BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jim Chambers on June 23, 2010, 03:29:46 PM
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Still learning about my new to me '01 Patriot with Hydro Hot system. Records indicate that the entire unit was replaced a year ago.
With diesel and electric on, I am able to shower without mixing any cold water with the hot. The temperature is warm, but not hot. It is tolerable, but I would like hotter water. Is there an adjustment? Or is warm water all I should expect?
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Jim, the first thing to check is the outside water faucet if your coach has one. The valves must be off or it will act like a mixing valve and provide only warm water. I presume you have verified the diesel burner is operating so check this out before we go to the temperature adjustment valve. The outside faucet is the most likely culprit.
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Jim, my unit has a mixing valve that can be reached from the rear access panel on the AquaHot . My unit was running too hot and a minor adjustment of the mixing valve did the trick. If memory serves me correct, clockwise increases temperature and a quarter turn is a significant change. You may want to check there first.
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Only outside faucet is a sprayer hose in the utility bay. It has cold and hot valves which are both off.
Not sure where the rear access panel is located. There is what appears to be a removable panel on the front half of the top of the unit.
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Jim-
You can always call AquaHot Systems at (800) 685-4298 and ask for assistance. If you don't have a manual, while on the phone ask them to send you one. Loren at Beaver Coach Sales there in Bend may be able to help as well, (800) 843-2967.
-Joel
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Jim, The rear panel is removed from underneath the coach. If you have a small mirror and flashlight look on the back side of the h.h. unit and there will be a valve with a plastic knob on it. That is the temperature adjusting valve. Turning clockwise increases temp.
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If adjusting the temperature does not change the water temp, you can purchase a Temperature Valve Kit Part # PLX-4A8-18R. Replace the insides like a water faucet. If I can do it, you can also. To help you feel more secure, download the manuals ( Maintenance, Parts, Shop etc.) for your model from:
http://www.hydro-hot.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/default/RV_Home.aspx
We also have a trained expert BAC member who will probably step in here soon to advise you.
Larry
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Thanks to all. I gather from the responses that the system should be providing hot rather than warm water. We are camping in Portland this week so I will attack the problem when we get home. Probably best not to fool with it now. I might end up with cold showers!
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Hi Jim, what did you have in there before the HydroHot? A Hurricane? Just wondering, Mike
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Coach always equipped with Hydro Hot. I mistated earlier. Records indicate "complete rebuild of Hydro Hot, April 2009", $1835.
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We had cold water when we got ours and it was a mixing valve issue. The coolent the heat exchanger goes through is 180 degrees so cold water is mixed to cool it down.
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We'll ass-umm you've checked the aqua-hot fluid is topped off.
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To answer your question, it should be VERY hot. Mine runs hot enough to be quite painful.
Marc Rodstein
2003 Monterey
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The reservoir is filled to about an inch and a half above the "cold" line when the tank is warm to the touch (electric power on all day, diesel off).
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Jim, your Hydro Hot should make consistent hot water until you run out of diesel. You should be able to shower for a couple of weeks straight!
A couple of years ago, mine stopped making "hot" water and started to produce only "warm". The Beaver Coach Sales Service Center had trouble figuring it out. They decided to replace the mixing valve on the back of the unit because they thought it was "stuck". It didn't get any better. Then they zeroed in on the "stir pump" and replaced that, which fixed it.
The new mix valve came with a tag on it that said it should be "exercised" by twisting the knob and resetting to the same spot once a year. That suggestion does not show up in any of my Hydro Hot books.
The stir pump is located at the lower right front corner. It looks similar to the pair of circulation pumps on the left. Its purpose is to "stir" the coolant in the tank when there is a demand for hot water. As I recall, trouble shooting is simple. With your fingers, test the temperature of the hose attached to it when the system is not making heat or hot water. Turn on the hot water at the sink. The stir pump motor should run and the hoses attached to it should get warmer to the touch. On mine, the motor ran but the hoses didn't heat up. The old pump was dismantled and the unusual internal magnetic clutch assembly was in bits! The motor was running but the pump was not pumping.
My opinion of the Hydro Hot varies. When it is working, it is one of the best systems in the coach. When it malfunctions, it is by far the worst system in the coach. It is very hard to find technicians that truly understand the maze of pumps, sensors, switches, hoses, lights, circuit boards, relays, etc. One exception is Roger Burke who has developed a business and Yahoo group around the Hydro Hot.
Roger maintains a full inventory of parts that he sells at a small discount and he will coach you on doing repairs. My electric element failed. Replacement should have been simple if Beaver had not neglected to install a coolant drain. With Roger's help we invented a way to drain the coolant without a drain! Roger also rebuild components and sell them where appropriate. He writes.pdf files covering routine repairs and service for download. For example, the frequently failing float switch has an easy temporary fix with a "jumper" wire that will get you by until you can do the full repair. The fun part of Roger's approach to the Hydro Hot is that he is the administrator for his Hydronic RV Heating Yahoo group. If you join, you will get frequent emails about real issues being fixed with advice from him and others. Over time you will begin to understand how the darn thing works!
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Hey Bill, thanks for the alert to Roger's site. In addition to our own resident hydronics expert(s), that other forum will be quite useful. As will the other info in your post.
'preciate it!! ;)
-Joel
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Thank you very much Bill. I am confused as to where the mixing valve is located. Is it accessible through the top front cover? Or do I reach it from under the coach?
I assume the stir pump and circulation pumps are under the top front cover.
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Mine is different than yours, since around 2003 a good deal of the controls went from mechanical to electronic. But the mixing valve is under the HydroHot's front cover on mine, and since it is merely a way of controling how much cold water is added to the outbound hot water, I would expect it to be just about in the same place on most units. I'm sure another '01 model year owner will chime in here, and Gerald probably knows, or Orman Claxton, but in the meantime you might check "under the hood" of your unit by removing a few screws. The valve may be fairly accessible there and easily adjusted.
My owner's manual has very good illustrations marking the locations of components. You may be able to access manuals and illustrations for your model via Roger Burke's site, or enlist his assistance, here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HydronicRVHeating/.
-Joel
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I am waiting for admission to Roger Berke's Yahoo forum. In the meantime here is a pic of my unit, HHE 500-03M. Aqua hot's archives do not include a manual for it but I have downloaded the manual for 500-05 and it does not help me. I have looked underneath the coach and the entire unit is enclosed in sheet metal so no apparent access to the mixing valve. I would like to exercise it if only I could find it!
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If you go to yahoo and enter aquahot.com it displays numerous options for Aqua Hot. When you find the home page schroll all the way down and click on manuals. On the next page schroll all the way down to archived manuals. When you get into the archived select the Hydro Hot 500-07m shop manual. Then schroll down to component location , the first being the front of the unit and the second being the rear of the unit. The mixing valve is clearly marked so you will be able to see where it is located on the unit. As I said before you can see it from the back of the unit with a mirror. If this still leaves you in the dark feel free to call me at 405 642 0389 and I will be glad to talk you through it.
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Thank you George. Found the diagrams and see the mixing valve. Apparently there is a cover I must remove on the rear of the unit under the coach. When I reach up there I only feel sheet metal.
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[quote author=]Thank you George. Found the diagrams and see the mixing valve. Apparently there is a cover I must remove on the rear of the unit under the coach. When I reach up there I only feel sheet metal.[/quote]
Yes, there is a cover on the rear. It is a rectangular piece sheet of metal held in place by about 20 sheet metal screws. On mine, the screws had been overtightened by Beaver making them spin in their holes when trying to unscrew them. You may want to have a hand full of screws one size bigger when you put it back on.
Once the panel is off, the mixing valve will be obvious. As I recall it has three hoses attached. The two inlets are "really hot" and "cold". The outlet is "normally hot". The valve operates automatically like a thermostat. They say it can get "stuck" do to hard water deposits. If you can't rotate the adjustment knob, yours is stuck. They say that you might be able to "unstick" it by rotating fully both directions and replacing it to the initial position.
Hydrohot has a book with step by step trouble shooting procedures in it. I have a printed copy for my model, but I think you can download a .pdf for yours.
If you do take the back panel off, I think you can trouble shoot a little by touching the hoses attached. With the diesel running and a hot water knob on inside you should be able to detect a temperature difference between the "really hot" coming out of the Hydro Hot and the "normally hot" going to the coach system. If the "really hot" is not, you probably have another problem.
Does anybody know if you can dip an instant read cooking thermometer into the coolant at the cap and measure a "standard" temperature. I'm guessing you can and it should be well above 120F.
You may be able to reach the knob from the front. Depending on your installation you may need to be skinny or have extra long arms. I can barely reach mine but I can't see what I'm doing.
Good luck!
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Making some progress. I can almost crawl into the compartment and look at the back of the unit and see the valve.
Attached is a pic from the top. It appears as though the valve is the gray knurled knob. I can see a number "1" on the side of the knob and a number "3" on the opposite side using a mirror. I can reach the knob with my long skinny arm but cannot turn it. Maybe "frozen" as suggested. Earlier advice says to rotate 1/4 turn clockwise. Since I am viewing from above I am guessing I should turn in counter clockwise to increase heat.
Dare I reach in there with a pair of channel locks to try to turn the knob?
Finally, I see that my reservoir shows no fluid when cold. It was only about an inch above the "cold" line when warm. I checked the manual and it says check only when hot. So why a cold line on the reservoir if it is meaningless?
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Glad to see you are on the right track now. The adjusting knob most likely is frozen from lack of movement so go ahead with the channel locks but don't go gorilla on it. The worst case is you may have to remove the valve , put it in a vise so it can be disassembled for cleaning and new seals. If my memory is correct you will have to hold the valve body with a wrench since it is not mounted solidly. Be advised also that the adjusting knob may have a rotation limiting arm installed.
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Got this belated message from Roger in response to an inquiry re. your problem:
Joel
Sorry for delay. Your message ended up in my spam folder.
The mixing valve on a Hydro-Hot is in the back of the Hydro-Hot. In many Beaver Coaches you have to get under the coach and remove a panel on the back of the bay to access the back of the Hydro-Hot.
Once you have access to the back of the Hydro-Hot you should exercise the valve. Note where the knob is located. Turn the knob all the way on, then all the way off. Check water temperature. That will normally correct the low water temperature problem. If needed you can adjust the temperature on the knob. The straight hot water should be no higher than 120 degrees in the coach.
Photo of back is attached. Mixing valve has gray knob. Should be set at #2. Note that the valve is installed backwards. The #2 lines up with mark on back of mixing valve (that you cant see). When properly set the number 4 should be what you see.
- Roger Berke -
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Thanks Joel. I tried to reach the knob with channel locks by crawling in the bay but could not get a grip what with all the hoses, etc.
I think I will need to go under and remove the back panel. Frankly, I am a bit timid about going under the coach with so little clearance. Very used to working under cars, but the big "truck" chassis is a bit intimidating. Can't just jack it up and use jackstands! Maybe have to surrender and take it to Beaver since I live in Bend.
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Jim,
You may want to try driving the coach up on 4x12 blocks. It worked for me.
Larry
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Jim,
Getting to the back of the Hydro Hot is not too bad. It helps to run the front wheels up on boards. Opening the bay doors also gives you a little extra tummy room. I'm not at the rig now and I can't remember which way I got to the back of the Hydro Hot. It was either directly under the side or from the front with the genset out.
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Hi Jim
I am the Aqua-Hot Factory Trained tech mentioned above. If you would give me call, maybe I can talk you through.
My # is Two-zero-Six-660 9893.
Right now I am in the NW, I am headed south into Oregon the next two weeks.
thanks
Orman Claxton
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Thank you all for your help. I got it done I think. First, I realized that the coach was sitting down. Once I aired it up it was easy to crawl under and remove the back panel from the unit. The adjustment knob on the mixing valve was indeed "frozen" with the pointer at 4. I had to use channel locks to move it. I turned it to both extremes and then tried setting 2 (it now turned by hand). Fired it up and checked water temp with meat thermometer. Not good. Put it back at 4 and got 115-120 degrees at the kitchen sink. Apparently, as mentioned above, simply exercising the valve is all that is required. Won't test the shower until our scheduled trip to the Oregon coast in a couple of weeks. Hope someday I learn enough to help others on this forum. But for now I'm sure I'll be asking for more help in the future.