BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: John Hennessey on September 24, 2012, 10:54:02 PM
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Has anyone had the experience of the C12 engine shutting down and restarting itself while driving? It has happened twice while driving on the freeway and once while sitting at a stop sign. While at the stop sign I had to turn the ignition key 3 times before it started right off and I drove to my destination. On the freeway it just started back up without my touching the ignition. Injector solenoid maybe or what?
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My first instinct would be a loose ignition wire, right behind the dash. But it could be a chassis ground somewhere. Intermittent operations like that often point to loose or corroded grounds.
But Gerald or Ed are more experienced than I in this dept.
Joel
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A BAC friend nearby told me this happened to him driving through the maddening traffic of Atlanta (twice) and he discovered that the ignition key was on a ring with a dozen other keys, etc. and the weight of all of it was causing the ignition to cut off. How much weight do you have on your keyring?
I've now put my ignition key on a ring with just it and the door key.
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John,
The highest probability of the cause of your problem is the solenoid in the left front electrical bay that is controlled by the ignition switch..
Gerald
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I had this same issue and found that as Gerald indicated the ignition solenoid in the electrical bay had failed. I replaced the mechanical solenoid with a solid state unit.
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Larry, what part number did you replace your mechanical solenoid with to convert it to and electronic solenoid and where did you get it? Sounds like a good idea.
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hi John, check out this link: http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/197/48785/
After my rig died on an off ramp, the $150 price tag was well worth the piece of mind in my opinion. I think I bought mine from ASE Supply but can't remember. Installed 3 years ago problem solved. Call around for the best price. Easy to install.
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I forgot to mention that the speedometer also jumps when idling. Not the tach just the speedometer.
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Just wanted to drop a note of a thousand one thanks. I was having the same problem with engine shutting off. Went to the web site and saw where Gerald said to replace solenoid. Up and running, running and running. Thanks again Jim Bentley :) :)
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I had the same problem on my 96 Monterey. Stopped by a NAPA store and they matched up the old one to find a replacement. No more shut downs.
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I would like to replace my mechanical solenoid with the electronic model. Can anyone describe or send a picture of the mechanical solenoid so I know what to replace?
Bill stireman
'04 Monterey Laguna
C-9 400 hp Cat
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Replaced both the ignition switch and put in an electronic solenoid. No more shut downs!!! Thanks!!!!
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I would like to replace my mechanical solenoid with the electronic model. Can anyone describe or send a picture of the mechanical solenoid so I know what to replace?
Bill stireman
'04 Monterey Laguna
C-9 400 hp Cat
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Larry & Heide - thanks for the photos. I will order the electronic solenoid today.
Bill Stireman
40' '04 Monterey Laguna
C-9 400 HP Cat
wintering in the beautiful Florida Keys
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hi John, check out this link: http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/197/48785/
After my rig died on an off ramp, the $150 price tag was well worth the piece of mind in my opinion. I think I bought mine from ASE Supply but can't remember. Installed 3 years ago problem solved. Call around for the best price. Easy to install.
Bought one today. Found new on Ebay for $99.00 including shipping.
Bill Stireman
40' '04 Monterey Laguna
400 HP Cat C-9
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My Cole Hersee electronic ignition arrived today. Would anyone be willing to detail to me what wires go where? I am not electrically inclined. Should I hire someone to install it? It looks intimidating.
Bill Stireman
40 ft '04 Monterey Laguna
C-9 400 HP Cat
'11 GMC Sierra Crew Cab 1500 tow
wintering in the beautiful Florida Keys
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Bill,
There are two small wires one red and one black. Those are used to trigger the unit on or off using the ignition switch as a source, One of the small wires on the existing solenoid goes to ground. That wire would be tied to the small black wire. The small red wire gets connected to the small wire on the existing solenoid that sees approximately 12V when you turn on the ignition switch. There are two larger termnals on the Cole Hersee unit, one is a plus terminal and one is a minus. With the ignition off one of the larger terminals/wires on the existing mechanical solenoid should have 12V on it. That wire would go to the + terminal. One side of the existing solenoid should have approximately 0V on it with the ignition off, that side would go to the - Terminal. These solenoids, mechanical or electronic, can be wired with what is referred to as high side switching (load is placed on 12v side before the solenoid) or low side switching (load is placed on the ground side after the solenoid). In either case the readings that I listed here would work for sorting out the wiring for the new Cole Hersee.
Later Ed
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I'm puzzled as to why we would want to replace the solenoid with an electronic one before any problems have been noticed. Cars have been using solenoids like this for a hundred years; they aren't inherently a problem. Other than replacing one in an old piece of machinery I had around my farm I can't recall ever having replaced one. I can understand that people would like to avoid having breakdown problems, but there are dozens of things on my coach I could choose to replace before they failed. I can't afford to do most of them and I'm not sure why I would choose this one to start with.
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I think Bill is concerned about having to deal with on-the-road shutdowns like others have experienced here, and wants to stave off such an inconvenience. Given I also experienced weird starting issues in Midwest heat this summer, a problem that stopped in cooler climes, I'm also considering going electronic as a pre-emptory move, or as one that optimizes my system, depending on how you look at it. Among the dozens of things I can replace on the rig, most of which as you say aren't cost effective (and I agree), I'd say this particular one might be cost effective given the level of potential inconvenience it would prevent.
I too rarely had a problem with the old "Ford" type solenoids on the farm, but it can happen. The emergency boost solenoid on our old Pace Arrow quit on me once when I needed it, and I had to jumper the main connections to transfer house bat power to the starter. The contacts inside can carbon up or burn eventually, which I would presume is not an issue with electronic units. I've also found that there can be variability in quality with mechanical solenoids, and that you get what you pay for.
By the way Bill, when you disconnect the big red wire to the old solenoid, be sure you cover and protect the its lead so you don't accidentally ground it on something while you're dismounting the old solenoid and mounting the new one - that heavy wire can carry a lot of amps. And be careful when removing the nut on the big red wire's post that your wrench handle doesn't swing into an adjacent component. Then bend the wire out of the way and tape it until you have the electronic unit mounted and are ready to connect the big red wire to its positive post.
Joel
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I appreciate the instructions on how to install but have a question. The existing solenoid has a little jumper wire between the two big stud terminals. (see photo) Should I install that jumper between the studs on the electronic model?
Bill Stireman 40 ft '04 Monterey Laguna
C-9 400 HP Cat
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Bill,
In your photo the very large wire on the left that goes to the big stud on the side of the solenoid would indicate that it is the 12 V feed. That wire would be connected to the + stud on the Cole Hersee along with the other large gauge wire going to the copper buss. The two wires on the other large stud on the opposite side of the solenoid would go to the - stud on the Cole Hersee. The buss on the left would be powered all the time by the way it is wired and the buss on the right gets powered with the ignition on. This is the high side switching configuration.
The jumper on the small terminals is the protection diode. By the way the diode is marked the +12v terminal is on the left and that wire would be connected to the 12V red wire on the Cole Hersee. The wire on the small right terminal would be connected to the black wire on the Cole Hersee. The diode was there to short out an inductive kick back when the magnetic field in the solenoid collapsed when you removed the power by turning off the ignition. Momentarily the solenoid becomes an uncontrolled voltage generator and the spikes are destructive to electronics. The solid state version has no magnetized wire coil and therefor no inductive kick back is generated. You can remove the diode when you install the Cole Hersee solid state device.
For those of us that might have this fail on the road you could premake a jumper with the right lugs or drill a piece of copper buss that would connect between the buss screw terminals with the large red solenoid wires on them to tie the two busses together just as the solenoid does. Gerald has covered this option in the past as a temporary measure I believe.
Later Ed
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Thanks Ed.
Bill Stireman
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Bill,
Your welcome, have some fun with the project.
Later Ed