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31

Technical Support / Re: replacing brake lines on a 1998 Beaver Patriot Savannah.

« Last post by Eric Wallace on April 20, 2024, 08:11:35 PM »

Thanks so much for the quick reply, Eric.
My local FleetPride has that caliper part number in stock. 
I'll verify with them the material of the pistons.
After re-reading all the brake problem posts on this forum it appears the
problem with the phenolic pistons is that water in the system causes them to swell.
A periodic complete purge and refill with new fluid should help that situation if I
can't find anything but phenolic pistons.
Again, thanks for all the information.
Eric

32

Technical Support / Re: replacing brake lines on a 1998 Beaver Patriot Savannah.

« Last post by Eric Maclean on April 20, 2024, 07:11:46 PM »

Eric
There are a lot of things that can cause the brakes to smoke any of the below can contribute to a tight brake .
1) although technically no a brake problem and hub seal leak can cause smoking and burning
2). Bad or overheating wheel bearings can contribute to number (1).
3) as you described phenolic brake caliper pistons can absorb moisture and swell in their bores.
4) incorrect brake fluid can cause caliper seals to swell and hold caliper piston/s extended.
5) bad or incorrectly installed caliper seals.( During caliper rebuild )
6) moisture the brake fluid causing rush with in the calipers ( the lowest point in the system)
  CAUTION moisture also lowers the building point of the brake fluid and can lead to brake fluid boiling and brake failure.
7) caliper slides too tight or not maintained or cleaned properly.
bad brake flex lines ( as they get old the inner lining can collapse causing the flex line to work like a check valve holding pressure on the caliper.
9) a bad master cylinder or poorly adjusted master cylinder actuator rod can cause the master cylinder piston to not return back far enough to uncover the compensator port in the master cylinder causing the brakes to drag ( worst when they are hot as the fluid expands has no where to go and applies
 pressure to the caliper)
10) on an air over system the treadle valve ( brake pedal) may be sticking and not releasing the brakes fully ( the pedal itself will sometimes get seized)

With that said I assume you have air over hydraulic brakes on your coach ( correct me if I'm wrong ) it may be hydraulic over hydraulic.
The easiest way to diagnose a hydraulic problem is to loosen a bleeder screw when the problem is exhibited if loosening the bleeder screw allows the wheel to turn freely the problem is likely a flex line or master cylinder and not the caliper itself
Your front brake system will have three flex lines one at each front wheel and one at the master cylinder for the front brakes .

Most of these parts are off the shelf parts used on medium duty trucks of the era ( Ford , International , Freightliner.)

BRAKE PARTS
Front wheel bearing    inner=  Bower #HM212049X
                                       Outer=.Hyatt. #3782
                             Outer race=. Hyatt  =3720
Brake flex lines.          Front=  Raybestos. #BH383373. = 42"
                                                    Raybestos  #BH381081. = 40 1/2 "
                                                   Raybestos   #BH381082  =  39 "

Front hub seal.                   =   stemco #383-0136

Front brake rotor.               =  Centric  12079023

Front brake calipers          = centric #14179001. Or Bendix #55252.   ( Note calipers are same right and left and front and rear)
Front caliper hardware kit= centric #11779003  ( this is the guide spring and wedge kit for the caliper mounting) does one axle or two calipers.

Front brake pads.             = centric #10602360.   Or Dayton D236

Front brake converter with master cylinder = Haldex # N37216c

Below is a link to the centric caliper which states the piston material is steel { I'd assume stainless steel )

https://www.showmetheparts.com/centric-parts/centric-14179001.html


Hope this helps
Eric

33

Technical Support / Aladdin calibration

« Last post by Eric Maclean on April 20, 2024, 05:40:35 PM »

For those of you which have an Aladdin monitor system and would like to know how to calibrate your tanks to get proper readings
Here is a link to a video that the you tube AZ expert posted on the subject.

https://youtu.be/ToJz9LifIuI?si=vyzDjun-8m4DutE9

Hope this helps someone
Eric

34

Technical Support / Re: replacing brake lines on a 1998 Beaver Patriot Savannah.

« Last post by Eric Wallace on April 20, 2024, 04:56:22 PM »

This topic has not been added to in awhile, but I hope it will still be seen by some of you who have done your own brake work, particularly front, on Beavers near my build date, 2001.  I have the 33' Monterey Trinidad model.  I have had three different truck shops do my front brakes in the last ten years, with very low mileage in between jobs - anywhere from 4000 to 7000 miles.  The problem shows up exclusively on the right front side. Generally, it starts while/after descending grades, which is understandable, but I do come down slowly, always use my PacBrake, and operate the pedal gingerly, knowing I have an ongoing problem.  The right front begins to smell, then smokes, and occasionally has started little spots of fire on various surfaces of the hub and caliper, presumably from leaking fluids.  The shops act dumbfounded and give me no assistance after multi thousand dollar jobs.  I won't use them again.  I have done all my car and pickup brakes since high school (55 years) but haven't wanted to deal with size and weight issues of my Beaver front end parts.  Well, that reticence is finally gone.  I've invested in heavy duty impacts, torque wrench, Jack stands, etc. and have started the work.  My right front wheel/hub/brake assembly is all apart.  I am going to replace the whole brake line system as others have written about, both hard lines and flex. I discovered the phenolic pistons in the most recently installed front calipers were totally frozen in the bores.  My problem now is I have found the correct calipers, but not ones that don't have the phenolic pistons that others have said can cause lock up problems.  Have any of you been able to find a source for calipers with an alternate piston material than phenolic?
Also, any ideas on whether a defective master cylinder and/or booster pump might be causing some of the overheating?  As long as I'm this deep in, I'm committed to doing the whole thing as right as I can.  After spending many thousands at shops to no avail,  I'm OK with spending a few thousand for the peace of mind that an all "new" system will give me. 
Thanks for any advice you might have.
Eric

35

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Frank Bergamo on April 20, 2024, 03:27:27 PM »

You shouldn’t need a bunch of leverage on the nut. If it’s that tight, and still drips, then the O-ring needs replacing. It’s the nut up against the pump housing that we are talking about, not the hydraulic line fitting nut.

36

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Don Forsyth on April 20, 2024, 01:31:08 PM »

Okay, I'll try to tighten again. Maybe I need some leverage. I just about gave myself a hemroid trying to move that nut. It won't go in either direction. It is snowing here now, so I will go to the storage lot next week to see what I can do.
Thank you,

37

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Frank Bergamo on April 19, 2024, 04:55:51 PM »

Very little should leak out if you need to replace O-ring. First, snug up the nut, that should take care of your drip.

38

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Eric Maclean on April 19, 2024, 03:55:55 PM »

Don
As Frank pointed out the hydraulic fitting in question is what is known as an ORB ( O ring based fitting) . They are designed to be treated in and don't tighten up on the threads like a pipe thread does instead the stay loose in the valve block which allows you to position the fitting to the desired angle to allow hose connections to be where you need them.
One the fitting is threaded in and positioned correctly the jamb nut is tightened against the O ring which seals and locks the fitting in place.
It is common for the vibration from the running engine to loosen these type of fittings
As Frank pointed out if simply retightening the jamb nut doesn't solve the leak you may have to remove the fitting and replace the O ring.

Eric

39

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Don Forsyth on April 19, 2024, 02:28:20 PM »

Thank you Frank,
If I do wind up replacing the o ring I assume I will have to drain the pump and reservoir. Is that true?

40

Technical Support / Re: Hydraulic pump leak

« Last post by Frank Bergamo on April 18, 2024, 11:19:20 PM »

The fitting that goes into the pump housing is a O-ring fitting. Rotate the elbow fitting where it lines up with the hose fitting then snug it down. That should fix the drip. If not, then back out the nut to access the O-ring and replace O-ring and reassemble. Hope this helps.