Author Topic: Slide over the steps.  (Read 3315 times)

Carl Boger

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Slide over the steps.
« on: December 24, 2019, 02:00:30 AM »
 The slide over my steps is operated by a air piston, but recently it has stopped working.  If I crank the MH and hit the slide out switch the slide stays in, (both switches).  If I grab the slide with a pair of pliers it feels like the cylinder is pulling the slide in.  Sometimes if I forget to turn to switch to the in position when the air is leaking down the slide will extend out when I am gone.
I'm guessing that there must be an electrical component that tells the cylinder which direction to go, open or closed.  Any diagrams of this system or insights would be greatly appreciated.  I am not really sure what I am looking for, guessing the thing with two wires and air lines in the nose of the MH.

I won't be getting to this for at least a few days, but appreciate any help.  Merry Christmas everyone and Happy New Year. 

Thanks Carl
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 07:02:12 PM by Carl Boger »
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Paul Meehan

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2019, 09:15:11 AM »
I had a similar problem.  I found the Norgren valve and or relay on the valve located in the electrical bay under the driver's seat was not operating properly.  I had the valve and relay replaced and all is fine.  There are adjusting stems at the bottom of the valve.  Also, be careful as the valve and air lines are under pressure.
Paul and Peggy
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2019, 12:59:09 PM »
    Carl, The Norgren air valve is a shuttle valve that that directs air in 2 different directions and not uncommon to fail as it comes off the accessory air tank (green needle on air gauge) When you replace it, check for water in the supply air hose as this causes the failure. If there is water, you should drain your air tanks. The thumb screws on the bottom of the valve are the exhaust adjustments in either direction to control the speed so it doesn't slam closed or open
  Merry Christmas & Blessings for the New Year!  Fred
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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2019, 02:57:59 PM »
Thanks everyone, I believe I have that same valve on mine.  Hopefully will get to it after the first of the year.
Carl

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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2019, 05:44:10 PM »
I replaced the Norgren air valve and it didn't fix the problem.  The slide still will not close.  When I changed the air valve I just switched over the old fittings and reattached the air lines.  Are there any other adjustments that need to be done to the air valve, or do I need to start looking toward the electrical side or the actual air ram.  I am hoping it is not the ram since it looks like it will be a pain to change out.  The small box on the top right corner looking at the air valve came new with the new valve and it looks to have a few adjustments, but I don't want to mess them up if they were set up correct from the factory.

I also saw no signs of water in the air lines or tank, and the air dryer cycles regularly so I think I as good there. 
The green air gauge will also start to leak air within 24 hours and will settle and only hold air at around 5 to 10 psi, while the orange needle will hold over 60 psi for a month or more. I haven't been able to find where it is leaking.

Does any one know a good way to test out the electrical side of the step cover.  Looks like a red wire to the front top terminal, and 2 black wires to the top back terminal, then a black wire underneath  on a lower terminal.  I am guessing red is positive, two blacks are triggers, and lower black is the ground?

Thanks Carl
Carl

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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2019, 02:24:38 AM »
Just as a update,

Today after I aired up the MH I sprayed the air hose fitting closest to the steps with soapy water and didn't see any signs of a leak.  I grabbed the metal bar under the slide and pulled it out some, and air pressure was pulling it back.  I also noticed with it not  being pulled all the way in I could see a air leak coming from the end of the ram where it enters the housing.  Thinking this might be my problem I decided to go ahead and remove the ram.

Once it was out blowing air from and air hose into the fittings the ram worked in both directions.  A small shot of air aimed at the hole would shoot out or retract the ram with no problem.  It does look to me like it is missing a seal from the end where the ram extends since it is a threaded end, but maybe it is supposed to be that way.  Can anyone tell from the picture. 

I believe there was only a noticeable air leak because I pulled out the ram.  While the ram is out I am open to options as to if I should rebuild it or does it need a seal at the end, if kits are even available. 

So now I have a new air control valve, a air ram that looks like it is working correctly, I am guessing I am again chasing electrical gremlins! 

Again I have 3 connectors going to the control valve.  A red one on the outer top that I figure is the positive.  2 black wires into a single connector behind it (Trigger wires?).  and a black wire under them (ground).  I haven't tested any of them out to verify this yet.

Or can the control valve be adjusted to make the slide work.  I do see adjustments on the control valve.
Thanks for any help 
Carl

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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2019, 08:09:23 PM »
To update again,  I do have 12 volts to the redwire on the air control valve, at least when the dash switch is in one of its two positions.  Can not verify that I am getting 12 volts there from the passengers seat yet however.  The Ram does have a air leak out of the end the ram slides out from so this is probably why my green needle leaks down so fast.  You can blow into it with no load and it works in both directions.  I did find out  that you can not rebuild it, but it is still available to buy.  Should have ask the price!  Took the attachment point off that pushes the slide cover out and it still does not extend under no load, but it is pulling the slide in with a decent amount of force. 

Thinking it is not reversing the air, but why.  Does anyone have a wiring diagram of how this works?  Can not think of anything else it could be.   
Carl

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Mike Shumack

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2020, 12:52:49 PM »
Carl,
My coach is a little newer than yours, but these Step Covers work the same. I noticed in the photo of your that Teflon tape was used on the air line fittings. That's not recommended as some of the Teflon can get into the valve and stop it from working (you can see the excess Teflon on the outside of the fitting and the same thing happens on the inside - which then breaks off and can block the internal valve). I don't know if that happened to your valve or not. So just saying ...

Basically you have an air inlet and two air outlets. It should be easy enough to check that you have air at the inlet (I believe you said you do). Then remove/loosen one or both outlet lines and see if you have air coming out when power is applied to the solenoid.

Here's what my Step Cover solenoid look like (2005 year). Here's the wiring diagram for my coach - I think it will be the same for your Coach.

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/interior/stepcover.php

EDIT: I found this explanation the "MAC Valve" (a different brand Stepwell Cover mechanism but operates the same) that may help you in diagnosing the problem. Note that the solenoid will allow air to exhaust and "open" the Cover when 12V is removed from the solenoid.


« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 01:13:49 PM by Mike Shumack »
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2020, 01:21:31 PM »
Carl,
After re-reading your first post, it sounds like you have a solenoid with "three wires/terminals". If that is correct then the stuff I posted above will not help you. All the Stepwell Cover mechanisms I've read about (the Humphrey and MAC valves) are two wire setups (power applied, or power removed). In you photo it looks like a two terminal solenoid with two wires on one terminal, but I can't tell. Sorry

If you have a three wire solenoid, then it would make sense that one wire is for ground, and the other two would be for extending and retracting of the cylinder.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL

Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2020, 03:01:45 PM »
Here are a few pictures of my wiring set up from the old air control valve.  The top front one is where the red wire is attached, it has 12 volts from the close out switch on the dash in one of the positions with the ignition key turned on.  The top rear one has the two black wires in the single terminal with no voltage, and the bottom one is a single black wire with no voltage.

I don't know what the red cap on the top is for, and I have not turned the red adjustment under the terminals that says " turn to operate.  I will probably try this next since I can always get it back near the same adjustment.

I keep thinking I am chasing a ground issue, but all the grounds I have found so far have been cleaned.

I spoke to the Technical Support staff at Bimba and was told that if any air is getting out then the seal at the end of the cylinder where the ram extends was worn.  I ordered a new cylinder from my local distributor (SR-0427-DPW) and it should be here in about 5 weeks as they will have to make it and then ship it out. 

As for the Teflon tape I noticed that too, a prior owner did that so this close out must have been giving them trouble also.

Thanks for any trouble shooting ideas I am trying to go through this in a logical manner.  I am not in a big hurry since I have a new cylinder coming and that should help with the air leak on the air tank with the green needle.  I may have a friend who is a decent amount smaller than I am try to find where some of this wiring goes since I can barely get to the dash switch and it is a tight fit to get to the air control valve in the nose of the MH. 

Carl

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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2020, 03:03:44 PM »
Pictures that didn't attach
Carl

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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2020, 03:56:47 PM »
Carl,
The wires are shown in a Thunder wiring list and I suspect they are very similar to your hookup.

  Signal         Circuit#         Connectors/pin
 Common       142                C24/16 - C31/9               This is ground
 Step close     131A              C24/17 - C31/10              From Dash switch
 Step open     131B              C24/18 - C31/11              From Dash switch
 
I suspect the dash switch applies 12v to the appropriate open/close wire when pushed.
The wire list is in Coach Assist Wiring Diagrams, 2002-03 Patriot, Firewall Harness, Sheet 4 of 7
Steve
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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2020, 05:09:58 PM »
Thanks Steve,

I probably won't get back out there for a day or two, but that will help
Carl

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Carl Boger

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2020, 08:11:47 PM »
Did a little more checking today between rain storms.  I blew air from my air hose into the out line on the air cylinder and it did make the slide extend so it looks like an electrical problem.

I checked power at the drivers close out switch and the middle red wire does not have any power so I am pretty sure this is my problem.  Can't really chase the wire down right now because of the rain

The passengers switch does have power to the center red wire. Being 3 way type switches they have had me scratching my head.

I've included a diagram if anyone has any insights.  Thanks, Carl   
Carl

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Mike Shumack

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Re: Slide over the steps.
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 11:29:06 AM »
Carl, just to confirm the air cylinder and solenoid is working, with coach aired up, if you disconnect the wires to the solenoid ( ground wire still connected to chassis) and put 12V power to the control wires (one wire at a time) does the side cover open and close?
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL