BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Joey and Jackie Cashen on July 20, 2010, 08:57:00 PM
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2001 Marquis(455 Cat) I keep my coach plugged into 50 amp power. I have not run the engine for 2 months. When I stated the coach today the voltage was 12.4. It soon rose to 13.8 with the engine running. I would have expected the voltage to be at 13.8 with constant 50 amp power. The batteries were replaced 6 months ago and water level is OK. Is this drop common or do I have electrial problem?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Joe Cashen
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Hi Joe,
I really don't know much about the voltage but are you referring to the house or chassis battery's?
I also keep my rig plugged in while parked in our garage. My battery's are the factory originals with the chassis units they are maintenance free and the house are wet cells( new in 06) I see 13,8 most of the time.
Did you replace your battery's with the maintenance free style or did you retain the wet cell battery's?
Regards, Jerry
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Not coach specific but not all inverters charge the chassis batteries as we had to add an Xantrex Echo Charger to keep the chassis batteries up. We found out when we ran the Onan Genset for 190 hours after hurricane Charley and the ibtteries did not stay charged but the electronics on the gen set had a draw on them.
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Hi Jerry,
I have the same set up as you. House batteries are wet 6v. The coach started well and everything else seems OK.
Joe
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Well Joe, I guess the systems all vary as well as the voltage, I am not sure what happens to battery life if we keep the rigs plugged in full time.
I really didn't plan on going back to school on the systems so if the battery's do go bad after 4-5 years I plan to replace them!
I am still interested in the maintenance free models ( I have grown very Lazy) but I don't know if they even make a 6 volt?
I plan to look around at the FMCA rally in Redmond. If you are heading that way I am sure they will have someone selling them if not I will see what I can find out and post in September
Regards, Jerry
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The dash voltage gauge and the silverleaf are reading the chassis battey (starting battery pair) and not the house batteries that are being charged by the inverter/charging circuit. These batteries will be held at about 13.8V at the output terminals of the bank. If you have an echo charger then the chassis battery pair will also be charged but the voltage level by design will be about 1/2 volt lower than the house batteries, maybe 13.2V. You can take an external meter and measure at the battery banks and see what is being charged and what the voltage levels are. If you do not have an echo charger then what you observed is perfectly normal. There is some discharging of the house batteries and it will take a little time for the alternator to supply enough charging current to get the batteries up to 13.8V. If you have an echo charger then you may want to check out the battery banks and see if the voltages are as expected.
Later Ed
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Joe -
You probably have the Xantrex Echo Charger mounted on the left wall of your battery compartment. It sounds like it might be toast. I have gone through a couple of them. I think part of the problem is the fumes in the compartment eventually compromise the components of the Echo Charger.
Personally I think Xantrex is about the worst supplier on my rig. Their inverter/ charger has failed 3 times and is spooky at present. It cannot be repaired, period. They will be happy to rip you off with a factory reconditioned one with almost no warranty for about the same price that you can buy a new one on Ebay. Never again! Aren't you glad you asked?
I found a good replacement for the Echo Charger at less than half the price. It is called the Ultra Trick-L-Start. It is a fully sealed unit so the gases in the bay have no effect on it. I am very pleased with it and the years of service it has provided. Compare this with the 2 year Xantrex garbage.
http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html
I would expect the battery to stay in the high 12 volt area, say 12.8 on the trickle charger. I am a little surprised at your voltage with the engine running though. I would expect to see a solid 14.2 on that. Perhaps there is a gaging error that is misleading you in all of this? I have no idea about Silver Leaf calibration.
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Joe,
If your Echo Charger is not charging, the most common reason is a blown fuse. Check the two inline fuses in the two wires to the Echo Charger. There is a fuse in the both the input and output wires. They are located about 6 to 10 inches from the Echo Charger.
The Echo Charger is designed to take house battery current when it is above 13 volts and charge the chassis batteries, so your chassis batteries will always stay charged when you are plugged in to shore power and charging your house batteries. Here is a link to the Echo Charger owners manual. http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/421/docserve.aspx
Gerald
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Thanks for the good information especially the Trik-L-Start. I replaced my echo charger 4 years ago. The green light on the echo is on indicating that the fuses are OK? I ran the coach yesterday and got voltage up to 13.8. Plugged in overnight and voltage is at 12.5. The coach starts well and charge builds up after running a short time. Any cause for further concern?
Thanks, Joe
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Joe-
I believe that the green light does indicate that all is well with the Echo Charge. My recollection is that when mine failed the light would not come on at all.
I think that the power for the light comes from the house battery. The Echo Charge then senses the chassis battery and if the voltage difference is greater than 10 volts it would shut down and the green light would flash. The fuses should not be hard to check but it would seem that both would have to be intact now that we know that the green light is on.
Assuming that your alternator is producing the 14.2 volts that it should, your voltage reading when it is running is .4 volts lower that the actual voltage produced. If that is the case, the 12.4 volts that you see when the engine has been off for some time is really 12.8 volts. The 12.8 volts would seem a normal reading to me.
If your leveling system was on for the 2 months you were parked, I can fairly assure you that your chassis batteries would have needed some help to start the engine if the Echo Charger were not working.
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Joe,
You best bet is to measure the voltage at the battery banks. Your house batteries should be at around 13.8V with the coach plugged in. From reading more info on this post I see that you have a Xantrex Echo Charger. That unit will allow about 5 amps of trickle charge to come from the house batteries to the chassis battery pair. They should keep the chassis batteries at about 13.2V. You can measure and see what voltage is being applied to the starting battery posts. If the voltage is below the expected high 13V range then certainly check the fuses in the Xantrex Echo Charger. If they are good then put a DC amp meter (usually most digital multimeters will have a 10 amp DC measurement capability) in series with the Xantrex positive supply lead going to the chassis battery bank and see if about 5 amps is being supplied. If it is then you are drawing current at the rating or in excess rating of the Echo Charger. That would indicate that something in the coach is on that exceeds a 5 amp draw in total and would slowly discharge the chassis batteries. It could also indicate that one of the chassis batteries is a problem and drawing more current in standby than it should to maintain charge. It would seem that something is not quite right here and needs some diagnostics. If you suspect the batteries there is a way to check those also. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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The green light on the Echo Charger indicates that the fuse from the house batteries to the Echo Charger is good, but the fuse from the Echo Charger to the chassis batteries could still be bad and causing a no charge condition. So like Ed stated, check you voltages to see what is going on.
Gerald
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The Echo Charger blinks green when there is a difference in charge between the house and chassis batteries. Steady green means all is well. http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/103/p/docs/pt/5/product.asp is where you can get a PDF manual.
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Thanks all. At your suggestion I have checked the chassis battery voltage and found that to be 13.18 on both. I would think that it should be higher. Would this indicate faulty trickle charge from echo charger? As stated earlier these batteries are sealed Interstate Workaholic batteries installed 6 months ago.
Thank all of you with your input.
Joe
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Sleep well Joe, the electrons are where they are supposed to be.......13.18V is just fine. There is circuitry in the Echo Charger that connects the battery banks, house to chassis, and limits the current that can pass to about 5 amps. The circuitry in the Echo Charger is not a perfect "switch" so you will drop about .5V in the transition through the Echo Charger. The fact that you are measuring 13.2V would mean all is well and that the house batteries are being supplied about 13.7V from the main charging/inverter system.
When you look at the guages up front, you are remotely reading what is happening at the other end of the wiring harness from the battery. Even the computer systems in these coaches are sensing voltage levels that are remote from the battery terminals in most cases. When there are questions, in order to be sure, check the health of the charging systems at the battery and you will know for sure the charge levels and the health of the charging systems.
Regards Ed
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Hello all. Well first let me say I know nothing when it comes to electrical. I have followed this disscusion with interest because our coach has a problem not keeping the chassis batteries charged. For the last two years I have had a number of RV shops look at it and no one can find anything wrong. I have resorted to keeping a Battery Tender hooked up all the time. I changed my inline fuses today and that didn't change anything. I am still getting a green blinking light on the Echo Charger. Could the Echo Charger be bad and still show the green flashing light? The Battery Tender does the job but it is a small pain to dig it out and set it up when it should be taken care of with the house charginging system. Last august at the Lima Rally I didn't hookup the tender and the coach wouldn't start after 4-5 days. Any ideas what I might try?
Thanks Chuck
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Chuck,
I believe the blinking light indicates that the house batteries are at a lower voltage state than the chassis starting batteries. When the light is green and blinking you are not charging the chassis batteries. This system can only work while the main inverter/charger is working. Might be possible with the solar panels charging but that is not a sure thing.
You need to check the Echo Charger wiring fuses, voltage levels of both the house and chassis batteries, and that the wiring of the echo charger is correct. In order for this system to work you should be seeing about 13.8V on the house batteries and about .5 to 1V less on the chassis batteries. The Echo charger info and wiring can be found here.
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/421/docserve.aspx
If you find that the wiring and fuses are correct (verify them with an ohm meter) and the house batteries are at about 13.8V and you are not getting around 13V on the chassis batteries with a solid green light on I would change the Echo Charger. If you are not familiar with an ohm meter and this is unclear as to what you should do then get some help. There are some safety concerns if you were to inadvertently short a battery bank. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Ed
I am pluged into shore power here at home with the charger on and the monitor is reading 13.8 volts for the house batteries. I replaced the inline fuses yesterday and i still have a blinking green light. The Echo Charger won't switch over and charge the chassis batteries thats why i have to use the Battery Tender. This has been a frustrating problem for awhile now since i can't find a rv repair shop that knows anything about the charging system and i am electrically challenged. I am thinking i might have to replace the Echo Charger.
Chuck
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Chuck,
The blinking light indicates that the unit is not charging, also confirmed by having to use a back up charger. If we assume that 13.8V on the monitor panel is the correct voltage at the house batteries (reasonable assumption) and that the starting batteries are in good condition(reasonable assumption given the portable charger charges them adequately) and that the wires from the Echo charger to the batteries have continuity and are wired correctly (cannot be sure without tracing them and checking them with a meter but not too likely to be defective given that you changed the fuses) then I would order up a new one. They are about $106 at this source.
http://www.campinggeardepot.com/store-products-82-0123-01-XANTREX-ECHO-CHARGE-12V--24V_1096414122.html
You will spend more money trying to have someone trouble shoot this than it would cost you to buy a new one and change it out yourself. If the new one gives you the same problem then we will look deeper. Worst case is that you will have a spare charger. I'm guessing that this will cure your problem....
Later Ed