Help ... Please. SMS/magnum Leveling System and Main slide not working

[RebeccaKlein]

Good morning all and Happy New Year!  We are in Kansas City and have been experiencing some issues. I think my coach hates the cold as much as I do. I am unable to pull in my main/living room and kitchen slide. At the same time I cannot operate my leveling system and three of the 4 leveling arms are stuck down. I know that the hydraulic pump is the common thread. I checked the level of the fluid in the service bay. The fluid is full. When I try to pull in the slide or perform a manual retract of the leveling arms I do hear the pump running but do not get any movement at all.

Has anyone experienced this. I thought maybe it was a power issue to the pump because my battery cables were corroded at the back two terminals of the house batteries. This problem has been taken care of and the terminals are clean now.

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Rebecca, I believe that you checked the power steering hydraulic fluid.  At least on our 98 Pat the levelers had a pump just forward of the battery bay.  It is hard to find.
Not sure about your SMS system as ours was RVA.
You should have a better answer than this soon.

[RebeccaKlein]

Thank you for your answer. According to all of the manuals I have for my Patriot the hydraulic fluid is at the rear of the service bay where the oil is checked and the compressor is located. There is a white plastic container that has Dexron II printed on it. According to all my manuals on the magnum B-Series chassis this is where it is located.

I was able to get my main slide in yesterday showing that my pump is ok but I have still not been able to lift the back two leveling jacks. I believe low battery conditions on the house battery may have caused this. It seems like my front left side of the coach has dumped the air and has not come back up, even though I have run the engine for an extended period of time. I am still at a loss and since this is a holiday weekend I am unable to find anyone open to help.

Praying for some answers today.

[Grant Ralston]

Rebecca,
Many problems can appear when battery voltage is low.  My jacks (RVA) retract with springs (the pump does not operate).  If the battery power opens the hydraulic valve releasing the jack pressure the springs on the jacks push the hydraulic fluid back to the reservoir.   The first step in solving your issues should be on the electric side making sure your batteries are up to voltage.  If you know you have good battery voltage, than report back if you can start your engine, if you have lights on the dash, etc.
 

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Rebecca
There are two places to check the fluid level that each uses Dextron.  Look in the chassis manual under the section for levelers and it should show where the resivoir for the leveler pump is.  On ours it was a tall narrow metal housing with a narrow spout like like extension on top.  It was behind the skirting just forward of the batteries.
You dont say if you are plugged into shore power.  A volt meter (multi meter) can tell you if your batteries are low.  They should be in the 13.5 volt range.
I am sure you will hear from better sources than I soon or you can call BCS tomorrow.
good luck and God bless

[RebeccaKlein]

I have an plugged into a 50 amp shore power. My batteries are all reading the proper AMPS. The main slide is operational but running extremely slow now. I do have one jack, right front operational. DC house voltage is at 13.5. My batteries are 3 years old. A car battery in The Arizona heat only lasts about 3 years. Is it possible that the battery power is declining too much to push the jacks when they are being used?  One of my batteries had an unusual amount of corrosion built up on the terminal. It was cleaned yesterday. i plan on replacing the 4 house batteries tomorrow morning and will see if that helps.

I do have a concern about my air suspension. I was told to attemp to re-level the coach which would possibly bring the levelers back up and reseat them. The only one that came up was the right front arm. The left front of the coach is listing at the left front tire. I cannot perform an air dump at all. Even when attempting to re-level the coach only a small amount of air is dumped. I would think this is from the leveling jacks being in place and the coach cannot be lowered.

I have read and re-read the Magnum Chasis manual and only find one hydraulic fluid location, in the service bay. I do see that it shows (power steering) after this. I have read today about draining the air reservoirs daily to ensure that excessive water is not accumulated in the system. This is the first time I have read this and wonder if this could be causing my problem? Any thoughts on this?

I guess I picked the wrong weekend to break down. Even a call to Good Sam road service did not help. I was told that there are no mechanics available today and that I will have to wait until tomorrow. Eventually I will understand this coach more. At least I am not afraid to learn Nd not afraid of getting a little (or a lot) dirty.

Have a good night and I pray for better results tomorrow. I am sure ready to get back to the warm Arizona desert! Thanks again for any input.

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Rebecca
Getting somewhat dirty never really hurts but glad you arent afraid of that.
Here are a few points to consider.
1)  we all go through a learning phase which is confusing.  It gets easier.
2)  It sounds like you are using the CMP (-10 ?) To check the batteries.  This does not check the chassis batteries.  Only the house batteries.  If the chassis batteries connections are clean and fluid is right, they should read over 13 Volts on a hand held meter.  Most of the systems you ask about run off of the chassis batteries.  An equalizer is used to keep the chassis batteries charged while on shore power but you may not have one or it may be malfunctioning.
3)  our SMC pump is under the 3rd step at the entry door.  It may be hard to remove this step to check this.  If you lay under the entry you should see it .  If you have a quikie step it will be just behind that I believe.  This pump has to be there somewhere and has its own fluid tank. 

[RebeccaKlein]

Thank you for the information Keith. I have checked the house batteries with a hand held device and they are all reading correctly. I have not checked the Chasis batteries yet since I was told that those items function off the house batteries by the PO. I will
Check that this morning and also check for the other hydraulic tank. I am able to start the engine on the first crank when connected to the shore power. A few months ago I let the coach sit, connected to shore power and I had to use the start assist to start up. I have not had problems since then with it.

Thank you for the information and I will figure this out this morning or have Cummins Central here this afternoon. Warm weather awaits!!

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Hi again
They seemed to do things differently by model and or year so yours is likely somewhat different.  The pump / resivoir for the levelers id under the middle step.  Perhaps you will notice a step that looks slightly different than the rest?  Regardless you should find a tank / pump unit.  Picture a drum abiut 10 inches in diameter and a foot long layed on its side with a fill spout stuck into it pointing up.  The easy way is to activate the level system and track down the motor noise.
Things are different with batteries as well.  Mostly it is safe to consider that anything normaly asociated with a truck like engine or transmission, lights etc... or the mechanical stuff like levels or slides are all off the chasis batteries.  Hydronic heat is run off the chassis batteries as well. 
For these reasons it can sometimes be helpful to run the generator first if problems present.
I certainly dont have all the answers because there is just so much.  I do hope you find the help you need.  BCS is always a good information source.

[Gerald Farris]

Rebecca,
Your leveling system does have a separate fluid reservoir from the one that you referred to that powers the power steering, and it is connected to the leveling system pump. You can locate the pump by having someone operate the leveling system from inside the coach while you lessen form outside the coach. The pump noise will lead you to it's location. However, I do not think that low fluid level is your problem because raising or lowering the jacks is only transferring fluid from one side of the jack piston to the other and not depleting fluid from the reservoir, but it doesn't hurt to check.

Your leveling system problem sounds like a control module or solenoid problem instead of a pump problem, because very little pressure is required to raise the jacks. If you can not determine the problem, you can just loosen both hydraulic hoses at each of the nonfunctioning jacks, but this can be dangerous as that will lower the coach as the jacks retract, so safety supports are needed. Loosening the hoses and tightening them after the jacks are fully refracted will make the coach drivable, but you will not have a leveling system until it is repaired.

As for replacing you house batteries because they are 3 years old, that is a bad idea. Your house batteries should last from 5 to 8 years will reasonable maintenance. Also, there is almost no chance that batteries are causing your problem if you are plugged into shore power with the house batteries being charged by the inverter and the chassis batteries being able to start the engine.

Gerald

[David T. Richelderfer]

On my coach, a Marquis like Keith's and not a Patriot, the hydraulic pump and reservoir for the two living room slides and the hydraulic leveling are located under that second entry step.  But I cannot lift the step to access the reservoir's fill cap.  Well, at least the step does not lift easily and I do not want to pry on it for risk of tearing something apart.  Yesterday I put some Dexron VI into the reservoir because on the last day's drive the alarm bell would ring on bumps.  I had to start the engine to raise the coach to its full bag height in order to get in under the frame.  I slide a clean and opened cardboard box under the frame and slide in on the slick cardboard.  Getting the fill cap off, checking the oil level and adding oil ain't so easy, but can be done with a small funnel and patience.  I really do wish that step was removable because that would make adding oil a much easier task.

[Gerald Farris]

Rebecca,
Look for you leveling pump with the method that I detailed above. On most of the SMC era Patriots the pump is located in the RR of the coach and it is under the front steps in the Marquis.

Gerald

[RebeccaKlein]

Ok I have found the pump and the large black metal cylinder at the rear right of the coach. I have not yet found the fluid container for the system but will have my son check this afternoon/evening.  The pump runs and does operate only the right front Jack. The coach is leaning to the left quite a bit. I am unable to get the coach to dump air or to "air up" the left front.

I have found fresh hydraulic fluid around the base of the back left Jack. I do not believe that it was there the other day and could be coming from the connection of the line. 

Cummins Central Coach Care has been here today trying to figure this out but so far we've been unsuccessful in doing so. The mechanic has the diagrams from Monoco and is going to try to study them this evening to see if he can figure out what is going on. 😩

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

  Well, at least the step does not lift easily and I do not want to pry on it for risk of tearing something apart.
[/quote]
Hi David
just a side bar here but our step was just like that.  Turned out that the dirt builds up and it the step has not been removed it becomes stuck.  I used the side of a hammer under the lip on the step.  As soon as the riht (front) end came loose the whole step lifted out.  A little sweep up and it works like a champ.  Beats filling it from underneath.

[Joel Weiss]

Ok I have found the pump and the large black metal cylinder at the rear right of the coach. I have not yet found the fluid container for the system but will have my son check this afternoon/evening.  The pump runs and does operate only the right front Jack. The coach is leaning to the left quite a bit. I am unable to get the coach to dump air or to "air up" the left front.

It's quite likely that the fluid reservoir is in the top of the "cylinder" that you found.  Even though your jacking system is different than mine, I bet the pump is the same.  If the pump operates one jack then fluid level is probably not the problem, however.