BAC Forum
General Boards => Redecorating and Updating your Motorhome => Topic started by: Edward Buker on February 17, 2011, 06:43:32 PM
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This is a little off the beaten path regarding RV upgrades but it may be useful to some folks that like to fool with computers, routers, or maybe have some ham radio experience.... it is a useful upgrade to improve your typical WiFi connection in an RV park or beyond what is available in the park if needed.
There is a device called the Bullet M2HP by a company called Ubiquity. It is available in a 1 watt version at about $85. You also would need a $15 power supply and an antenna $20-$50. This device is a little electronic miracle. It houses a transmitter, receiver, microprocessor, firmware (software), and an Ethernet interface all housed in a 1 inch by 6 inch weatherproof housing. What it enables, is to mount an antenna and all of the radio communication circuitry outside of your RV and just feed a small Cat 5 Ethernet cable to the inside of your RV. The sailing community has embraced this device to latch onto WiFi in harbors. What I have heard of for installs in the RV community is a ladder install either temporary or permanent. I also heard of one install where a person fed the Ethernet cable up to the batwing antenna alongside the TV antenna coax and mounted the Bullet and antenna to the square tube of the batwing and could then rotate it for reception. For my case I experimented with an interior install.
http://www.wifi-stock.com/details/bulletm2.html
Antenna link for what I used....many 2.4 GHZ antenna choices from Lcom
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=21808
My first try was to mount the device inside a cabinet where my wireless router is housed but at 2.4GHZ the RF attenuation was too severe. That led me to route an Ethernet cable from the overhead cabinet to the dash area. I then mounted the Bullet on a mini tripod that I can quickly set up on the dash. Glass seems to have little to no RF attenuation. When not in use the portion of wire that resides in the dash area is coiled up and stored under the access panel for dashboard. There is a 90degree N connector between the Bullet and the small rectangular directional antenna. That would be omitted if you chose a standard vertical antenna. Where my Laptop sees 2 networks in my neighborhood from the RV, the Bullet on the dash sees nine. This device makes what is a marginal WiFi connection quite usable. I tie this device by Ethernet cable to my wireless router in the RV for convenience. The Ethernet cable can also go directly to your PC.
The initial set up of this device has the pitfalls of setting up any wireless network router device with some trial and error. Once you get by the initial set up complete and the values stored in the Bullet you would have a simple procedure to use it in the future that consists of scanning for wireless networks and selecting one.
How and where you mount one of these units is left to your own imagination but being up on the ladder or roof provides the best line of sight to the typical WiFi antenna network. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Is it a directional antenna (has to be aimed at the signal source)?
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go to www.radiolabs.com and look for WaveRV antennas. I have one on my sailboat and one on the Marquis. Both are USB plug and play omnidirectonal.
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The antenna I am using is is a housed directional panel antenna, that can be mounted for vertical (most likely) or horizontal polarization. It has 12dbi gain, a 60 degree beamwidth, and decent rejection from the backside. I can get a 270 degree "sweep" from the dash area using the windshield, front driver, and passenger side window views. You do not want too much gain and a reasonably wide beamwidth antenna. 60 degree is a good compromise, for just aiming in the general direction, without having to "pinpoint" an alignment.
In the Bullet Firmware, there is an align antenna panel, that shows a signal strength meter, that you can view on your Laptop, as you sweep with the tripod handle. There are also some LEDs on the bullet itself, that indicate signal strength. If I was thinking of mounting this unit more permanently outside, I would probably opt for a small vertical omnidirectional antenna, where a directional one makes more sense on the dash. They have 4db gain at about 8 inches long, and 6db at 12 inch long versions at Lcom.
As Jeremy noted above, radiolabs offers another solution via USB connect. It is omnidirectional and weatherproof. I'm not overly keen on having to use a USB wired interface, I would prefer to run everything through a wireless router and not be wire tethered in the RV. The white box in my cabinet photo is an Apple Airport Express wireless router, that my Ethernet cable, from the Bullet is tied to. That being said, the plug and play aspect of USB does keep it simple for the user, and has that advantage.
Later Ed
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22263
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go to www.radiolabs.com and look for WaveRV antennas. I have one on my sailboat and one on the Marquis. Both are USB plug and play omnidirectonal.
I had one of these, and did some grude testing. Much to my surprise, the performance increase wasn't noticable over my laptop's internal Wi-Fi system. I suspect this to be more due to the SW that is used with the Wave, than the Wave itself. I sold it within the week.
Gil
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The Ubiquity Bullet is about to be offered as an accessory for the WiFi Ranger router. I've been using a Ranger for the past several weeks full time, and despite a few growing pains, I'm convinced it is just want I want in the way of a router. I'm new to this group, but I assume people here are familiar with the WFR. I have it set up in my Beaver as the hub of a network that currently includes two laptops, a printer, a Blu-ray player, a DirecTV DVR and a web-enabled photo frame. Not having to change my internal network when I change CG's or go from WiFi to cellular is great. With the addition of a Bullet, it should be a killer system.
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Joel,
Which WiFi Ranger did you get and what were some of the issues you worked through?
Ed,
I like the find on the Ubiguity Bullet, but want to go with the external 8db omi. ant. any thoughts installation.
Hmm, I think I'm looking at projects I want to do faster than I move.
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I think a Bullet would be a great addition. I think you have to decide if this is something you want to install in a permanent fashion on the coach exterior, or if you want to make a holder and set it up when you need it. I can see both options as decent possibilities.
If permanent, I would consider a ladder mount. Most antennas come with Ubolt mounts. The issue I see, is that most of the antennas look to be non flexible fiberglass, for tower installations. I think it may be wise to have something spring loaded, as part of the mount. This mobile antenna version might be an option. There are also shorter versions of 2.4GHZ antennas that may be well shielded from harm, while attached to the rear ladder, with the antenna tip even with the top of the ladder.
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=27275
From a wiring viewpoint all you need is an Ethernet cable so you could bore a small hole and pass it through to the inside of the coach and then put Ethernet connectors on both ends.
The Bullet also drops into a 2 inch PVC pipe quite nicely. If you wanted to strap a length of 2 inch PVC to the ladder one could devise a quick mount where you climb the ladder and drop the Bullet, with an omni vertical antenna attached, into the pipe. A stop bolt, at the right point passing through the pipe, would set the level. Hope this helps.
later Ed
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Ed,
you will be happy to know that Radiolabs are working on a USB router that will enable the Wave RV wifi antenna to create a hot-spot of your own,
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That sounds like it would be a nice addition.
I like the little Apple Airport Express Router that I use. If I couple the Bullet and join a network, it becomes a hot spot for me, with my own network. If I just leave it on without the Bulllet interfaced, I can still join the network, just locally, and play music from iTunes, with my computer or iPod. I really like that wireless music feature of the Apple router. I have Bose speakers in the RV bay, and can listen to iPod music from outside of the RV, pause, skip etc. or from the inside system in the coach also. I have the Ipod where I can access it from the drivers seat and use this system with the interior Bose system as we travel down the highway. Nice to have 500+ songs with play-lists at your finger tips wirelessly.
One new option. I just upgraded to an iPhone. I have interfaced it into my car audio system, and can now listen to Pandora while on the road, using the cell network. My 2 gigabyte plan would allow for 27 hours of streaming a month. I could also use that option in the RV wirelessly, by streaming music in via the cell network, and out via wifi to the Airport Express. I have not tried that yet, but seems like it should work. So many options, so little time....
Later Ed
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I have my Bullet set up with the same antenna Ed has......but I didn't think of the 90 degree connector so mine has the bullet lined up straight behind the
antenna. I took a leftover piece of skirtboard from my slide seal replacement and wrapped it around the bullet and used a PVC conduit clamp to screw it to a 5" square plastic cabinet carousel(some people call them lazy susans). The carousel I then mounted to the ceiling of the first overhead cabinet behind the copilot chair, which put the line of the antenna nicely above the Girard Awning. It is slightly too long to rotate the assembly 360 degrees, but by unplugging the ethernet cable I can flip it from front and sideways facing to rear and sideways facing. I have also run a 120v outlet to that cabinet with the cable run in the space under the cabinet liner and above the wood cabinet bottom, so the whole installation is hidden.
In the setup of the Bullet software, there is a spot to enter a network name to be connected to, which I assume Ed is using when he connects to the Bullet and surveys to see the 9 networks he mentioned. If you set it up with "any" as the network name, it will pick up any network in range without human intervention. Combine this with the strength indicator lights on the side of the Bullet, and I just rotate it until the strength goes up to red. This makes the setup extremely easy to use, and is probably the key advantage to using a Bullet in this application.
I have mine running downstream to a Linksys Cisco rotor with a secured network. All of our wireless devices, 2 laptops,
tablet, Skype phone, wireless printer, etc all connect to the secured network. In a park where I hear continuous whining about
Wifi, because there aren't enough IP's,we are doing fine!
Oh, a couple of other points. I bought my Bullet from L-com where Ed and I both bought our antennas. It was a considerably lower price than the
link Ed provided. My whole installation, including the downstream router, cost about $70 which is less than half of the price of the WaveRV antenna Jeremy is using.
The main advantages of the bullet are the:
low installation cost
high strength signal reception
automatic signal pickup with signal strength metering, just by pointing the antenna
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I did go ahead and purchase the Ubiquity Bullet for my WiFi Ranger. I have the bullet and antenna sitting in the old TV cabinet behind my LED/LCD. I realize its not as good as mounting it externally, but I hated to put another hole in the roof. With the fiberglass shell of the coach it works pretty well since it is only ~2 feet lower than it would be if mounted on the roof. One nice thing about having it inside is that I can see the status LEDs easily.
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Jeremy has taken notes and would like to know where you bought the Ranger and the Bullet please.
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I bought both items directly from http://WiFi Ranger.com. I don't think they have authorized anyone else (3G Store) to sell the mobile version of the WFRBoost. If you are considering buying a Ranger, make sure you get one with the latest version of the firmware. They are doing a major update which is currently in Beta testing. I would expect the new version to be released within a week or two.
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Hi Joel,
thanks for the link. I already have a D-Link wifi router so all I need is the Ranger and the Bullet. I will probably buy this system and test it against my Wave RV before permanantly mounting one or the other on the roof. I am considering attaching it to the Wingard antenna so as to be able to rotate the Ranger from inside the coachand also benefit from the elevation. Can the Ranger be mounted remotely from the Bullet ?? Then I could mount the Ranger on the Wingard antenna and the bullet inside the coach.
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Not sure your pricing on the Ranger and the Bullet are correct. Here is the link to the Ranger antenna
https://www.wifiranger.com/wfrboost-fixed. At $249 it is spendy.
The Bullet https://www.wifiranger.com/productpage-wfrboostmobile even more at $299.
I think my Wave RV omni directional marine antenna is very competitively priced at $169 . It may not be as powerful as it is usb 5 volt driven but it is so much more user friendly......plug and play. When they come out with the router in a month or so for around $240 it will be the ultimate set up.
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Jim,
I am surprised that you are able to get much signal from inside the cabinet at 2.4GHZ. When I installed mine in that way first time around(wanting to hide the unit) I found that it had about the same performance as the laptop internal antenna. When I moved it to the windshield on the little photo tripod there was a vast improvement in signal strength. Good for you if you have been able to hide it and get excellent signal strength. The dash mount with the ethernet cable stored in the dashboard liftable panel takes less than a minute to set up. It gives you a good "sweep of the area" from either side of the dash. When I am done it is compact enough to stow in those small cabinets over the couch on the slide side. Pretty good compromise without going to a roof or ladder mount.
That Lcom antenna has a polorization to it. You will see a H or V on the back of it. You may find, depending on the campground antenna polarization (usually vertical) that one position or the other will have better signal strength. For the most part I just use vertical unless I cannot get a good signal and then I might try H.
The price of the Bullet varies by the power output and I got the higher power one which may explain some of the pricing difference.
I think one other advantage to the Bullet is that it is so compact and well designed to be weatherproof. If you later decide you want to mount it outdoors it will survive quite well.
Later Ed
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Not sure your pricing on the Ranger and the Bullet are correct. Here is the link to the Ranger antenna
https://www.wifiranger.com/wfrboost-fixed. At $249 it is spendy.
The Bullet https://www.wifiranger.com/productpage-wfrboostmobile even more at $299.
I think my Wave RV omni directional marine antenna is very competitively priced at $169 . It may not be as powerful as it is usb 5 volt driven but it is so much more user friendly......plug and play. When they come out with the router in a month or so for around $240 it will be the ultimate set up.
I believe the prices you are quoting include the Wifi Ranger and the Boost. The price of the WFR Boost Mobile, without a Ranger, is $179 as shown here: https://www.wifiranger.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=43
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I had the marine version of the WaveRV and was not impressed. In some non scientific testing I tested the Wave against a laptop and didn't see much difference. I sold it on eBay.
Just a FYI,
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Ed,
I just have a Bullet 2, the same model I use at my motel for our customer Wifi......$39 from L-com plus $9 for the POE. Works outdoors in all weather. But one of the great features is you don't need to put it outside. ;D
I just leave mine vertical since the pattern is better that way.
the dash mount sounds like a good alternative for your coach......on mine there is no dash liftable panel, and the front curtain does a clean sweep of the area it would be mounted, so the cabinet works well for me.
Also, I needed to run power for the POE, the downstream router, and my NAS, which all needed a home within ethernet cable range, so the dash just wasn't a viable answer. Also, we tend to wallypark a lot when travelling, and want to use wifi sometimes without being obvious. All in all, if I wanted more power I'd go to the 5HP, though as you mentioned above more power often = less signal.
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Not sure your pricing on the Ranger and the Bullet are correct. Here is the link to the Ranger antenna
https://www.wifiranger.com/wfrboost-fixed. At $249 it is spendy.
The Bullet https://www.wifiranger.com/productpage-wfrboostmobile even more at $299.
I think my Wave RV omni directional marine antenna is very competitively priced at $169 . It may not be as powerful as it is usb 5 volt driven but it is so much more user friendly......plug and play. When they come out with the router in a month or so for around $240 it will be the ultimate set up.
Jeremy, it strikes me that it's dealing with WifiRanger that is spendy.........and anyway, since you already have a D-Link to use as a downstream router, what added value does the WifiRanger bring?
Why not go to L-com.com get a bullet2, a POE adapter, and they have a special on a 4"x4"x4" 12dB directional antenna at $10 for a total cost of $58, shipping, and whatever you spend to mount it?
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Ed, Where did you procure, or what is the name of the white standoff mount for your Bullet, pictured in your first thread??? Henry Wall
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George,
I used a material called Starboard which is a plastic that can be easily worked with woodworking tools. Curves (sabre saw), rounded edges (router), straight cuts(table saw) holes (drill or hole saw). It is available from West Marine as well as other locations. The pieces are fastened together with screws. It is a strong UV stable material used in the marine industry. I keep a few pieces around and use it whenever I do a small outdoor project that I want to last. The material reminds me a little of Corion but it is not as heavy.
Later Ed
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Ed, THANKS for the info, it is one sharp looking setup!!! G. Henry Wall
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This is a great system and works well. SIMPLE, plug into your usb and boost your signal by 50-75%. I bought this for $39. I pick up my neighbors 300 yrds from my house.
Give it a try.
http://www.alfa.com.tw/in/front/bin/ptlist.phtml?Category=105397
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I'm thinking of some kind of WiFi upgrade (when I'll do it is another matter) and at least initially I may try an inside set up like Ed has shown, however I am wondering can an antennae be mounted outside (say on the ladder) and then can an antennae cable be run inside to the Bullet? Or does the Bullet need to be physically attached to the antennae? I think it would be good to see the strength meter on the bullet - or does that show up in its set-up window?
Jeff
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Jeff-
I'm using a Bullet as part of a WiFi Ranger system. You can read signal strength either off of the WiFi Ranger control panel or the Bullet's own control screen so you don't need to see the diode display. I believe it is important to keep the antenna as close to the Bullet as possible; I actually have mine in the MH in the old TV cabinet above the driver.
Joel
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Jeff,
The beauty of the Bullet is that it is made to be mounted outside, with a small vertical antenna on it. At 2.4GHZ, the antenna needs to be mounted on the Transmitter/Receiver, because the RF line losses are so great. That was the driving force for moving all the electronics into a Bullet type arrangement. If you do a ladder mount and use a vertical antenna, there is no need to see the signal strength LEDs on the unit, given the antenna is omnidirectional and tuning is not involved. The software on the computer will show the signal strength of each available router, when you select one. If I did a windshield arrangement like mine, I would use a directional antenna. If I was using the ladder mount, it would be a small vertical antenna with the Bullet mounted on it. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Thanks Ed and Joel.
I think I am understanding it a bit better. Am I understanding it correctly that the power of the POE should be related to the distance the ethernet cable has to run from it to the Bullet, i.e short may be ok with 12/15v but long may need 24v? I am contemplating two possible installs:
1) a system like Ed and Joel have i.e., small directional antennae mounted to the Bullet and then placed inside probably with an Airport Express. This may be the first route as I can play with it while learning.
2) a permanent system with an antennae mounted on the ladder with the ethernet cable going into the bedroom, probably with the POE and airport express mounted in the cabinet below the TV. If this was done, would the signal from the Airport reach the front of the motorhome? I guess doing this system would limit use to only using it when access to 110 (or inverter)?
I have found a supplier in Canada which carries the Bullet at a price of $76 which is similar to US pricing - I think the Bullet M2 HP is the one to use? POE of about $15-20. Also a supplier of an antennae - omni $25.
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Thanks Ed and Joel.
I think I am understanding it a bit better. Am I understanding it correctly that the power of the POE should be related to the distance the ethernet cable has to run from it to the Bullet, i.e short may be ok with 12/15v but long may need 24v? I am contemplating two possible installs:
1) a system like Ed and Joel have i.e., small directional antennae mounted to the Bullet and then placed inside probably with an Airport Express. This may be the first route as I can play with it while learning.
2) a permanent system with an antennae mounted on the ladder with the ethernet cable going into the bedroom, probably with the POE and airport express mounted in the cabinet below the TV. If this was done, would the signal from the Airport reach the front of the motorhome? I guess doing this system would limit use to only using it when access to 110 (or inverter)?
I have found a supplier in Canada which carries the Bullet at a price of $76 which is similar to US pricing - I think the Bullet M2 HP is the one to use? POE of about $15-20. Also a supplier of an antennae - omni $25.
Jeffrey, the choice of POE voltage is not governed by ethernet cable distance, but by the number of powered devices on the ethernet cable. So, if you put two bullets on the same cable but with aerials pointed in different directions, you would use the 24v adapter.
On pricing,, try L-com.com. I have had good results and paid $39 for my last M2. Their antenas are also well priced. They ship UPS so you'll end up with a brokerage fee ,usually about $20 for the shipment.
On in-rig range I have a Linksys WRT54G2 which has an internal antenna - at home the signal passes through several wood/gyproc walls successfully......mounted in the forward curbside sidewall overhead cabinet I can reach my printer on the counter under the bedroom TV, but my HP tablet has a hard time for anybody lying on the bed, especially if any of the interior doors are closed.
I'd recommend something with a removeable external antenna for your downstream router. If I was buying it would be a second bullet, as with that you could use wireless rather than wired for the Bullet to Bullet link, and probably avoid putting any holes in the rig envelope. I have a Bullet mounted inside my motel lobby that feeds internet wirelessly to an outdoor bullet which in turn feeds internet back inside to the motel rooms..... If you do go that way I'd make sure to secure the Bullet to bullet link so that you don't get hitchikers ( or open up the network when you're connectrd securely through the first Bullet.
I may just try that myself......
(edited to add thoughts on wireless secondary link)
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Jim,
Do you have the Bullet/antennae in your rig or is the Linksys the only unit? Do you have an external antennae (I suspect not as you mention that you don't want to put another hole in the coach envelope). So if I put a Bullet with a directional antennae (like Ed has) up front, then if I find I need more range, then I could also put another Bullet in the bedroom to link off of the front unit. We haven't really been using any wifi devices in the rear of the MH, so wifi access there wasn't my concern rather I was trying to find if the Bullet & Airport were in the rear, then would the signal reach the front?
I guess fishing ethernet cable from the POE to the Airport Express so it is mid-coach is possible. The Airport is powered so I would only need the 12 or 15v POE, correct?
Thanks
Jeff
(Not a computer/electronic geek)
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You have my attention on this, glad you posted it. I will be looking at these systems this week and likely will be installing this after we return from our trip next week.
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Jim,
Sorry, re-read an earlier post of yours where I see you have the BULLET2 in your MH.
I checked L.Com and the BULLET2 is $39US and the BULLET M2HP is $79US
At http://www.ubnt.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=84&category_id=37&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
the BULLET M2HP is $76CDN and the BULLET2 is $41.99CDN
However their prices for antennae are pretty dear.... so I'm looking at another source. This one states it ships from Ontario: I haven't checked what final price will be with shipping etc.
http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-270/Antenna-Marine-Waterproof-Stainless-dsh-Steel/Detail.bok#
not strait forward.
Also, I am not sure what antenna to get, i.e. dBi
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Jim,
Do you have the Bullet/antennae in your rig or is the Linksys the only unit? Do you have an external antennae (I suspect not as you mention that you don't want to put another hole in the coach envelope). So if I put a Bullet with a directional antennae (like Ed has) up front, then if I find I need more range, then I could also put another Bullet in the bedroom to link off of the front unit. We haven't really been using any wifi devices in the rear of the MH, so wifi access there wasn't my concern rather I was trying to find if the Bullet & Airport were in the rear, then would the signal reach the front?
I guess fishing ethernet cable from the POE to the Airport Express so it is mid-coach is possible. The Airport is powered so I would only need the 12 or 15v POE, correct?
Thanks
Jeff
(Not a computer/electronic geek)
Sorry I confused you, Jeffrey. We have a BulletM2 mounted in the first curbside overhead cabinet (counting from the front) on a plastic turntable (lazy susan??) mounted to the roof of the cabinet. It has an antenna very similar to the one Ed has in the pictures above. I have it configured to automatically link to any open wifi it sees. The lights are visible, so that I can turn it until I see a red light which is a good signal. The signal path is through the fibreglass wall just above the awning. I ran the power from the outlet on the underside of the cabinets (near the table) to a new 4 way 110v outlet in the first compartment. The power goes to the Bullet POE adapter, my Linksys router, and my Network Attached Storage, which are all located in that cabinet.
We have it wired via ethernet cable to the Linksys which gets its internet signal from the Bullet, and distributes the signal wirelessly to our secure network in the coach or out on the patio. (2 laptops, a tablet, a wifi cellphone running Skpe, and a wireless printer.)
The point of my post was that I find this gives me acceptable signal levels in the lounge, bathroom, and out on the patio, although the cabinetwork (or maybe the fridge and washer and drier) does slow the signal so that browsing from the bedroom is slower than acceptable. Not that bath or bedroom are usual browsing sites - I just wanted to test the range. OTOH, our wireless printer lives on the counter under the bedroom TV and works great!
My second point was that this system is designed to allow you to connect quickly and easily to different Wifi systems while allowing your private network to stay undisturbed. If I had to buy a second router to build the system I would get a second Bullet, because they are a very low cost option, and by having two the same you have some new options. One of these options is to put the upstream Bullet (upstream = closer to the internet) outside with an omnidirectional antenna, probably mounted to the ladder or to something on the roof. Then set it up to connect wirelessly to the inside Bullet and you will not need to run wires other than an ethernet cable from the POE adapter.
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Jim,
Sorry, re-read an earlier post of yours where I see you have the BULLET2 in your MH.
I checked L.Com and the BULLET2 is $39US and the BULLET M2HP is $79US
At http://www.ubnt.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=84&category_id=37&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
the BULLET M2HP is $76CDN and the BULLET2 is $41.99CDN
However their prices for antennae are pretty dear.... so I'm looking at another source. This one states it ships from Ontario: I haven't checked what final price will be with shipping etc.
http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-270/Antenna-Marine-Waterproof-Stainless-dsh-Steel/Detail.bok#
not strait forward.
Also, I am not sure what antenna to get, i.e. dBi
You do realize that the ubnt.ca guy is not affiliated with Ubiquiti and appears to be using the trademarks without authorization?
Try L-com.com for better prices on antennas.
I'm on my way out the door, will reply later.
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Jeff,
I think it is a lot of effort to do things twice. I would either do a dash mount, like I did, if it was convenient to get ethernet cables to that location and you also had a good location with power to mount the POE and router with 120V available for the other end of the ethernet cable. The other consideration is that you do not mind setting it up or taking it down for use which takes a couple of minutes.
If that was less convenient I would do a ladder mount and run the ethernet cable down the ladder using velcro straps and into the engine compartment using a marine cable fitting above the engine hatch. Then locate the best routing to get the cable into the closet. From there sort out where to mount the POE and router. I like the airport exress but a Linksys would work also. If you are mounting a router inside the envelope of your coach I do not think there would be an issue linking to it from anywhere in the coach from my experience. The only issue I see is that I would probably want a small spring loaded vertical antenna if doing the ladder mount in case a tree limb was to contact it. Lcom has one but it was a little more expensive. From a learning viewpoint you can play with either arrangement before any installation takes place.
Later Ed
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Jim,
Good to know about ubnt.ca
Thanks ......... chat later.
It is now attitude adjustment hour ;)
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Jeff, there are two types of antennas I'd look at if I were you. If you're going inside with the mount, go with a compact directional antenna and make the mount flexible, allowing you to point it. If you look at L-com's 'closeout' page, the first item is a 12dB directional for $10.00. That's the one I have.
If you plan on an outside mounting, go with a 10 to 12 dB omnidirectional antenna, which will be roughly 48"x 3/4" and cost $50 to $70 each. 8dB will be a little weak.
Make sure they're 2.4Ghz and have an N type connector.
I don't think you need to mount the downstream router mid-coach, unless wifi in the bedroom is a big deal for you.
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Jeff,
Jim has some good info on gain of 2.4GHZ omni antennas but I think you need to balance gain vs size here given that there are wind load issues driving and branch issues coming into campsites. The real issue with signal strength at 2.4ghz is getting a clean line of site view to the transmitting antenna. By getting a ladder mount antenna in place you have the best opportunity for that line of site view. I would go with a 3db vertical that is just 8.7 inches long if it was non flexible. I would mount it on the ladder and try and have it be protected by not having the tip elevated above the ladder. I would run it with a Bullet and get it to connect to a router and then check the signal strength. I would raise it to see if the aluminum ladder mount is causing much attenuation and if so find a good compromise height for mounting. These are stiff fiberglass antennas made for fixed locations so you need to take that into account.
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22263
This is taller, higher gain, and has a spring base which may be a good way to go. Ther are some rubber duck type antennas that are also flexible.
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=27275
You may want to discuss this application with Lcom and see what they recommend. I think any vertical antenna that has line of site view of a campground wifi antenna will do the job quite well. My first choice would be a short one that was flexible.
later Ed
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Actually, Ed, I would try your 2" PVC pipe mounting system......Set the top of the pipe at about the top of the ladder, and put a stop in the pipe (bolt or whatever) so that the antenna tip just clears the pipe. Then to use the system just lift it up and pop in a temp stop to keep it high. Of course with a short antenna you could have it above the roofline but below your a/c's .
If somebody tries this I'd love to hear what size antenna you find practical.
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Jim,
As I think about it this 6db antenna is 12 inches high and would be a good compromise. 1.5inch sched 40 PVC has a 1.5 ID and a 2.0 OD and this antenna has a 1.25 base width that would go inside the pipe nicely. http://www.l-com.com/multimedia/datasheets/DS_HGV-2406U.PDF . If you had a length of 1.5 inch ID PVC pipe that was coupled to the ladder with the top of the pipe even with the top of the ladder and the total pipe length was the length of the antenna plus the Bullet plus an inch or so. You would then be able to use a Quick release pin to move the assembly from fully enclosed (down position) to antenna exposed (up position) very easily with two holes drilled in the right place. (may be drilled offset from center to accomidate the cable exit from the Bullet) http://www.amazon.com/Jergens-Stainless-Kwik-Lok-T-Handle-Quick-Release/dp/B003H9LY88/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3 .
I would have a PVC end cap with a hole drilled in it the diameter of the antenna end cap plus a 1/16th and have it glued to the top of the PVC pipe. In the down position you would want the top of the antenna just exposed enough to grip it (probably the antenna end cap would be about right) and pull it up. The PVC end cap and antenna hole would hold the antenna from wind vibration and somewhat protect the assembly unit from the elements as well as branches in the down position. In the up position, if the PVC hole for the pin was drilled right, the base of the antenna where it widens could rest against the inside of the PVC end cap in the up position. This would help keep things more rigid.
The best way to deal with the small ethernet cable loop for raising and lowering the antenna would have to be worked out.
Attached are some photos of my satellite system cabling that I use Velcro straps and marine fittings to exit the coach and travel up the ladder. Cat 5 ethernet cable would be a breeze to run up ladder and no holes in the roof would be a plus. The blue center RG6U barrel connector is something I adapted to the marine deck fittings. They normally come with a rubber insert to hold wiring which would be what you would want. West Marine has them for several wire sizes.
This PVC assembly could be a winner painted in a coach color....
Later Ed
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Ed,
Your proposed install is interesting. I like the idea of the antenna protected from wind/branches until it is needed. would it make any sense to have a 1.25 (or 1.5 ground down a bit) washer at the bottom of the Bullet for it to rest on the quick release pin? or between the bullet/antenna? Do you think there would be too much movement/bouncing of the assembly, although as you mention the antenna has a 1.25 base so there is minimal sideways movement possible inside the pvc pipe (or am I missing something in your description other).
I don't think the Cat5 cable could go inside the ladder (that would be neat) so you'd just attach it to the outside, possibly in a plastic auto wire protector.
Would a small spring or bunge cord work to hold the extra cable inside the pvc?
Jeff
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Jeff,
I think the washer is probably not needed. The Bullet can rest on the pin quite nicely given the antenna and Bullet are not that heavy. The Bullet does not have that much lateral movement inside the PVC to begin with so I think this all would work quite well given the bottom of the Bullet would be maybe 8 or more inches down the from the top of the PVC pipe in the up position. The antenna opening in the PVC cap would fit tightly to the tapered base of the antenna. If I had any issue with tolerance or movement I would run a length of foam stick on weatherstrip up the inside of the pipe to take up some tolerance against the Bullet but that is probably not needed.
The Cat 5 cable would be held nicely with velcro straps, I have silver ones that I got at one of the Big Box stores. The Cat5 cable is available covered in a gray sheath and I would see no reason to cover it with something bulky and more obvious but would buy a UV exterior rated cable.
Not sure of the best way to handle the up down Cat5 cable loop but just leaving it moderately tight in the up position and a small loop in the down position would probably not hurt anything. Hope this helps. I may have to get in the shop and do some tinkering myself this winter....
Later Ed
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Ed,
Looking on L.Com site I found the following:
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=34206
This comes in different lengths. May work well, or the grommets may be a nuisance. If I drilled a hole in the coach up high (say just below/near the marker light) to run this cable into the bedroom, do you have any idea what might be in that area and is possible to get into the coach? Or do you think it is easier to go down the ladder, into the engine area and then into the bedroom. Some kind of cable insulation would be needed if running through the engine bay, correct?
Jeff
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Jeff,
That cable looks like a good approach. I am not sure what is up in that area of the coach from a drilling viewpoint so you would need to be careful starting with a small drill and then poking through the hole with a straight piece of copper wire. If it seems clear there then you could use the appropriate drill/hole saw.
I usually opt for what is foolproof even if it is a bit more effort when it comes to these type projects. I like the ladder approach because I could drill in a place where I could see the back side of the panel above the hatch at the base of my ladder. That makes it a safe spot to drill. There is wiring that runs across from one side to the other, already in place, so I just tie wrapped my cables to that bundle. I do not cover any of these wires with plastic sleeve in this location unless I am concerned about rubbing on something. If there was power involved I would but these are just signal cables. If you were concerned the split plastic sleeve is inexpensive. I brought my cabling in through the bottom of the closeet on the passenger side for my satellite system install but whatever works best in your coach based on the layout.
Someone may be able to comment if that area is pretty safe to drill through. There should not be too much up there close to the outer rear cap.
Later Ed
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Looking at it again, I think I'd run the cable down the ladder to either around the top of the engine access or below it. Just above the hinged area it is pretty clean and free of obstructions and would permit a fairly short run into the closet. I am not real keen on random drilling through the outer shell as one never knows where things have been placed inside the walls.
I was in town today and stopped in at the computer shop. They carry Ubiquiti equipment (although the person I needed to talk with wasn't there so I ddn't get any pricing). The one person I did speak with wasn't too sure about the Bullet doing what I want, but I said that others are using it and that LAND AND SEA is marketing the WaveWiFi Rogue
http://www.landandseawifi.com/collections/frontpage/products/wavewifi-rogue
so it should work.
They also carry weather rated cable. I will do some price checking with them before I order - if in stock then about a week. Undoubtedly they will want a few more $ but if not too much then I'll support the local.
Jeff
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Jeff,
I think coming in above the hatch is probably best. If you have a hinged ladder, coming in below the hinge will not work well, and raising the hatch could be a problem. You can see much better what your coach design is and plan accordingly, so I'm sure you will sort it out.
This is a link to those marine cable deck fittings. You do have to put these on the cable before the ends are on which means at least one end has to be routed through without the end fitting on it. I bought a tool and some Cat 5 end fittings that are easy to crimp on. Just takes a little time to get the color code right.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=442338&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50157&subdeptNum=50187&classNum=50192
Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Jim,
FYI,
on the Ubiquiti networks website, under marketers and re-sellers the operation in Ontario is listed (bottom of page).
http://ubnt.com/purchase
Have to check on a couple of things, but am thinking of the small directional antenna as well (for $10 why not) and then see what I end up installing. Do you have any pics of your install in the cabinet?
The downside to having the Airport Express in the bedroom is it would be difficult to hook the audio up to the main system. I guess this is where a repeater Bullet like Jim mentioned may work - more set up though. Would be nice to have hooked up as my PT only has the dash radio (why I don't know) and with only two speakers, it is not the best for listening. The Sony 5.1 is good but not connected to the radio - something else to look into :)
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I guess living in the frozen north (although not frozen these days) is reason for companies to tack on extra-ordinary charges. For example if I order the Bullet, POE and the 2 antennas from L.com the cost of shipping is $64.33 on a $140 worth of products...... ;D
Maybe I'll wait until I get to the US and have it sent to where I am staying.
However I can get the Bullet and a POE for essentially the same price from a local supplier, however antennas are much more $. Don't know why. So, I thought order the antennas from L.Com - essentially the same shipping and handling, i.e. on $56 worth of product I'd pay $64 S/H.
So looked at a seller in Manitoba:
http://xtremedevices.com/antennas.html
note the prices of antennas - the first looks to be the same as the $10 unit at L.com. There is an antenna:
http://xtremedevices.com/PAWOD24-9.html
which might work, but it is 24" - pretty tall.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.