Author Topic: Cat Engine Died  (Read 1989 times)

Gilbert Styles

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Cat Engine Died
« on: August 01, 2021, 05:37:54 PM »
This is my first post and I hope it's OK that I put it into this topic. My Engine died - no fuel showing in clear Water Fuel separator. I have a 2002 Patriot Ticonderoga with a cat 3126 engine I bought in Nov 2020 and I'm new to Diesels but trying to learn. I have driven it about 1500 miles so far and had it serviced at Massey Diesel in Phoenix when I bought it. All was in great shape and no mechanical problems till now. I normally drive at 60 - 65 max. This day I was running very late and after driving all day -prox 400 miles at 70+ MPH my engine died while parking it in the campground and it would not restart. I checked the fuel water separator and no fuel was showing in the clear tube and there was some fuel dripping from the bottom and the bay floor was a little wet with fuel too, but I could not tell where it was coming from. I pushed the electronic air purge and it did put fuel in the tube and it did start and run so I could park it. I"m there now. I de-greased the engine bay so that when I do start it I should be able to see if there are any leaks. At this point the clear filter is about 1/2 full of fuel. Is it supposed to be completely full? My manual says I'm supposed to remove a plug when purging but I'm not sure if that applies to my separator or exactly which plug to remove. Should I do another air purge and this time remove a plug to allow the air to escape? The separator assembly  is a Winn Parker- Pic attached.  Any idea what caused this and what I should do about it?
Thanks in advance for any help
Beaver Patriot Ticonderoga 2002 - 37 Ft - Cat 330

Dave Atherton

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 07:10:42 PM »
Hi, what I’m seeing in fuel in site glass on primary fuel filter is 1/2 full, what this is telling me the
O-rings on top and bottom of site glass need replacement. To verify this start engine and note: two
things the level of fuel in plastic site glass at idle and air bubbles in site glass. Next have someone
speed engine up very high idle and again note: level in site glass along with air bubbles in site glass.
 
What I expect you will see is a decrease in fuel level in site glass along with air bubbles at engine idle,
Next at high idle fuel in site glass will be very low in site glass along lots of air bubbles. This test is without any load put on engine such as climbing hill etc. that will require more fuel needed to run
engine along with information, yes engine will still operate but at power loss. Last this test fuel is
under suction from fuel tank up front to inlet side of fuel transfer pump than on discharge side of
fuel transfer the fuel pressure reading 58 psi at idle and 75 psi at high idle. This is where your power
loss comes into play because on entry on air at primary fuel filter, and in most cases location of
problem is the o-ring seal top and bottom of plastic site glass along side of primary fuel filter. Last
Your secondary fuel filter it is recommended for your 3126 engine a 1R-0751 2 micron caterpillar only
Fuel filter. Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechanic
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Gilbert Styles

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 08:09:43 PM »
Thank you so much for your help. B4 I read your text I started the engine and did the air purge, removed the cap on the valve and pushed the valve. I sprayed a lot of fuel around and after the purge I shut down the engine and the level came up to the top of the mesh filter. Then I started the engine and the level varied and did see bubbles but I'm alone and didn't have anyone to rev the engine. Then shut it down and the level came back to the same place it was. I did this 3 times and got the same results so it still looks like the level in the picture.

The day when the engine died. I had turned a very sharp corner and started up hill. It was pitch black out and 11 PM so I couldn't see much but when I looked at the filter at that time I think there was no fuel showing at all. Then when  I pushed the purge button it did put fuel into the glass filter but I do not remember if it was full - I don't think so though. The engine started and I drove to my site. A little while ago I heard from a  friend that has an older Cummings motor home and he said that maybe the sharp turn and uphill slant caused the fuel to slosh and sucked air into the fuel pickup and perhaps that is what caused it to die at the time. Do you think that is likely? He also said that the older motor homes often had problems with fuel hoses deteriorating from the Modern diesel low sulfur fuel and causing leaks and air in the fuel and the hoses will eventually need to all be replaced! 

Up to now it seemed to  have plenty of power with no hesitation or roughness even under load or at high speed. I am a full timer going on 12 years but with Ford gas motor homes up til now. I am in Kansas City now but am in Phoenix in  the winter and that is where Massey Diesel serviced it for me after I bought it. I can look for a Cat service place here to get the o-rings replaced but I would rather have Tony at Massey in Phoenix do it if I can.  Do you think it is OK to just keep driving it for now?   

Thank you again for your help.
Beaver Patriot Ticonderoga 2002 - 37 Ft - Cat 330

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 09:38:15 PM »
Gilbert,
I split your posts to a separate topic "CAT Engine Died". The Forum Assistance board has complete instructions on how to initiate a new topic post.
Not wanting to steal Dave's thunder, but I also suspect the o rings. The problem is going to get worse with time and you've got some significant hills to climb to get back to Phoenix, regardless of the route you choose. IMHO get them replaced now.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Gilbert Styles

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 10:12:57 PM »
Thank you  for fixing my post and for your advice. I'll look for a place here to get it fixed. If anyone has a recommendation I'd appreciate it. I'm in Kansas City, MO.
Thanks
 
Beaver Patriot Ticonderoga 2002 - 37 Ft - Cat 330

David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2021, 10:24:41 PM »
From RVServiceReviews.com.  I have no experience with either firm.  We live in Oregon and Arizona.  There is also a service reviews section here on the BAC website.  You might also try searching the RV Service Reviews website for cities close by Kansas City, MO... like Kansas City, Kansas for example.


http://www.rvservicereviews.com/StateList.asp?Submit=&sortby=location&state=MO&search=&CategoryID=&ZipCode=&Miles=&SearchState=&KeywordState=


Cummins Central Power (Coach Care)   Kansas City, MO   Class A - Diesel, Class A - Gasoline  Excellent (6 reviews)

Foley Equipment CAT   Kansas City, MO   Class A - Diesel   Very Good (1 review)
2004 Beaver Marquis Sapphire

I had a dream... then I lived it!
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2021, 11:44:06 PM »
I’m having a little trouble here understanding why Gilbert would need new O rings so soon after Massey’s service.  My comment here should be taken with reflection on my relative fuel system ignorance, but might he check that the sight glass mounting mechanism be examined for looseness?  Whether spin-on or bolt (looks like spin-on), if Massey used new O rings at service perhaps they failed to snug things up, as some techs in a hurry have been known to do, and it’s simply worked loose in the interim.

Joel
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Lee Welbanks

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2021, 01:04:09 AM »
Take that fuel?water separator apart and have a good look at the Orings, probably not seated correctly or maybe a damaged Oring. How much fuel do you have in your fuel tank? Is there any sign of a fuel leak in the line from your tank to that first filter, could be sucking air from a bad fitting or cracked fuel line.

Fred Brooks

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2021, 01:16:03 AM »
   Gilbert,
There are a total of 4 o-rings that should be replaced when the Racor canaster is removed to be cleaned. If you will do a search in the upper right corner of the page, type in "cat c-12 cranks great but won't start" it will display all the responses to that topic. scroll down to the one dated 1-26-18 by Gerald Ferris and click on it. It will list the part #s for the O-rings. I would also recommend changing the feed tube as it is old and brittle. (mine was cracked and leaking). If you have diesel fuel in your compartments between the tank and the Racor, the supply hose may be leaking and you are sucking air under a load. Hope this helps, Fred
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Cat Engine Died
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2021, 01:21:35 AM »
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6