BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Larry Dedrick on January 23, 2017, 05:03:00 PM
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To All
Plugged coach in to 50 amp service at an RV service facility. Coach would not accept power, Leg one reflected 105 volts leg two 103 volts. Voltage is too low, however Technician checked voltage at the 50 amp service plug and his amp meter showed 120 volts on both outlet legs. Fired up Gen. and power is good on both legs. The technician checked switching box with volt meter while on shore power, it also showed 105 and 103 volts.
Does it sound like problem with power cord or from power cord reel to Switching box.
Also was told that their shore power outlets are on more than one GFI, so they disconnected a ground on their wiring. strange.
With this information I believe it could be power cord and or reel related (wiring from reel to switching box?
Information and knowledge is appreciated.
Larry D
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Larry,
If your power cord rolls onto a reel instead of into a cord locker, the reel has brushes to conduct power from the reel to the hard wired cord that runs to the transfer switch. Those brushes are very prone to developing high resistance that leads to low voltage or an open circuit where you get no shore power.
Gerald
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Gerald
The power cord drops into a round container. I am hoping that it may just be loose or corroded connections. The service facility is working on it. Just want it diagnosed correctly. The facility is so close to us, this is the first time using them, so we will see what the outcome is.
Thanks for your input and more if you have anything.
Larry D
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Larry and Gerald,
If the coach won't connect then there should not be any real current flow (load) and without current flow there should not be any significant voltage drop. While I think that the brushes may be the issue they would have to be in terrible shape to cause this, meaning they would not have worked the last time you plugged the coach into a power post. I wonder if the lifted ground is causing the neutral to float or some measurement issue that is confusing things.
If the GFIs are causing such issues they should get rid of them instead of lifting the ground in my opinion.
Later Ed
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I'm thinking Larry doesn't have brushes to deal with, Ed, as he has what Gerald referred to, a cord locker, or what on my rig I'd moniker a cord bucket. There is no actual reel, but rather a mechanism that draws the cord in or out, and that's located above a drum/bucket the cord coils into.
Though I've never actually studied mine, I've the impression it's a direct cord-to-transfer/Surge Guard box connection - no reel brushes needed. If there's high resistance somewhere I reckon I'd examine that connection first.
Check also for cord or plug damage, but I'm not sure I'd expect that as causal for both hot wires to be affected unless it's quite radical damage.
Barring that, like Ed I'd be suspicious that the missing ground may be playing in here somehow. Though the Surge Guard is usually trouble-free and thankfully very protective of our coaches, Larry, there have been rare instances of problems. It sounds like yours is doing its job, however.
Joel
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Ed and Joel
Thanks for your insight. As far as the facility, they have indicated several times their problem with the shore power outlets. When we first plugged in my power cord, it would immediately trip the shore power receptacles CB and also an adjacent receptacle when we tried it, its CB also tripped. A technician said that they need to remove their ground in their box to alleviate the Breaker from tripping. This did prevent the Breaker from tripping anymore and did emphasize their disappointment with their power outlets. The voltage available was 120 on each leg of the receptacle.
I am also thinking something wrong with my cord or from cord reel (bucket) and Surge Guard/ Switching. I'll post what is found to be the problem.
Again; Thank You
Larry D Chandler, here we come
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Larry,
If they have to disconnect their ground in the box to keep the breakers from tripping, I would say they have major problems with their power system.
Your power cord does not have brushes it is hard wired to a terminal block on your storage can. Take a ohm meter and check you cord from the plug end to the power transfer box. I once had a neutral open and the transfer switch would not engage, a open neutral will allow 240 volts into the coach if the transfer switch closed which it should not do.
Did you have a trouble at any other site you connected up to?
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Larry,
IMHO you should find another service provider pronto! Removing gnd to keep breakers from tripping but not fixing the problem;... not the folks I'd want within 25 yards of my coach...
Steve
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Larry,
IMHO you should find another service provider pronto! Removing gnd to keep breakers from tripping but not fixing the problem;... not the folks I'd want within 25 yards of my coach...
Steve
I would say more like 1/4 mile. The ground circuit is there to cause the breakers to trip if there is a problem. With no ground leg you become the path to ground.
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Steve and Lee
What they explained to me is their system (circuit) has two GFI's connected in, so it causes issues with their breaker tripping. By disconnecting this ground it eliminates one of the GFI's from the circuit? . Now I'm not an expert on electrical, but I have heard in the past that you should not run multiple GFI.s on one circuit?
Believe me I am having reservations, so I went there to make certain something is done regarding the charging on the batteries. The tech did some trouble shooting and after his explanation, I was more at ease, but with a bit of trepidation. I took the coach in for some paint blemishes last Monday and they finally started yesterday, disappointing.
I was just thinking of a continuity ck on my cable, but I will leave that to them due to having an extended warranty. Had I known of a potential problem with my system, I would have tackled this myself, but we were not connected to shore power in storage.
We have in the past on occasion saw a momentary message on our alladin "open neutral " but it would disappear in about 2 seconds and all was fine. Also, I know I have a built in Surge protector, but I had an external Surge Guard Protector that I stopped using due to it giving me what I believed was a false indication, "open neutral" ( i believe). I eliminated it and just went directly to shore power without it and all was normal with the exception of the few times the alladin would indicate the open neutral on occasion. Now go easy on me, I was just using it for redundancy but I'm thinking now, maybe it was accurate in it's warning and protection.
Well, feel free to enlighten me on my faults on what I have commented, because I do want to learn more on electrical, besides knowing it can Kill Me.
Larry D and Thank You Lee, Steve and Gerrald
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Larry,
If they were willing to disconnect the ground from one of the GFI's, it wouldn't be a stretch to temporarily eliminate one or both of the GFI's from the circuit. Might help to determine the issue.
Good Luck!
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Larry,
Let's go back to basics. If you have a meter, check the shore power at the pedestal. Reference the diagram in the attachment to make the checks as you need to be sure you check each circuit separately using its 3 connection points. Each circuit should show ~120V when measured between ground or neutral.
I use the attached device to check the shore power pedestal before I plug in, even though I have a surge guard. It verifies the circuit is wired correctly. I built and sold them on eBay a few years ago. When you get to Chandler, contact me and I'll build one for you for parts cost.
Steve
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Steve
Thanks for the advice and offer.
The tech had checked the voltage at the source and it showed 120 volts on each leg, however my Aladdin showed 103/105 volts, and of course the transfer switch would not allow this power to pass through.
To update; the coach is now plugged into a third 50amp outlet, which the coach is accepting. The tech wants to replace the Surge Guard ATS as a precaution (extended warranty should cover this).
Also I want to ask two questions:
1. I have routinely used an external Surge Guard 34850 at the 50amp service pedestal, just because I had it and my thought was redundancy can't hurt. Your thoughts?
2. Is it normal to periodically see open neutral or open ground on the Aladdin and then that disappears after 2 seconds and power comes on and all voltage is normal with no further appearance of that message. Your thoughts?
Keep in mind with reference to my external Surge Guard 34850, it has a 120 second count down.
Thanks Steve.
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Mike:
Hope everything is good in Surprise. I would like to winter there sometime, but there is the "Laura factor", you know, a Florida girl, but I'm easy.
Anyway thanks for the advice. The facility has some outlet problems, but I'm wanting to be patient with them, especially since they are 5 minutes from us and see their ability to do quality work. We would have used them last year, but their new facility was not yet open. Time will tell.
See Ya in Chandler on the Security Line Up. You have any projects?
Larry D
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Larry,
Using an external surge guard should not be a problem, other than possibly doubling the wait time for power to the coach. IMHO it is unneeded redundancy. I've had our coach with the Aladdin for about 18 mos and I've never seen an open neutral indication. That said, I'm not sure if ours has that capability. What screen does it show up on? Mine does not show any menu to monitor AC in. Maybe someone with your year /model coach will respond.
Steve
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Steve:
Mine will show voltage and amps for leg 1 and 2. Immediately below these two lines of information is where any fault problem will be displayed and if all is well , it will state Shore Power Connected or Generator Power Connected and a few other messages as power is being checked before being put on-line. This is available when I select Coach Electrical on the Aladdin menu, which I usually leave displayed when parked and hooked to shore power or when we are driving with Gen on, I will occasionally monitor Coach Electric.
Thanks Again Larry D