BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Carl Boger on March 17, 2021, 01:46:58 AM
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My 1998 Beaver Patriot Savannah has a Girard Awning that has worked up until today. Today when we tried to extend it it moved very slowly and the motor was making a grinding sound. After extending it for about 6 inches I thought better of it and retracted. It still moved very slow and made a grinding sound, but did stop automatically when retracted.
After searching on line it seems that there was a replacement motor for this, but I don't know if my motor was ever replaced. The Paperwork that was in my coach when I bought it indicates that I have a Girard B-25 Awning.
Checking their web-site they do not mention the B-25 awning that I can find. I am not sure if they support it or not. I had a friend who is a dealer for them call them this afternoon. The person we talked with was unsure if they had a motor or not and was going to try to locate someone more knowledgeable about the older units.
So with that background, does anyone know if there is a replacement motor for this unit, or replacemant gears? Any part numbers.
I did not pull the end cap off to see if I could access the motor. It looks like I will either have to take the through bolts out of the awning to give me a little room, or clearance the trim about 1/2 a screw head to get the screw out. I am not sure if that would give me enough room to get the motor out or not.
I would appreciate any help in both locating the needed parts, or in how to service the unit. Right now the motor still turns but is slow and noisy. I have also seen posted where the awning can self extend in some situations. Not really wanting to go there ever.
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Carl,
I think it is a Girard G-2000 lateral arm patio awning. If it is located partially recessed into an opening, It is an issue to replace the motor. If you can locate the eyelet the manual crank rod attaches to, that is where the motor is located. The awning (if recessed) needs to be partially un-bolted from the inside nuts enough to get the awning box out past the sidewall to remove the motor. Caution; the lateral arms are spring loaded and will throw you off the ladder. Get the owners repair manual and seek professional help please. Hope this helps & be careful, Fred
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Carl
I believe your awning is surface mounted like mine as Fred stated the awning roller is spring loaded by the arms of you try to unbolt that motor without resting the arms the roller will spin freely and violently allowing the arms to extend .
On your coach the awning box is mounted to aluminium plates bolted through the wall.
there should be a 1/2 gap between the back of the awning box and the wall the thickness of the plates.at the top of the box there should be a rubber seal from the box to the wall which is sometimes missing.
if you fish ratchet straps up behind the box at each of the arm locations and use them to secure the head rail against the box so that the arms can't extend
Then using the manual crank turn the roller enough to release the tension on the roller/ awning fabric loose then and only then can you remove the motor mounting plate and motor
From the reseach I've done Hard used a couple of different motor manufacturers and Florida awning is a distributor for them
https://www.floridaautomatedshade.com/default.asp
Hope this helps and play it safe
Eric
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Carl,
The manual for the B25 awning is in Coach Assist. It includes troubleshooting and a parts list
Steve
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Thanks Steve,
I somehow missed it.
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Following up on what I have learned about Girard awnings so far. Hopefully this can be a starting point for someone in the future.
I have what I believe is a Girard B25 awning. The reason I believe this is that the operating manual I received with my coach. There is not a lot of information or diagrams out there for the B25's.
Measuring my awning it has the same dimensions as the G2000 awnings and looks the same as far as I can tell right now. 19'8'" wide and extending to 9'9". There is more published out there for the G2000's.
Now the bad news is I have one of the awning motors with the black plastic gear case ( see attached). This may or may not have been recalled, but that is most likely water under the bridge now. What makes it bad is that it can reportedly strip the gears out as you drive and the awning will then extend under spring pressure as you are driving! The newer motors are supposed to have metal gear boxes.
So since mine is suspect does anyone know of a way to hold the awning in the closed position? It looks like the gear box is all that holds it in and that there is not much to strap it shut with. My awning is recessed into the side of the coach so I can't get a strap behind it.
I am still waiting for Girard and FAS to get back to me about which motors might fit my awning, maybe I will hear something tomorrow.
I am confident that I will be able to get this fixed one way or another, but right now the lack of information is frustrating. Even trying to identify exactly which awning I have is unclear. Beaver who documented several other systems down to the serial numbers, left the awning off.
My awning also does not have a way to manually extend or retract the awning like some others. The G2000 manual mentions what to do for those awnings without the manual controls, by using the set screws to adjust the opening and closing points for the motor. Didn't see that in the B25 manual that has much less information.
If anyone has any insight on this I am all ears, Especially on how to keep the awning in. I have a trip in April and would hate for it to go out while driving, I can live with not putting it out while there. Not going to put it out anymore until I am prepared to fix it.
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Carl,.
Page 1 of the B25 Manual in Coach Assist describes the procedure to extend and retract the awning manually. The manual was revised in June of 99.
Steve
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Carl, I think the manual crank is on the B-25 is on the opposite end of the motor. If you don't have the rod you can make one from some 1/4" all thread or rod. Extend the awning 10 " enough to tie the arms together (each) closest to the leading edge and the box mount so they cannot extend. Then retract 1 or 2 inches to take the tension off the motor.
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Fred,
The cut out is on the right side, the left side is sealed up so no way to get a rod up there. As in the picture there are also two set screws at the motor like described in the G2000's to set the retraction stop points. Still trying to figure all this out, but what a education.
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Steve,
My awning is not set up like that and really does not look exactly like Diagram 1 to me. I have no proof yet! , but I am leaning toward the fact that I have a G2000 awning and Beaver included a B25 manual that is slightly different than the manual that is online.
Also the BMO motor shown in Diagram 2a doesn't look to me like the picture I posted.
When I read the G2000 manual it explains what to do when a manual crank was not included. The B25 does not in either manual. Like I said it is an education.
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Carl, Sorry for your frustration, I think you have the G 2000 also. Either fabricate a manual rod or purchase one off of ebay because you will need to manually crank it out or in. I made a typo on my last post. Once the arms are restrained so they cannot extend, then crank it OUT another 1/2 turn to take the tension off of the fabric and motor. Once you have the awning box unbolted on the motor end and propped outward past the recessed cavity, changing the motor and wiring lead is pretty easy. You may need to remove your refer to get to the side wall bolts. Hope this helps, Fred
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Thanks Fred,
Still trying to figure this out and it is raining for a few days so will not be working on it, Unfortunately my gear box does not have any type of manual access. There is an access hole, but the box is sealed and does not have any appendages to hook a handle onto. The G2000 manual talks about how to deal with this, the B25 does not. My through bolts are right over my door and easy to access. The G2000 manual talks about loosening only the front bolts on Beavers and keeping them pried out with a screwdriver or something similar to get the needed clearance. Sure sounds like it was written for my coach.
In the interim to keep the awning while driving I believe I can find a small overlapping area on each end and drill a small hole and put it a sheet metal screw to lock the halves together.
I think my coach was probably made right when they were transitioning from the B25's to the G2000's so it may be kind of a experimental hybrid!
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Carl
I don't see it in your pictures but on my coach there is another hex shaped hole which an allen key fits into to manually crank it in or out maybe it's just out of sight or maybe your right there was no provision for manual operation it seems strange though as my unit is a year older than yours and it has a manual provision .
I'll have to take another look at mine maybe what we are looking at is another difference between the old motor ( Plastic gear case) and the updated one.
Eric
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Carl, Under coach assist under awnings is the Girard G-2000. Pages 19 thru 22 gives a detailed explanation including Beaver and Safari applications. Hope this helps, Fred
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Don't know why the picture didn't attach
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Carl
In the Girard G2000 manual there is reference to motors with no manual provisions and a procedures for removal of the motor in section II a of motor removal.
https://www.floridaautomatedshade.com/default.asp
Eric
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Thanks Eric
I read that section several times as well as the motor removal for Beaver coaches. The plan right now is to get the motor out and prepped for the new motor. See if there are any motor numbers on it to cross reference and then order a new motor. They cost to much for me to just order one blind. Want to match the motor up with the correct size, amps, and number of wires. So far Girard has been pretty guarded with their information.
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To update everyone, Per Girard " So an awning motor for that particular awning is the same as a G-2000 Awning" Part #97GA45M-50 Retail Cost $941.00
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Carl
I'd check to see if Florida awning can supply that motor at half the price.
https://www.floridaautomatedshade.com/default.asp
I'd give them a call at 1 866-518-1909
Eric
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Thanks Eric,
Does anyone know if a 97DM45M-50 would fit? I might be able to get that motor cheaper.
I did learn the coding is DM 45 M 40 50
Tubular Tube Material Rated Rotates
Motor Diameter Type Torque Speed
In case someone in the future is trying to cross reference a motor that will fit.
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Carl, Just so long you can verify it is a "stepping motor" and an amperage sensing motor. It "counts the turns" on the way out so it knows when to stop and senses increased amperage when closing so the motor shuts off just as the leading edge closes against the case. That is what those little alan key hex openings are for to fine tune the installation.
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Thanks Fred,
I am going to try to email FAS. Whoever I was talking to was sure it could be matched up, but needed more information. She said that a 45mm tube was about 1 3/4 inches. (1.772) and that she thought it should be bigger than that. I don't have mine out yet so can anyone advise if that is the correct size motor.
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Ok I ordered the 97DM45M-50 motor. I was told it was same motor as the 97GA45M-50 from a individual at Girard. It was about 2/3 the price as ordering it directly from Girard and is brand new also.
Hopefully all this information is correct. Should be here next Friday so hopefully I will get it installed soon after that.
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Sounds good let us know how you make out with the job
Eric
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Carl, shortly after purchasing our 1998 Marquis, we were at a Beaver rally on the side of Mt. Bachelor in Bend. My neighbor had the Girard service manager (then Major Pogue). I asked what was going on, and the owner said his awning had extended while driving down the highway! He stopped and had to dis-assemble the awning, putting the arms, etc., on the floor of the coach until he could get it repaired. The problem was the motor! His coach was also a 1998. I panicked and asked Major if my awning had that same motor, and he replied "yes". I asked if he could replace it, and he replied "yes". And, he did so there on the slopes of the mountain. So, for sure, those older awnings can certainly extend on their own. Also, there are more bolts to loosen to get the awning out far enough to get access to the motor. Yes, there are some just over the passenger seat, but also some inside a cabinet further back in the living room. Gotta take an access panel off to get to them. Whatever you do, be very careful not to let the arms release on you...they can be deadly!! Good luck!!
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Thanks Jerry
I have already located the right end and middle bolts. It looks like I only need to move the awning about 1/8 of a inch to get the screws out of the end plate, and then I should be able to slide the motor out after taking off the end bracket and unscrewing the 2 mounting bolts. Luckily for me my old motor is still working enough to move the awning out under its own power. Now I just have to wait for the motor, I have already received a notice that it will be later than scheduled due to a mechanical failure, whatever that means.
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To follow up on this post, I finally got the new motor in last night and everything is working as it should. I was able to loosen only the 4 nuts on the right/motor end of awning and get the awning to pull it out enough to get the old motor out.
When I pulled it out, it had obviously been replaced before as it was a SIMU - DMI550.12HU motor instead of a Girard. I found it for sale for just Under 375.00 on line. The date code on it was 05 so it was working longer than the original Girard was. While it was a few inches longer than the Girard it had been working and fit fine so if you need a replacement this might work fine for you. New From Girard it is $940.00 plus tax and shipping. I got one for Under 700.00 with tax and shipping and I am still happy with my decision, but would probably have gone the 375.00 route had I know it would fit.
When pulling the old motor out there is still some tension on the roller so we had to clamp it to the housing to keep the fabric taunt. Then it was out with the old motor in with the new, pull the new wires through with the old and wire it all up. The limit switches have to be set, but once you get within the limits it is easy to keep turning until you reach where you want it to stop in and out.
I still would not want to extend the awning to wait on a new motor after pulling the old one out, but the above motor worked in my MH for 16ish years if anyone needs a replacement for a B150 or a G2000.
I was nervous the the the Girard unit may not fit, but it did and hopefully I will not need to do this again anytime soon.