Won't start.

[John Fearnow]

We have a 2002 Thunder new to us last Nov. We experienced the sour smell eminating from the washer/dryer.  Check to see if you have any filler foam around the w/d drain hose where it sits in the stand pipe from the gray water tank.  If there is no sealer there fumes come up around the drain hose from the gray tank.  Bend repair center showed us this.  

In our w/d (Adide brand I believe) water sits in a collection channel below the lint filter.  If it is not used for a while that water can get stinky also.  I think you can get rid of the water at least for storage periods by cycling the w/d a few times after turning off the water supply at the service manifold. That will pump the water out of the unit.  May have to manually get the water out of the bottom of the lint filter.

John Fearnow
2002 Patriot Thunder, C-12

[Steve Adams]

Thanks to everyone for their continued interest in this thread.

I purchased replacement filters today and a biocide before I read Geralds excellent post on biocides. I got the filters and biocide from NAPA. The biocide is BIOBOR JF "The industry standard for the tratment and prevention of microbial growth". An 8 ounce container will treat 320 gallons of fuel.

The filters are NAPA Gold, 3231 for the fuel/water separator and 3626 for the fuel filter. These are 14 and 6 micron filters respectively. Wolfe on the caterpillar site says the filters should be 10 or 30 micron and 2 micron. Is there another filter I'm missing, maybe engine mounted? I did an exact replacement on the filters assuming they were the correct fit, etc.

He recommended (and stated that caterpillar recommended) replacing the filters dry. Can I assume the bulb on top of the fuel/water separator is to prime it and the fuel filter after replacement? Should I put the key in the accessory position to start the fuel pump a few times before actually starting?

It looks like a straight forward replacement, and maybe being a little to cautious but I don't want to make this any worse.

Thanks for the advice on the washer and levelers. I should start separate threads as suggested.

Thanks again, Steve

[Gerald Farris]

Brett Wolfe is right on the fuel filter, you should be using a 2 micron filter. If you do not know how to purge the air out of the system when changing filters you probably should consider having a professional do it and watch him carefully so you can do it next time. It will be a cheap education because if you get a fuel system full of air it can be a big problem.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

If you fill a fuel filter "prime" before installing do not pour fuel down the center hole and the fuel you pour in will be filtered like any other. Mostly a matter of preference as it just speeds things up.  The primimg pump you mentioned is for filling the filters also. Read your CAT engine manual about how long to use the starter so you do not over heat it when you restart after changing the filters as it can require turning the engine over a few times to get the system fully primed.

Most fuel delivery systems  uses two filters or a water seperator and filter. The best filter life is a primary with water seperator (visible bottom) at 30 micron and secondary 2 micron fuel filter. A lot of the aftermarket (not CAT brand) secondary filters are 5 micron like you purchased and commonally used but cause shorter injector life if you use poor quality fuel.

[Arden Smith]

Also being somewhat of a mechanic, the problem seems to be heat related because of the not starting until time had passed. In effect, cooling down. In the gas world, general motors had a problem with the starter solenoid getting too hot by the exhaust manifold causing it to sieze and not operate until it had cooled down.  I know you said the starter worked just fine, Just follow my train of thought. When you shut the engine down, it releases a fuel shutoff solenoid. Then engine perks or for a short time actually gets hotter as the coolant flow stops and the residual heat builds up. Could this cause the fuel shut off solenoid to sieze and not open up until it had a chance to cool down? Just another idea to work with. What was your engine temp when you shut it down and or does it run elevated more than normal or did you just pull a real hard grade before shutting down for fuel?
I don't know if this is possible with a diesel engine but maybe!!!
Arden Smith
98 Monterey
300 Cat

[Steve Adams]

Arden, thanks for the new idea. I just got the coach back from Pacific Power Products in Ridgefield, WA last week after it had been there for 3 weeks. They repalced the fuel filters and said there was NO algea in the fuel system. There were also no active or stored engine codes so they were stumped as to where to look for the starting issue.

When we stopped for fuel it was after about 1.5 hours of driving on OK roads, no significant grades. We stopped about 15 minutes earlier and shut down to unhook the toad as it is a little tight getting it through the gas island. After disconnecting, it started right up and driven less than 10 minutes to the station where I filled up.

The only odd thing I noticed was the fuel filler cap sucking air as I removed it. When I tried to start post fill up, the noises the engine made were "normal" as far as I could tell. It just seemed that it would not fire. Battery voltage was greater than 13 per the gauge, I tried tying in the other battery to no avail. After I called the Insurance company for the tow, I tried again. At this point the coach had sat about 25 minutes. Same as before. When the wrecker showed up I tried one more time and it fired up as soon as I hit the starter.

We have had no issues since and this has been the only occurence.

Thanks to everyone for their input so far. Please keep those ideas coming.

Thanks, Steve

[George Harwell]

If the fuel tank is sucking air when the fuel cap is removed then you have a vacuum being created by the lack of air replacing the fuel being used. Eventually the vacuum will be so great the fuel pump cannot overcome it and the engine refuses to run from the lack of fuel. If I were you I would be investigating the fuel tank vent for an obstruction. I know you have been actively chasing this problem so hope this will solve the delima. GOOD LUCK!

[Tom Rogers]

Strange about the vac build-up. I know our 06 has an overflow tube on top of the tank because I experienced an over-flow/top-off once. What I don't know if that tube is open both ways or has a one way check valve allowing out flow but not in. I've heard of people drilling holes in the fuel cap but I won't recommend that. Also I looked thru my operators manual and couldn't find and reads about venting. When in doubt how about a call over to Bend.

[Bruce Benson]

At this point I would let it go.  Too much water under the bridge to ever know.  Just put a little extra time in your calender in case it happens again.  Remember the number of times you tried to start it and how much time elapsed then duplicate that.  

If it ever does happen again try cracking open a bleed plug on the fuel pump and see what comes out as you crank.  Also consider calling a service truck rather than a tow truck.

Bruce  

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Fuel tanks are vented as mentioned above and you may have a clogged vent which would allow a vacuum to cause the fuel starvation similar to a clogged fuel filter. You may want to check the tank vent or if it happens again and you remove the fuel cap and your engine starts you will know the problem and what to do to fix it.

[Mike And Mary Engen]

Not familiar with the venting system on your rig and if this makes sense or not:
Problems on our boat with dual engines shutting down, thought I had a clogged filter.
Would change it and the boat would run again (must have been venting the system so
it would start).  Happened again and it turned out to be mud daubers had plugged the
vent.