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No power for brake lights at coach 7 pin connector
Steve Huber:
Richard,
Did some digging into the various docs that show the brake wiring circuit. Unfortunately we don't have a specific 07 Contessa set of diagrams. However the 08 Contessa should be wired the same way. We do also have the 07 Patriot diagrams which may help but the Patriot is a more complex coach so differences exist. That said...
The 07 Contessa brake lights are in the same bulb as the turn signals but have a separate filament so if you have the turn signal on and step on the brake, the turn signal should continue flashing while the brake light illuminates. Check that your coach does this. The wire that feeds the brake lights is labeled VGC4. Hopefully you can read it on the wiring in your coach. It is pin #5 in the tail light connector that plugs into the tail light assembly.
The diagrams also show the turn/brake light signal to the tow connector goes directly to the connector from the turn light switch with no fuses or relays in the path.
The 07 Patriot diagrams show the brake signal runs to the tow connector on a Blue wire in the 5 oclock position. Not sure if this is applicable to the Contessa.
I think your problem is due to a bad connection, not a fuse or relay. That said, if it were me, I would ID the pin(s) on the Toad that supply the Toad's braking system. That will then tell you what pin(s) on the coach tow connector supply the brake signal. Then trace the wire connected to that pin. It will either be broken or have a bad connection at it's junction(s) with another wire.
Scott Shearer:
Richard,
As you described in reply #3. The coach has four stacked rear lights. Top is amber/yellow colored turn signal. Middle two are red brake lights and bottom is clear back up. The Contessa taillights are a European style, amber turn and separate red brake lights, same as the 2006 and newer Patriot and Marquis (better known as the Hamsar Stacked Taillights).
Starting in 2006, Monaco coaches are pre-wired to accept the US Gear Unified plug and play brake controller. Unless modified, Monaco coaches energize the brake lights when the engine/exhaust brake is engaged. This created an issue because most brake controllers are activated via a brake light ON signal and would apply the trailer brakes when the engine/exhaust brake was activated.
On the Patriot and Marquis coaches, Monaco created a separate circuit with fuses and relays dedicated to the trailer tow connector, bypassing the engine brake issue. This circuitry also ‘converted’ the 3-wire style (separate turn/brake lights) to the two-wire style (shared turn/brake light). This circuitry is what Fred is describing in reply #7.
For the Contessa, Monaco took a different approach to accomplish the same.
Using the 2008 Contessa wiring diagram in Coach Assist (more complete than the 2007 copy).
Page 6:
Shows the relationships between the various components and connectors. This page helps to identify the various components, connectors, sources and destinations. This is different than our Patriot, but I believe that the PCBs illustrated on this page are in the front run bay, someone with a Contessa would know better.
Example:
Connector VCD – GRAY (FIREWALL HARNESS) location 1, TO RL25-86. This means, that pin 1 is from the brake switch TO relay 25 terminal 86.
Page 7 & 28:
Wiring diagrams (PCB 3 in the front run bay?).
There are at least six relays that affect or interface the brake lights and turn signals.
Relay 33: cruise control interface.
Relay 25: service brake switch interface.
Relay 26: turn/brake interface for the trailer tow connector.
Relay 19: exhaust brake interface.
Page 29:
Shows the left/right turn signal interface (J11-VCE 5&6 and VCG 11&12 and VCH 1&2).
As with most Monaco wiring diagrams, there seems to be some inconsistency between various diagrams in this set, but the basic operation is the same.
The basic operation for the Contessa trailer tow connector is as follows.
Note:
Power for the coach brake lights DOES NOT pass through the turn signal switch, power is direct from relay 19 terminal 87.
Power for the trailer tow connector brake lights DOES pass through the turn signal switch.
When the service brakes are applied:
Relay 19 is energized, terminal 87 feeds the coach brake lights.
Relay 26 is energized, terminal 87 feeds power from fuse #81 to the turn signal switch. The turn signal switch then passes the brake light signal onto the trailer tow connecter pins #5 and #6. By way of the turn signal switch assembly, the turn signal flasher takes priority over the brake light.
Example:
No turn signal selected and the service brake pedal is depressed. The brake light switch energizes relay 26, relay 26 terminal 87 passes power from fuse 81 to the turn signal switch. The turn signal switch passes power to trailer tow connector pins #5 and #6 (both brake lights are on).
The left turn signal is selected and the service brake pedal is depressed. The brake switch energizes relay 26, relay 26 terminal 87 passes power from fuse 81 to the turn signal switch. The turn signal switch interrupts fuse 81 power to the trailer tow connector pin #5 and in turn passes signal flasher power to pin #5, leaving pin #6 energized with relay 26 power (left turn signal is flashing and right brake light on).
The right turn signal is selected and the service brake pedal is depressed. The brake switch energizes relay 26, relay 26 terminal 87 passes power from fuse 81 to the turn signal switch. The turn signal switch interrupts fuse 81 power to the trailer tow connector pin #6 and in turn passes signal flasher power to pin #6, leaving pin #5 energized with relay 26 power (right turn signal is flashing and left brake light on).
If you’re turn signals (amber lens) and brake lights (dual red lens) for the coach are working correctly;
1.) A fuse is likely not the issue because all brake light power is single sourced from fuse #81 (15-amp)
2.) Also, relay 19 is likely not the issue (coach red brake lights).
I would start troubleshooting at the turn signal switch. Make sure that the switch is receiving brake signal power (from relay 26-terminal 87) when the brake pedal is depressed. The turn signal switch has the final control over the combined brake light/turn light operation (trailer tow connecter).
If there is brake light signal into the turn signal switch but none out, the switch is bad.
If there is no power into the turn signal switch, check the operation of relay #26. It must be energized and 12-volt power on terminal 87 when the service brake pedal is depressed.
If the operation of relay #26 checks out, then you have a connection or wiring issue.
Check the wiring harness inside of the steering column. A common failure point for faulty turn signal switch operation is the wiring harness inside the steering column. Sometimes the connections are pulled loose when adjusting the column.
You can probably eliminate a wiring issue from the front run bay to the trailer tow connector because the same two wires are used for both the turn signal and brake lights.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe that the turn signal switch layout is shown in the Contessa wiring diagrams, you can find turn signal switch layout on page 193 in the 2007 Patriot Thunder diagram, it SHOULD be similar to the Contessa.
-Scott
Steve Huber:
Richard,
Do the brake lights on the coach work when the toad is not connected? How about when the toad is connected? Please clarify. (My understanding was that they worked).
Thx, Steve
Richard Shrode:
Wholly smokes Scott, that’s quite a response. Thank you. We got home this evening and I plan to start working on this tomorrow. My significant other, who’s been following me in our toad, has made it clear that if I know what’s good for me I’ll get this fixed asap :)
Steve, yes, the brake lights on the coach work whether the toad is connected or not.
I’ll be sure to update this thread as things progress
Thank you
Richard Shrode:
UPDATE:
I currently have working brake lights on the toad. I took Scott’s advice and checked out the wiring from the turn signal on the steering column. Long story short, the wires terminated in a plug/socket alongside the steering column that I don’t think was completely seated. It was difficult to pull apart and harder to put back together. As difficult as it was to put back together I'm not convinced it was ever fully seated. Cleaned the contacts and with a little help from some channel locks and a zip tie I think it's as good as new, or better.
Thank you to everyone for your help.
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