Switching to ELC

[Dick Simonis]

Last month I had a complete fluids change in Coburg which included switching to the ELC coolant, removing the water filter and all the associated lines and fittings (they had a heck of a time with that one).  However, in retrospect, I failed to double check with the tech if the dash heater was also flushed and etc.

On the off chance the tech failed to flush the heater core, what sort of downside might I be looking at???  Am I obsessing over a minor detail??

Oh, they used the Cummins ELC not Cat but I figure that won't matter....right??

Thanks.

Dick

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

In all of our cases of conversion there are points that do not drain and most shops do not flush the system enough times to dilute all of the old antifreeze out so we all have some level of concentration of old antifreeze in our systems and the manufacturers know that this will be inevitable so the materials have to be compatible to a great extent. If you have some doubts, have a sample pulled and get them to send it out for analysis. They should be able to tell you if it is as it should be. As far as Cat vs Cummins ELC you could check the Cummins ELC label to see if it lists the Cat Spec. It should be fine would be a guess. I would stick with Cummins ELC, now that you have it in the coach, when adding some additional as a good practice.

Later Ed

[Keith Oliver]

ED

What would be the indications that your coolant was not doing an adequate job, so would need to be changed out to the much more expensive ELC?

When I recently had to do some work on one of my boat engines, I went to the local (Saltspring Island) auto parts store for new coolant and they didn't even carry ELC, as they have no demand for it.  They did carry a good quality coolant with the right Diesel engine specs for my application.  When I drained the old coolant, it looked the same as it had when I put it in, in 2000, 1600 hrs ago.  When I checked the coolant after running the engine, at which point it should have been a 50% mix of old and new, It still looked exactly the same.  The engine runs at exactly the same temp, there are no signs of internal corrosion, The cooling system was not part of the reason for the work that needed to be done.

[Edward Buker]

Either system of coolant ELC or the traditional coolant will do the same job. ELC is more convenient and longer lasting in that the additive package is stable for a longer time so you do not have to deal with SCA checks and changing it as often. I always used the traditional coolant in my boat engines and they were over 20 years old. I would not change a boat over to ELC, no reason to.

later Ed

[Keith Oliver]

Ed

So how is the diesel in a boat different from a diesel in a Motorhome?  
Assuming that both are kept in temperate conditions winter and summer, the only difference I can see is in the usage pattern, but that is only a slight difference.  The coolant isn't necessarily used as an "antifreeze" in either, as we take our Beaver south in the winter and leave our boat with heat on in the engine room in teh winter, we bring our Beaver home to BC in the summer and use the boat in warm water (where we are at present) in the summer.  
Both run typically for 3 to 5 hours at a time if we are travelling somewhere, and always get run up to "open thermostat" temperatures when used.
I guess I don't see where the extra cost of flushing out and replacing the coolant without knowing there was something amiss, let alone using ELC, could ever be justified.  Especially if, as you say, you wouldn't do it for a boat.

[Joel Weiss]

Since the use of ELC eliminates the need to add or monitor SCA levels and it lasts at least 6 years (with the addition of an extender at 3 years) my perspective is that the changeover was worth doing.  The technology used in ELC is the same as used in many new car coolants.  The following is a list of benefits for ELC (as provided by CAT):

Extended life through inhibitors that deplete slowly
· No more SCA’s
· High temperature aluminum corrosion protection
· Improved heat transfer
· Less tendency to form deposits
· Improved water pump life
· Reduced maintenance costs

Here's the CAT article on ELC's:  http://www.cat.com/cda/files/87058/7/elcfaq.pdf

The changeover to ELC when a coolant replacement is needed anyway really isn't all that difficult.  My perspective is that if a new technology offers advantages and the costs aren't all that different why not use it?

[Edward Buker]

The diesel in a boat is not different than a diesel in a motorhome other than it will put out more HP given it can be cooled more effectively with a liquid to liquid heat exchanger and many times you run the RPM closer to the max limit as a rule. As Joel points out there are some advantages to the new ELC given the additive package is more stable. Both have an anti-cavitation component to eliminate metal erosion and anti corrosion additives. As I said both ELC and non ELC antifreeze are fine in diesels as long as they are rated for diesels and meet Cat spec or Cummin spec if that was the brand of engine involved. The only issue I would have and why I indicated that I probably would not change over if I had been happy with non ELC, is that depending on the materials used like the gasket material, the pump seals, gasket adhesives, hose materials, Orings there may be some incompatibility with the new ELC chemistry. I would want to be sure that the compatibility testing was done on everything used within the motor that would be in contact with ELC before I would venture there. If the engine configuration was not that old and the manufacturer indicates everything is compatible then I might take the plunge....an old Ford Lemhan or an old Perkins, or an old Cummins probably not....

Later Ed  

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

One issue with ELC is that if you break down on the road and need antifreeze; e.g. heater element or hose springs a leak, ELC is not always available at the local auto parts store. On the other hand, SCA pre-charged coolant is. This just happened to me and I'm glad I chose pre-charged over ELC. One other "advantage" is that I can add normal antifreeze in a pinch w/o harming the SCA coolant, justt am diluting it a bit.
Steve

[Ron Langdon]

Steve makes a good point. What's the course of action if you have the SLC and a hose blows? Can you mix the two without major negative results?

[Dick Simonis]

To me the change to ELC was appealing since it was time to change coolant anyway and I was able to have the water filter and hoses removed.  My understanding is that there is a significant potential liability to the filter arrangement since one of the hoses was subject to heat related failure.  The longevity of the ELC and not having to monitor SLC was also a big plus.  Protecting that big high dollar radiator seemed like a worthwhile investment of a couple of hundred $$$.

I can't imagine that ELC is that tough to find....perhaps not at Napa but than haven't looked.  Would't most any truck service center have it??  Regardless, I picked up a couple of extra gallons of concentrate for just in case, that would make 4 gallons of replacement fluid..

[Joel Weiss]

ELC can be mixed with regular coolant in an emergency and all that happens is that its long-life properties are eroded.  However, ELC-type coolants for CAT, Cummins and other diesels are quite common these days and can be obtained at any truck center. They've been on the market for more than a decade. Compared to locating filters and other such parts this seems pretty easy.