General Boards > General Discussion
Types of brakes for towing
Bill Sprague:
--- Quote from: Jerry Carr ---Joel I like your idea of just hooking up the brake line and watching the action with a hand held radio I think I will give it a try this week before we head south, I'll let you know what I see, but I may still need a scottie to really analyze the results Bill!
--- End quote ---
'v
I've done that. When it was new, I had someone (probably BJ) pump the MH pedal so I could watch the toad pedal move. It did.
My point is that, no matter what system you have, there is a lot of guessing going on. First, there is no way to determine how hard the pedal should be pressed when the power brakes are off. Then, even if there are settings (like on a Brake Buddy) you have to estimate what you want.
A few years back I was in a Roadmaster booth at a rally somewhere. I had not spent money on a brake system yet. I was looking at the Brakemaster because it seemed simple. Someone with a Roadmaster shirt on was standing there. Since there are no settings and it operates on air pressure, a primary design issue is the diameter of the cylinder. So I asked if there were different sizes and how to pick. Turns out the guy wearing the shirt introduced himself as the company "engineer". He explained there was one size and he was the one that determined that size. I asked how that was determined. Expecting engineering math to be involved, he answered. He said that he used a company van with dark windows so that he could ride in the van behind a motorhome (which I think is illegal). He said he tried different sizes until it felt about right. That was engineering I understood, so I bought one.
When a 30,000 to 45,000 pound motorhome is pulling a 3500 to 4500 pound car of various makes and models with the engine off, nobody knows how hard the brake pedal needs to be pressed in the toad for any stopping event.
There is only one exception. It commonly shows up in two applications.
David T. Richelderfer:
In fact, if you had someone riding in the toad for the specific reason to apply the toad brakes when the MH brake lights come on, even then the person in the toad would not know how much brake pressure to apply. So it's all a mute point. All we can hope for is the toad brakes assist in the braking of the MH and toad unit's overall weight. I have an Even-Brake. It has a method to apply less-to-average-to-more brakes on a sliding scale. But there is no way to know where to set the sliding scale. I would guess the heavier the toad, the more braking assistance I would want from the toad... given it is applying more inertia to the MH and toad unit's overall weight. But... doesn't every vehicle come equipped with brakes engineered for its weight?
Bill Sprague:
--- Quote from: David T. Richelderfer ---....... But... doesn't every vehicle come equipped with brakes engineered for its weight?....All we can hope for is the toad brakes assist in the braking of the MH and toad unit's overall weight.
--- End quote ---
Probably. I assume they all come with power brakes that can be applied with a light touch from a small foot that may even be wearing high heels -- even if its a Suburban. But, what if the power brakes are shut off? Is there a standard somewhere that says all vehicles with failed power brakes will stop from 65 mph in 1/4 mile with 10 pounds of brake pedal pressure?
As you say, "All we can hope for is the toad brakes assist in the braking of the MH and toad unit's overall weight."
I towed a 3,000 pound Subaru for about 60k miles with no brake system. We upgraded to a 4,200 pound Ford and put in a brake system. As we all do, I drive to avoid panic stops. So far, I've not noticed any difference having a brake system in use for normal stopping -- other than an LED blinking at me from the toad.
My personal feeling is that I have not received any braking benefit from my $1,000 Brakemaster. I may have some emotional benefit in the hope it might help in a panic stop.
I do have the added risk of the emergency breakaway system malfunctioning, getting the toad brakes too hot and burning up our Ford!
LEAH DRAPER:
We should NOT overlook another aspect of having "toad brakes"....the state legal laws and related insurance issues.
Bill Sprague:
--- Quote from: LEAH DRAPER ---We should NOT overlook another aspect of having "toad brakes"....the state legal laws and related insurance issues.
--- End quote ---
You are right Leah. But, that is an even bigger can of worms because the states and provinces are not uniform on the difference between "towed vehicles" and "trailers". Nor are they uniform on reciprocity. On top of that, there are no federal, state or even manufacturer association standards on what toad brakes are supposed to do.
If you look at this chart (http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm), 38 states have "No Laws Regarding" brake laws on towed cars. Canada is about the same. My favorite is Quebec that says "Not recommended, but legal." What does that mean?
The good news is that in years of reading motorhome forums, I have not read a single first hand experience where tickets were issued or lawsuits filed over toad brakes. Yes, there are a bunch of theories and stories, but so far no first hand instances I can find.
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