General Boards > General Discussion
Dinghy Brake System
Gil_Johnson:
Bill's description of the Brakemaster system is exactly the same as SMI's Air Force One. I don't know about the Brakemaster system, but AF1 includes a small air tank and solenoid to support a break-away capability.
I too have no idea how much braking is being supplied. When I did the install I adjusted how far the pedal was pulled. My goal is to only provide some braking when braking hard or if the vehicle separates from the coach.
Joel Weiss:
As a retired physics teacher, I will re-state the argument I use every time this discussion comes up on a forum. I'm sure it isn't going to change anyone's mind, but I would feel remiss if I did make the case.
I don't dispute the fact that the MH is capable of stopping itself and a toad vehicle under most circumstances. As long as the toad lines up well with the MH the force on the MH from the toad will be in the same direction as the MH is moving and braking and there should be no issues. However, if you are braking in a situation in which the toad does not line up with the MH there will be a lateral force on the rear axle of the MH.
If you are towing a 5,000 lb vehicle then the sideways force can be ~25% of the ~20,000 lb load on the rear axle. Will this be enough to "kick" the axle sideways and put you into a skid, who knows? As far as I am concerned, if I can spend ~$1000-1500 to reduce this risk, I will.
Bill Sprague:
--- Quote from: Edward Buker ---..... Now a question or two....has anyone had a car breakaway, what happened and what caused it? Anyone have a tow bar problem while using a toad braking system? Anyone have a braking system malfunction in the toad and if so what happened?
--- End quote ---
I personally know of a few. One close friend lost his Jeep Wrangler. It went into the median and stopped. Another friend lost a Jeep Cherokee and it was totaled. No injuries in either case. Both were using safety chains that somehow came loose. Both were towbar failures but, without some work, I can't tell you what they were.
One short term friend I met in a campground was getting new toad brakes because his auxiliary brakes were constantly applied on a long trip. There was some heat damage too. I don't recall the brand of equipment.
Another failure was on our Subaru. The Roadmaster Falcon II system was installed by a high volume hitch shop near Seattle. A few years later and after a trip across the Cascades on Highway 410 near Mount Rainier, I found the base plate wiggled when I unhitched. I took the car back to the shop. I remember the mechanic saying, "S.O.B! I ain't never seen that s**t before!" One of the mounting bolts had pulled through the car's frame, or what would be a frame if it wasn't a unibody. Thinking I might be buying a new car, I asked what we should do. In technical terms he replied, "I'll weld 'er up so that f****r 'll never come loose!" He did and it didn't. We traded the car with 60,000 driven miles and 60,000 more towed miles.
I can't say for sure, but I remembered driving through a surprise dip on the highway that was sufficient to toss all the clothes in the closet off the rod. The towbar may have yanked on the base plate enough to pull the bolt through. Or, maybe the bolt had loosened and gradually worked through the frame.
Edward Buker:
Leah,
If I go to jail I hope you do send me some flowers. I hear it is quite drab in there :-) Throw in some extra towels and some good reading material also.
Bill,
I'm glad that you brought up known failures and gave us some insight on your Subaru fail. It may have been that Locktite was not used as required by Blue Ox if someone was in too much of a hurry. Maybe the baseplate manufacturer in your case did not require that the mechanic use Locktite or he just forgot to tighten the bolt. You can imagine the movement of a loose mounting bolt with constant acceleration and decelaration on the road. I have also met several folks that have smoked the toad brakes having been applied and remained on while driving. It is another system with elecrtrical and mechanical devices...
Tom,
You bring up a good point that the emergency braking system could cause the back up safety cables or chains to fail and jettison the toad from the coach breaking the redundant safety system cables.
I'm not advocating that anyone not use a toad braking system just that the decision is a personal one based on your assessment of the risks involved. I know that some states would frown on my take on this but in my opinion I am not finding a strong case for improved safety having one of these extra systems installed on my coach and toad.
Later Ed
Edward Buker:
This is a bit surprising to me when I checked the table in the link below,.... Many folks site the law as requiring that your toad be equipped with an active braking system when being towed. There seems to be little to no requirements by the states regarding brakes on toads, Two states Florida and Nevada have agressive weight restrictions, Florida at 3000lbs and Nevada at 1500lbs. When you read the statutes sited from the table in this summary it would appear to me that they are refering to weight limits on towed trailers. Some of those restrictions are waived for adequate brake performance at 20MPH. It looks like many states have much more agressive braking requirements when the towed load reaches 40% or more of the towing vehicles weight. I'm under 10%....
http://home.roadrunner.com/~morodat/toad-brakes-by-state.html
This is the section of the Nevada statute that applies to towing... Florida seems much like it...
5. Every trailer, semitrailer, house trailer and pole trailer equipped with air- or vacuum-actuated brakes and every trailer, semitrailer, house trailer and pole trailer with a gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds, manufactured or assembled after July 1, 1969, must be equipped with brakes acting on all wheels and of such character as to be applied automatically and promptly, and remain applied for at least 15 minutes, upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.
6. Every trailer, semitrailer, house trailer or pole trailer of 3,000 pounds or more gross weight or equaling more than 40 percent of the towing vehicle, manufactured or assembled before July 1, 1975, must be equipped with brakes on at least two wheels.
7. Except as otherwise provided by law, every motor vehicle used to tow a trailer, semitrailer, house trailer or pole trailer equipped with brakes must be equipped with means for providing that, in case of breakaway of the towed vehicle, the towing vehicle will be capable of being stopped by the use of its service brakes.
I suppose you could stretch the intent of the law to include other things like cars but the law seems quite specific here. They expect trailers to have brakes and if the trailer breaks away that it does not by design disable the towing vehicle.
Anyone know someone who has been ticketed for not having an active breaking system on the toad and where it was?
Later Ed
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