Author Topic: Black Tank Odor?  (Read 7029 times)

Michael Kauffman

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Black Tank Odor?
« on: August 30, 2011, 08:15:45 PM »
[size=14][face=Arial]Hello everyone, on our last outing a couple of weeks ago we started smelling a slight black tank odor in the toilet room.  It was only present when we left the fan going on low for a period of time.  I've come to the conclusion that the seal (wax ring or rubber?) failed and lets odors past when the fans on.  Has anyone taken out their toilet?  Are they wax seals?  Do you think I'm on the right path here before I tear into it?  

Thanks Everybody!! Mike[/face][/size]

Joel Ashley

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 10:26:10 PM »
I'm not sure what configuration of toilet you have on your model coach, but on ours, the first place I'd check is the black tank vent, which may have some sort of blockage on the roof or at the tank;  and the second place I'd look is the bowl/ball valve seal, esp. if it no longer holds water.  Some fan units are reversible, so make sure that's not inadvertantly the problem, esp. if the roof tank vent is nearby.

Our Sealand china unit doesn't use wax seals, but is just bolted to a flange screwed to the floor.  In some installations, glazing compound is used around the flange to keep water away, but usually only in rigs where a shower is inclusive or nearby.  That doesn't apply to us.

-Joel
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 11:07:26 PM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Gerald Farris

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 11:24:35 PM »
 Mike,
There is no wax seal on your RV toilet. There is a rubber seal at the floor that the riser sets on and a rubber seal at the bottom of the bowl that seals between the bowl and the flush ball. If your toilet holds water in the bowl between flushes the bowl seal is not leaking and the floor flange seal rarely leaks.

Your toilet is probably a Sealand Traveler Series and most of those have a vent hole that runs through the bowl to just below the rim. If that is what you have the best solution for your odor is to install a vent cap on the top of the black tank vent that will draft better so that there will be a draft drawing the fumes out the top of the vent instead of letting them backup into the coach. Another thing to remember is that you should never run you roof vent fans unless you have open windows.

Gerald  

Joel Ashley

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 11:47:41 PM »
Good call, Gerald.  I in"stinct"ively have open windows if the fans can be used, and made that assumption;  closed ones would be a very likely cause of his problem.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Michael Kauffman

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 05:57:19 AM »
[size=14][face=Arial] ::)  Hummm, I think you guy's are right.  The fan was on low WITHOUT a cracked window, doh!!  I think I'll pull the toilet anyway for piece of mind.  I've worked in the plumbing industry for 30 years too.  Thanks for pointing out the obvious for me, Mike

P.S. Gerald, last year I added one of those weather vane type of vent caps that spins into the wind for extra draw.[/face][/size]

Keith Moffett

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 10:42:34 AM »
We have just ruturned from a two week run in  warm weather.  With a window open and the bath fan on blowing out it draws that smell.  We add water to the washer dryer P trap on ocasion but I just noticed that the recirculating vent on the washer has no cap.  It's just an open pipe with threaded fitting.  This allows a breeze to be felt coming from this pipe.  Any comments?  Could this have a bearing on Mikes problem?
Keith
2007 Patriot Thunder
45' C-13
2006 Explorer Ltd.
DW is Carol
Safe travels and
May God bless!

Gerald Farris

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 01:50:55 PM »
Keith,
The dryer exhaust vent (if that is what you are referring to by recalculating vent on the washer) should not have a cap. Years ago some RVs had screw on caps on the dryer vent and it proved to be unnecessary and  very problematic because owners so often forgot to remove it when trying to use the dryer.

If the washer/dryer is used on a regular interval, you will get no odor from it. I have been a fulltimer for 8 years and I have never had a problem with an odor from the washer/dryer, however it is used often. Mike's odor problem was almost certainly caused by the fact that he was running the fan with no open windows and the vacuum that was being created was drawing the black tank odor through the toilet bowl vent passage.

Gerald

Keith Oliver

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 04:52:50 PM »
Mike:
Sounds like I have the same problem.  My diagnosis is different.
My black tank vent protrudes from the roof about 2' from the hallway vent opening and about 4' from the head vent opening.  I notice the smell whenever the head fan comes on.  Whether there is an open window or not, some air comes down through the hallway vent, drawing smelly air with it, from the black vent. The smell then pervades the whole front half of the coach.
I am considering extending the top of the black vent to the rear of the coach.  I have already bought a 20' length of white 1.25" PVC to attach to the vent pipe, just haven't got around to grinding the connection so it will fit.  
I checked at a couple of RV stores for a vent line odor filter, but they had never heard of them.  Marine applications use them, but I haven't been into a marine store to check on the possibility of that solution.
I will post when I have done the work, and have some results.  Out on my boat for another few weeks so won't get to it just yet.

Keith Moffett

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 10:34:30 AM »
Hi All
Sounds like this is a fairly common problem.  I don't mean to take over Mikes thread.  
So Gerald, that second stand pipe behind the Washer / dryer combo unit, is a dryer vent?  We get the smell, even with the bedroom windows open 1/3 each and the bath fan on low blowing out.  Only thing to make it better, is to fill the trap on the washer stand pipe side, but that just minimizes the problem.  We don't use the washer enough, that's true, but should the dryer vent be allowing air flow out, when just the fan is on?  I can feel the flow. I wonder if the washer has an issue, it tends to get out of balance easily.  I must be over looking something here, but that smell gets to headache level too often.
Keith
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 05:15:49 AM by 14 »
2007 Patriot Thunder
45' C-13
2006 Explorer Ltd.
DW is Carol
Safe travels and
May God bless!

Joel Ashley

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Re: Black Tank Odor?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 09:06:30 PM »
Keith, are there other P traps in the coach that don't get used?  

Many coaches have special vent valves on the tank side of traps, because if you dump your tanks (as opposed to leaving them open while camped) to more completely evacuate them, the sudden draw-down creates vacuum in the piping to connected plumbing units.  That vacuum will easily suck the traps dry without such trap vents in place.  A more recent invention gets rid of P traps, period, by using an in-line valve that prevents odor from moving back through drain piping;  manufacturers are starting to use those in coaches, and they likely will become the standard.  By eliminating both the P trap and associated vent valve, mfrs. have more leeway when routing drain piping for sinks, showers, and washers.  Here's a link to one retailer's description of the HepvO trap: http://www.a-s-m.com/hepvowastevalve.html

We had trouble in our coach with occasional smells out of the shower drain.  I finally figured out it was usually after a tank dump, and a couple cups of water in the drain stops the odor.  That's the only drain in the coach that I can't find a vent attached to, because the vent is supposed to stand on a short pipe above the trap, and there is no clearance for that under the shower floor.  One of these days I may get ambitious enough to install a HepvO trap on that drain;  though it might be difficult or impossible to replace the P with a HepvO under the shower, there is pipe access where it runs through the tank bay, and such a valve doesn't need to be near the trap to work.

Just some thoughts for you to consider, Keith.  If your coach has trap vents (maybe Gerald or someone knows about what year they began installing them), they are usually a short standpipe with a top fitting that has a slot in it, just downstream of a trap.  Perhaps one of them has failed (washer/dryer?) or the slot is plugged or blocked.  If so, each time you dump, that trap is being vacuumed dry, because the dump port is much larger than the size of the tank's vent pipe going to the roof.

The "recirculating" vent on your washer...  I assume yours doesn't vent moist dryer air to the outside?  If you don't regularly use the machine, perhaps it needs a couple of cycles with vinegar, baking soda, or whatever Splendide or the manufacture's instructions recommend to purge it of any odor cause.  It is not unknown for mold to develop around seals, even in our home machines.  You might consider converting to an external dryer vent configuration if feasible;  they are faster and more efficient.

-Joel
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 09:30:54 PM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat