BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bill Drout on May 11, 2020, 04:50:11 AM
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I recently changed the front passenger bearing hub cap that had a slow leak around the gasket at the base. When I did I noticed that the original magnet had metal shavings on it (see last picture). I pulled the other side (which has never been changed) and found the same. The new hub cap came with a new magnet. After replacing the hub cap and driving the RV a short distance (about 6 miles), I pulled the magnet and found fresh metal shards. To the best of my knowledge, neither one of these bearings has run out of oil. The wheel bearings make no noise going down the road and give me no other indication of trouble. But finding much metal in the oil is a bit disconcerting. Should I be concerned about this?
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if that amount of metal dust was on a differential or oil pan drain, I would say it is normal and don't worry about it. But as this is a front wheel hub (much smaller capacity) I think it is something to address. I would suggest you pull the wheel hubs on both side and inspect/replace the bearings and seals.
It's due for a service and inspection now.
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Bill
The size of the fillings you have there are an indication of a pending bearing failure.
My guess is when the bearings where last changed they only changed the bearings and not the races or they where preloaded too tight you will find when you get it apart that the races are pitted and you have metal transferring to the bearing rollers at this point the hardened surface has been breached and the only fix is to replace all the bearings and races and seals and make sure you wash all of the residual metal and dirt from the hubs before reinstalling the new races.
This needs to be done now there should be no metal on those magnets the fact that there is and there is so much means these bearings are on there way out and will fail in likely the next couple hundred miles.
Good luck
Eric
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Thanks for the input.
Does anyone have any manufacturer and part number information for the bearings, hubs, and rotors that went on the front of the 98 Patriots?
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Bill
I haven't got any numbers yet but I'm going to pull the front brakes apart in as so as I get good weather Im going to put new rotors,pads ,calipers flex lines and seals and maybe even bearings we will see when I get in there I'll try to get part numbers for you.
I'm also preparing to move the front axle and move up to 275/70 R22.5 Toyo M170 tires.
I'll get back to you
Eric
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Hi Bill
I've just taken my 1997 Patriot apart and pulled numbers so here we go.
I don't have the races out so I can't give you a number on them but a good parts man should be able to work out the ones you need from the bearings.
Inner wheel bearing ....................Bower HM212049X
Outter wheel bearing....................Hyat 3782
Front axle seal...,..........................Stemco 383-0136
Front rotor.....,...............................Centric 12079023
Front caliper same right and left.Centric 14179001
Caliper mounting hardware kit.....Centric 11779003
Front pads..................................... Centric10602360
Hope this helps
Eric
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I have been checking around and cannot find anyone that sells a magnetic plug/cap that fits on to the hub seal unit. I was thinking about installing them on my front wheels as an early warning. Any idea where I can find them?
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Fred
To be honest untill now I had never seen magnetic fill caps on any hub covers and I've literally had thousands of these things apart maybe there is a part number or manufacturer name on his we could research.
The aren't a bad idea although by the time any metal shows up on the magnet the bearings are already in trouble but at least it would be a tell tail which could be check periodically.
Eric
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Hi Fred,
I cannot say whether the caps on my 98 Patriot will fit your front axle, but here are the notes I have on my caps in case it is helpful:
Chicago Rawhide - Now owned by SKF
Original part number: CR 1611
Existing hubs are plastic/nylon.
Now superseded by CR 1612 (per SKF)
SKF CR1612 with a 4.5" bolt circle
Link to SKF TF hubcaps:
https://www.vsm.skf.com/us/en/product-assortment/heavy-duty/wheel-end/hubcaps-accessories#hubcaps_and_accessories
I picked up mine at FleetPride. Their manufacturer code/part number is 510/1612B-100 which is a package that includes the cap (with magnet and plug), hub to cap seal, and new bolts for $24.12 plus tax.
Hope that helps...
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Thanks Bill. I will check it out.
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Hi Eric,
Thank you very much for posting all of those part numbers. I haven't pulled the wheels yet, but all of the parts look correct for my coach as well based on the data I'm seeing on the internet and from what I'm able to see and measure on the coach.
For the benefit of others, cross referencing the part numbers above indicates that the front rotors, brake pads, and calipers also went on a 1997 Ford F800 with the dual 2.88" piston calipers. That model year also had 2.5" calipers, so it's important to confirm the correct caliper piston when ordering. I find this information helpful because parts houses always want to know what vehicle the parts are for when looking them up, and they give me the RCA dog look when I say "1998 Beaver Patriot".
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That's very helpful information, but might be hard for someone to find later doing a site search.
Perhaps one of Moderators can rename this thread "front brakes, calipers, rotors, and bearings - part numbers for 1997-1998 Patriot" or similar.
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Bill
The original calipers were a Dayton brake setup with 2.88 inch front calipers the way to check quickly is to look on the calipers for the casting number it should be 578 or 456 which will tell you that they are 2.88 inch.
The front and rear calipers are the same .
I discovered that the brake parts or at least some of them were the same on the 97 ford f700 and some international 3800 series but as you pointed out you have to verify caliper size.
The flex lines are harder to get the lengths you need on my coach the front brake lines have been replaced and now run on the outside of the frame rails instead of behind the fuel tank so I ended up using 43 inch flex lines from some of the international 3800 series they are male one end and female on the other which works with my configuration.
Hope yours goes well
Good luck
Eric
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Hi Mike,
Agreed that it's probably appropriate to change the name of the thread at this point in time. It would be interesting to know if the forum site supports that. If not then perhaps I could start a new thread with that title and condense the information into a single post.
Since we've got everything else on here, it's probably also worth mentioning that the wheel hub themselves have a casting number "15597 N" which also appears to be a Ford part number for a 1996/1997/1998 Ford F800. I didn't see new hubs for sale (not that I'm expecting to need one), but there were several used parts listed when searching for "ford wheel hub 15597".
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Bill, if you're doing the work yourself, and you have time, post a photo of the bearing races and rollers - if there is obvious signs of a failure starting.
It looked like a lot of metal on the magnet and it would be interesting to see how bad the bearings are.
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I probably will not do the work myself, but I have a good relationship with the shop foreman and will ask him to keep the parts along with which side of the axle they came from.
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Bill
Eric here with an update on my project after cleaning all the parts up from my front brake job I noticed very light rust shadowing on my onboard wheel bearing rollers and decided to replace both inner bearings and races .
I imagine that's what's happened to yours overtime the rust breaks through the hardening and metal transfer begins rendering the bearings useless in a short period of time.
Hope this helps explain how even relatively new bearings can go bad.
If you get pics of the dead bearings I may be able to tell you what caused your failure.
Good luck
Eric