BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dale Malquist on February 01, 2019, 09:30:06 PM
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In members only this subject was address in January ‘18. However the solution was not posted.
The problem with my AGS is,apparently, that the coach was wired incorrectly. The AGS is wired to the chassis batteries instead of the House batteries. To correct this I need to abandon the current 12v feed and find a 12v source from the house batteries.
Anyone know if there is a 12v house battery in the electrical bay?
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Usually the front electric bay is powered from the House batteries. Regrading the Generator, it's starter should be connected to the Chassis batteries.
Does this diagram look like your setup.
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On our 2008 Contessa we had the same problem and it was a simple matter of swapping two wires. I am sure Steve Huber will have the solution when he gets on.
Mike
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Dale,
Apparently most/all 07s were wired that way. In the front electrical bay there are 3 large threaded terminal studs on the right edge of the large PC board. The top terminal is tied to the house batteries. The large terminal just below it is wired to the Chassis batteries and the bottom terminal down at the bottom right corner of the PCB is Ground. All are labeled on the PCB just below the terminal. Trace the battery wire from the AGS unit (believe it is 12 awg w/red insulation). Disconnect it from where it picks up chassis battery voltage (I don't remember exactly where) and wire it to the house battery terminal.
Steve
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On my 06 Patriot Thunder the problem with the gen not starting was the wire for the FR box was to small a gauge and too long. The gen would not start unless the Cat motor was running.
I replaced the 6 gauge wire from the FR box to the gen with single 0 welding cable with soldered on copper ends and it is connected to the chassis batteries and it is about 5' shorter than the original routing which was just plain stupid.
Unless I'm missing something if your house batteries are run down from dry camping how are they going to start the gen in it is connected to the house batteries?
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Lee,
The geni can use the chassis batteries for starting but the sense is on the house units as those are the one you use when dry camping etc.
Steve
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Instead of tearing apart the wire bundles to try and trace the #12 back to the chassis battery I think I will just abandon it and tape it off. the I will tap into the house battery circuit in the bay 2with a fused wire to the AGS board.
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Lee,
The geni can use the chassis batteries for starting but the sense is on the house units as those are the one you use when dry camping etc.
Steve
Steve, you are on spot, I miss read the post thinking it was a no start on the geni for low voltage to it which was the problem on my coach.
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Can’t figure out how to reply to individual replies so I would like to thank everyone that took the time to help.
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Also want to thank Steve & Lee. I’ll have to check the AGS cable as I’ve never had it work, so likely it is tied to the chassis batteries and not the house batteries.
My gen was also mis-wired as it was wired to start from the house batteries - really stupid hookup by whoever did it.
Don’t know if I’ll do what Lee did, but mine also is difficult to start unless Cat is running.
Jeff
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Jeff, I would bet that the cable to your geni is too small to carry the amps needed to crank the generator. I got tired of having to get up and go start the Cat just to start the generator in the mornings
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Jeff, Lee,
If you are not already, consider using the battery boost switch when starting the geni. It's a long way from the batteries if it is a front mount unit and can use all the amps it can get.
Steve
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Steve, I don't have a bit of problem starting the geni now since I rewired it with the proper gauge cable, I can start and stop the generator from the switch panel next to the bed, so in the morning I can just hit the switch to start charging up the batteries.
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Steve, Lee,
I’m not electrically savy and so trying to figure out the wire from the Magnum AGS wire, which is likely going to the chassis batteries, is a challenge. First Pi cture of my electrical bay is attached. I’m not sure if the 4 posts on the left are what Steve is referring to. The one 10 or 12 gauge wire from one post goes up to a bar with a number of wires going off of it.
Second picture is of the right side of bay showing a bar with a number of posts and wires (at the top).
Talking to a friend who has a tiffin Phaeton, he simply opened up his battery bay and there was a nice wire with an end on it saying “Magnum” !
Couldn’t be that easy.
Jeff
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Dale,
Your 07 Pat elec bay is totally different from my 07 Contessa. I'll look into it later today after I get my 87 F150 engine back together. Sorry.
Steve
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Steve,
No worries. I’ve not been a hurry to correct/diagnosis the problem so a few more days isn’t an issue.
Have fun putting the engine back together.
Jeff
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Jeff,
I can't find where the AGS sense wire is tied to the battery. However, the red wire on terminal 3 of the AGS box is connected to battery positive. Right now that is chassis battery+. I suspect one or 2 of the 4 red cables in your first photo is house battery+. You can ID it by turning the chassis battery disconnect switch off. First, check all 4 for voltage. Should have 12-13v on each. Then turn off the chassis battery disconnect switch (probably in rear electrical bay). Check the 4 cables again for voltage. If some have voltage and others don't (that had voltage before disconnecting the chassis batteries), the one(s) with voltage are house battery+. Cut the wire that goes to AGS terminal 3' but make sure it's long enough to reach a house battery cable terminal. Then add a lug to the AGS wire and connect it to the house battery+ terminal.
Steve
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Thanks Steve.
I’ll look at this week as I also have to see why my Magnum remote has a disappearing screen text - will be calling Magnum.
Jeff
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Jeff,
Power source for the four large terminals in your Front Run Box.
Top two terminals (with the buss bar) are switch power from the chassis battery bank.
Bottom driver side terminal is switched power (battery disconnect and ‘salesman’ switch) from the house battery bank.
Bottom passenger side terminal is always hot (not switched) from the house battery bank (powers CO and smoke detectors, radio memory, etc.).
Looking at the backside of the terminals, the top passenger side terminal should feed the generator starter circuit and slide room hydraulic pump.
The diagram that Mike posted above should be accurate for your coach.
Unless the ‘salesman’ switch is activated, terminal three on our AGS is hot, indicating that it is monitoring the house battery bank. Also, to add to the inconsistency, terminal three wire on ours is white. I do not know where the other end of the sense wire is tied into the system.
CORRECTION: The ‘salesman’ switch does not affect terminal three on our AGS, it always reads house battery voltage.
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Scott, Steve.
Thanks for the information.
Here’s a simple question:
My AGS module is located in the second to last PS bay which is only a few feet away from the battery bay. I’d simply have to run a wire from it, through the bay that has the aqua hot and then along the frame over/around the rear axles and into the battery box. Can I do this and connect to the house battery bank there vs. trying to run to or find the AGS wire in the electrical bay?
Jeff
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Jeff, All,
Keep in mind that if the AGS sense is currently wired to the chassis batteries, the generator 12v starting supply is wired to the house batteries. Moving the AGS to the house batteries, it will be trying to start the generator with depleted batteries. To remedy this you need to also move the genereator start supply source to the chassis batteries.
Steve
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Steve,
I had changed the system so the generator now starts from chassis batteries. It was wired to start from house, so as you state, it was difficult to start with depleted batteries.
The other issue is the AGS settings seem low to me as the highest ??? Setting I can have it set to is 12v, i.e. start when batteries are drawn down to 12v. All the other settings are less than 12v.
I believe the better Magnum Remote and AGS units allows for more exact and higher voltage start initiatiation.
Jeff
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On my 06 the AGS was wired incorrectly to the chassis batteries. After a lengthy look see with the help of Magnum techs and Monaco tech we were able to diagnose the problem and fix it. One way to tell is if the AGS starts off the temperature setting but not the battery setting then it is reading the wrong batteries. The solution for me was to run a new wire from the inverter to the AGS in the front bay. The Magnum tech was able to walk me through that pretty easily.
Steve
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I’ve never had it start either the temperature or the battery - just unlucky I guess. When I do a test using the button on the AGS remote, it does start.
My AGS module and the inverter are basically side by side, so maybe it can be a simple fix.
Jeff
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I'm hesitant to jump in here because what I did may not apply to your setup. Yours sounds very different than my setup. So I'm going to describe my really simple install and hope it helps or at least doesn't hurt much!
When I installed my Magnum AGS I placed it on the bay wall just forward of the wet bay on the driver's side in the same bay as the inverter. The only wire I had to run out of the bay was the "sense" wire to the generator hour meter. It tells the AGS that the genny is running. The other Wires ran directly from the inverter along with the control cable. That was it. The cables from the house batteries go directly to the inverter so I used those. The wires that went to the start function were already present from the old Xantrex inverter and I just ran them over to the AGS module. I understand that the starting issue was separate from what I had. Again if I'm not understanding I apologize for confusing the issue. Just seemed that there was a lot going on in your posts that I didn't have to do. Good luck.
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What Jerry should work, just make sure that you fuse it with a 5 amp fuse. Be careful though, I don't think the house disconnect kills the power to the inverter.
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I just added an article; "Auto Generator Start Fix for 2007-2009 Contessa & Monterey" in Common Problems (Technical tab) on the BAC Web page. https://beaveramb.org/acadp_listings/auto-generator-start-fix-for-2007-2009-contessa-monterey/
Steve
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Mine is a Contessa also.
I did rewire the age module so the house battery voltage is the source. Still does not work. Will contact manufacturer when I get my headlight issue resolved.