Author Topic: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.  (Read 6128 times)

Jim Edwards

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Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« on: May 08, 2017, 11:24:17 PM »
Hi, Outside temperatures are a little colder than usual and HYDRO HOT is using basement zone as priority and taking a bit of time switching to the cabin heating zones. In checking basement temp with Aladdin I am up to 70F in the basement with 53 outside temp. 34F forecast for tonight. So I have the following questions for those Monterey owners of a similar vintage.

1) What is your basement temp when in cooler climates as reported by Aladdin?
2) What is the location of the basement thermostat?
3) Where does the basement heater air duct route to? The heating coil is on the passenger side and routes to the drivers side in the holding tank compartment. Aladdin basement temp sensor is in that same bay and appears to be accurate. I am thinking that Basement Temp sensor is either bad or it is in another bay and I have a air/heat circulation issue. Or I suppose that this is just the way it is but manual indicates else. (although when has the manual been misleading?)

Any thoughts ?

Jim Edwards
2005 Monterey Laguna III, 40 ft Cat C9
2007 Country Coach Affinity 45 ft Cummins 600
15 Grand Cherokee
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Dick Simonis

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 12:12:09 AM »
I find that my bays are heated quite nicely by the inverter and have often seen temps in 70's even with the AH off.

Bryan Schmidt

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 05:40:00 AM »
Jim:

On our shorter 2005 36' Monterey IV, we have only 2 heating zones on our Hydro-Hot HHE-200-09E:  Front: under kitchen sink cab, under ref cab & front drivers console; and Rear: under vanity next to shower, under sink cab in toilet room, under slide out bed & basement.

Reply to your questions:
1) our basement temps (via Aladdin & seperate secondary remote thermostat I had installed, within 1- 2 deg of each other) nominally stays at about the same temp as the interior of the coach, approx 65+/- 3 deg when we are in the coach camping, w/ RS2000 inverter running/charging, at comfortable exterior low temps of 45-55 deg.     

When camping in cooler (think fall) exterior temps, lows in the low 30's to mid 40's, the basement still hovers around the same as interior temps of 65 deg since the rear zone HH is running occasionally (and once exterior temps forecast to below 40, I make sure to plug in the water pipe heat strips that wrap around the fresh water pipes in the holding tank bay, just in case).   

When camping in cold winter temps,  say 15 to low 30s, since the rear zone hydro is cycling through the day and night, we still maintain the basement at 60 degree +/-5.   

Even back when we were living in Colorado,  we hardly ever winterized the coach since we used the Beaver almost every other weekend to go up to ski country (e.g.: Breckenridge, Aspen, etc) for snowshoeing, X-country ski, winter festivals, etc.  During the mid week time the Beaver was parked next to the house, plugged into 120V 50A, & in 10-15 deg lows at night, the hydro hot was noiminally left on for backup if needed, but both interior zone thermostats set to 40 deg.  I kept an elec thermostatically controlled oscillating heater running in the mid interior of the coach, blowing toward the rear to keep the interior above 45 always, and all cab door open for air circulation around pipes to minimize cold spots.   In the basement, the inverter/charger was running (generating basement heat) and I kept a 75w trouble light turned on and small 120V single speed desk fan running in the main storage bay for air movement down there.  The between bay recessed access panels were removed as well as the snap on water pump access panel to allow for better air movement.  Even at 10 deg F outside, the bay temps stayed at no less than 45 deg, tracked via remote thermometers that had daily & weekly min/max temps recordings in each of the 3 bays (holding tank, main storage, fresh water/HH).  One primary reason we bought the Beaver in 2006 was to be able to use it frequently in the cold winter in Colorado Mts due to its outstanding thermal qualities.   Lowest temp we had the coach out camping was at Breck one night when the temp dipped to -18 deg F outside and we were just great inside (and the basement too)

2) Basement thermostat location:  After re-checking our manual, our coach says it has a basement thermostat that is set at 36 deg +/-2 for HH turn-on of the rear zone, with shut down of 45 deg +/- 3, assuming the HH diesel or electric switch is energized.  The manual's picture of the basement thermostat must have been drawn by a 5 yr old.   On our 36' Monterey,  I found what I believe to be the basement thermostat to be screwed and wall mounted, below the solar panel controller, and both are also mounted in the holding tank bay.    I did not have the camera with me tonight but will offer to take a pic of suspect basement thermostat tomorrow if you want.   To describe it, I would say it is cylindrical, like a stack of (6-8) quarters in size & height, with a metal friction clip attached and (2) purple wires coming out of it and running into the main wire loom.   I did tonight not check for any mfg/model markings to verify the unit's purpose.

3) Basement heat duct:  On our 05 36' Monterey, our basement HH heat exchanger, which is on the rear heating zone, is also in the holding tank bay, with a passenger side open vent and a duct to what appears the other side of the coach (would need to remove the drivers side white fiberglass water panel bay cover to verify the duct termination location)    I can also take pics of the bay heat exchanger if you want.   How exactly each the HH water supply/return lines run I do not know for sure, but for the rear hear zone, the pipes appear to run from the initial zone 2 pump, then to the basement heat exchanger, then up into to the vanity/shower interior heat exchanger, and either to the interior under bed or toilet room heart exchangers

Can you tell us how you determined the basement thermostat was calling for aux HH heat?  Was it from a light on the HH status panel ( which light was illuminated) or did you actually hear the basement heat exchanger running, or something else?

Net:  if your 40' Laguna is anything like out 36' Monterey, and you have the inverter/charger running (assuming you are plugged into elet at your site) and the HH set to heat the interior rear (assuming you also only have 2 heat zones on your HH  HHE-200), even for a mid 20 to upper 30 deg night low, you have nothing to worry about in the basement freezing. 

Hope this helps..
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:23:37 PM by Bryan Schmidt »
2005 Montrery 36' Ventura IV
Cat C9
Towing a Pathfinder
Navigated by 2 cats
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 01:24:40 PM »
To my knowledge the basement exchanger in the waste tank bay is essentially a third zone, with its own separate preset thermostat that turns on at around 40 degrees, as long as the HydroHot is on.  Either the Aladdin basement sensor or the thermostat must be askew.  I've not known things to get as warm as 70 bayside when it didn't top 53 outside.  Nor have I noticed the bay exchanger getting priority... only when hot water is demanded do the heaters temporarily take second fiddle.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Bryan Schmidt

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 04:22:03 PM »
I may need to clarify my above post since after rereading it this morning, I could have been clearer differentiating between number of logical defined heat zones and actual plumbed heat loops that interconnect the individual heat exchangers. 

Our HHE-200-09E has only 2 physical heat loops and an associated circulation pump for each loop.  But an HHE-200-09E can have a possible 5 individual defined heat zones.   From the HH manual, Heat zones #1 or 5 run off of circ pump #1 and possible heat zones 2-3-4 run off of circ pump#2.

I believe our coach is wired (mis-wired or re-wired?) to also only have 2 heat zones defined.   I'll verify that by checking the Heat Zone LED control panel lights when each zone is energized and heat exchanger blowers are running and actually blowing hot air versus just having the heated fluid passing through the heat exchangers but the blowers not energized.   
2005 Montrery 36' Ventura IV
Cat C9
Towing a Pathfinder
Navigated by 2 cats

Jim Edwards

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 12:37:04 PM »
At initial switching on of Hydrohot, I show 3 pump indicator lights on control panel, pump (zone?) 3 will be running heating basement? while 1 and 2 are off although inside thermostats are calling for heat. It seems that after basement temp rises, pumps 1&2 will kick on. Note no engine block preheat. It also seems that the 60+temp is not unreasonable/unheard of so maybe it is just how it works. My understanding of operation is limited to observation not documentation. So??? Model of Hydrohot is HHE-500-09E. It is helpful to know size and location of thermostat in b bay to be sure it has not been "insulated" from air flow.

Thanks Again
Jim Edwards
2005 Monterey Laguna III, 40 ft Cat C9
2007 Country Coach Affinity 45 ft Cummins 600
15 Grand Cherokee

Bryan Schmidt

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 03:47:13 PM »
Jim:

Your 500-09M is nearly identical to the 200-09E as they are both listed in the same set of OEM manuals.  Quickly checking, the only difference I see between the 2 models seems to be the 500 was the standard model for the Hydro Hot originally ordered option on the coach and the 200 was installed if the "Engine Pre-Heat" option was also originally ordered on the coach.

I'm assuming you have the following 500-09M Hydro-hot manuals, but here are the links below just in case:
User manual:

http://www.aquahot.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/staticpages/documents/HHE-200-09EandHHE-500-09MHydro-HotOwnersManual08-23-04_001.pdf

Service Manual:

http://www.aquahot.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/staticpages/documents/HHE-200-09E_HHE-500-09M_Service_Manual.pdf

Circ Pump #3 is the Stir Pump which only circulates the hot boiler fluid within the boiler tank to help keep the boiler fluid between 160-190 deg F, i.e: when a domestic hot water faucet is opened, or on initial start up too in order to get the boiler fluid mixed up in the tank and up to temp (I'll try to get down to our 200-09E later today for initial startup LEDs)

When you first start up the HH, and with both living thermostats set to call for heat, what green (or red) LEDs are lit on the left side of the HH Electronic Controller panel in the Heating Zone Status area of the panel?  Circ #1 & 2 may be lit or not, but also knowing which specific defined heat zones are calling for heat would help understand your set up. Circ Pump #1 supports defined heat zones #1 & #5, and Circ Pump #2 supports defined heat zones #2-#3-#4   

Also, once your heat exchanger fans start running in the coach, do the Circ Pump & Heating Zone Status LEDs change?

As Joel pointed out, the basement thermostat should be on a separate defined zone, like Zone #2, which is supported by Circ Pump #2.   I don't yet believe our is wired that way, but will have to prove that yet with actual tests and a meter.

Would you also make note of which heat zone # is displayed on each of your living thermostats, assuming you still have the orig 5 button CCC thermostats?  On the 36' Monterey, each thermostat controls only a single zone.   On ours, the defined heat zone number is displayed on each of the CCC's LCD screen toward the bottom, and for our setup, the front living area is Zone 1 and the rear bath/bed area is Zone 3.  On ours, these CCC zone numbers correspond to the "Heating Zone Status" LEDs on the HH Electronic Controller panel down in the bay: i.e.: when the front thermostat Zone 1 calls for heat and is running, Circ Pump #1 and the Heating Zone Status #1 LEDs are both lit.


« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 03:55:29 PM by Bryan Schmidt »
2005 Montrery 36' Ventura IV
Cat C9
Towing a Pathfinder
Navigated by 2 cats

Bryan Schmidt

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Re: Heat basement temperature in 05 Monterey issue.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 05:14:31 AM »
Jim:

I apologize, but I can't help you any further at this moment in diagnosing your Hydro-Hot issue.   I went down to our coach tonight, and as fate would have it, my HH failed to fire up when I turned on the diesel switch.   I fired up the HH last week.   Just ducky !!!

Whenever the rain stops here, I'll be running several of Roger Berke's trouble shooting guides for failed ignition diagnosis (basic electrical & fuel tests, flame sensor test, etc).   Roger is a certified Aqua-Hot service center since '07 and his website is dedicated to Hydro-Hot and Aqua-Hot issues of all types.   He has loads of practical, detailed guides for downloads, with actual model pictures and tips/what to look for or not do.   Recently, Roger started renting out specialized HH/AH test diagnostic equipment.   

With Roger's help and guidance, I've been able to complete all of my yearly HH maintenance, as well as diagnosing and fixing things like cures for black/white smoke & excessive soot, burner adjustments for major altitude changes  as well as multiple internal parts replacements: e.g.: 2 types of thermostats, combustion chamber & swirler, electrical grommet replacements, controller board, wiring issues, and multiple others "enhancements/fixes".   That's sort of why I'm a little familiar with the HHE-200-09E model in our 05 Monterey since I've had it's guts out on the ground so many times I can't even count, diagnosing burner/running (or not) issues.

You might consider checking out Roger's site since you are an aging Beaver/Hydro-Hot coach owner.    Several other Beaver members, as well as Gerald himself, have recommended Roger as a Hydro/Aqua Hot Go-To resource also.

Here's his site:

http://rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/Index.htm

Maybe someone else on the forum with a 04-06 Monterey could provide some additional input or suggestions for you...  If not, I'm sure Roger could help out if you want to explore it further on his site..



« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 05:09:00 AM by Bryan Schmidt »
2005 Montrery 36' Ventura IV
Cat C9
Towing a Pathfinder
Navigated by 2 cats