition to fine tune the levelling and all was well. Now, when I turn on the ignition, I get nothing. So the chassis batteries are now on a separate 10 amp charger. Those are less than a year old, so hopefully this, their first deep discharge, will not kill them. Then I need to find out why, while plugged into shore power, with the inv/charger showing 11.8 and float, there was no charging happening.
I also connected to my car battery and all the stuff n the water bay works just fine.
Big thanks to Steve, Fred, Larry, Lee.
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Kieth
Been there done that. Only took me most of the day trouble shooting things that quit working when I finally checked the chassis batteries. The charge circuit wire had corroded at the batteries to the point of not working. Hope the batteries survive. I lost one of mine, they were about 5 or 6 years old
Good luck
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At this moment the diagnosis is incomplete, but the likely culprit seems to be the "Big Boy". That is a $200 part that seems to be "out of stock" at the wholesaler, so I am searching other vendors, as is the tech guy who did the diagnosis.
My chassis batteries were new last June, so hopefully will survive this deep discharge.
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Keith,
At that price, I would consider one of the more robust and less problematic Blue Sea Marine systems as a replacement for your factory installed "Bird" system.
Gerald
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Keith, Did the technician check the battery isolator relay delay "BIRD" that is located in that engine compartment? That is the controller that tells the "Big Boy" relay when to engage and charge the chassis batteries. Fred
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Fred:
I followed his directions on checking things. There is a yellow button that is supposed to cycle the Big Boy, I also measured V at each of the terminals of the Big Boy. The V is supposed to be the same across those terminals, but isn't. I turned off the shore power and with high 90s heat, it didn't take long to bring the house battery voltage down below the 12.4v set point, where the Big Boy actually cycled, but still didn't make the output voltage equal. Other than that, I don't know what else he is relying on for the "failure" diagnosis. I will check the "Bird" if I can. What does it look like? how do I check it?
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You might also check this thread on irv2.com: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/big-boy-trouble-shooting-237860.html and this one: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/solved-many-electrical-problems-229047.html . The first one also talks about BIRD and has a link to additional troubleshooting information.
It's apparently a common problem and the relay can actually be cleaned, rather than having to replace it.
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Keith, Did you check out the threads that Bill posted? I did not know you could take them apart. If you are so inclined go ahead and disassemble and clean it. CAUTION taking the cables off. Shorted wrenches will melt the ring right off your finger. To answer your question, with the coach plugged in and converter voltage is above 13.2 volts one of the little terminals on top of the "Big Boy" will have voltage to it and that is what makes the solenoid engage. If you can hear the solenoid engage and the voltage is NOT equal at the large terminals then the issue is inside the solenoid. Fred
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I can close off this thread now. I bought the $200 relay and installed it. Everything is now working properly. I took the old one apart. It is a simple solenoid. It isn't electronic and its not a relay. It has two terminals with #awg 20 or so wires that excite the solenoid, moving a heavy metal lump to compress a spring and bring another heavy lump of copper against the two big terminals that have #00 or so, wires attached and that close a circuit between the two sets of batteries. Those terminals and the second metal lump are covered in green and black corrosion, so not making good, if any contact. those corroded terminals are within the end cap of the solenoid, protected from moisture by gaskets. Ha! All the gaskets seem to do is to make sure any moisture that enters can never leave, thus encouraging a quick death when the moisture enters. ( We are is the desert! It is very dry here. I haven't seen moisture anywhere, yet this solenoid has enough inside that end cap to kill it!). We are returning to BC next week, where it rains a lot. hopefully the new solenoid will be happier in the rain than it has been in the desert.