BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bob Disney on December 28, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
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Xantrex 2000
The 50 amp service allows all of the coach to work
The batteries charge as needed
When I unplug the coach from 50 amp service
On my RV the inverter seems to be working when you look at the screen above the door.
The light showing the inverter lights up green
The AGS work fine
The 12 volt system works as expected
All the circuit breakers above the toilet are in the on position and not tripped
Batteries are fully charged
The inverter does not give me the 110 power anywhere in the coach
On the dash screen the legs both show XXXXXXX
Any Ideas?
Heading for Quartzite (any recommended service techs/vendors as I would like to add another solar panel as well)
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Bob, Best thing is to find the manual for your inverter and read. I just replaced my Xantrex 2512 modified sine wave inverter (original equipment) with a new Xantrex sw2012 pure sine wave inverter. You have to install a new remote panel, and the thing is pretty complicated, if you don't have your manual in one hand while you push buttons on the remote panel with the other. I do know the inverter has to be in 'enable' mode in order to power the 120v loads in the coach. Not intuitive, but the manual will help. They are available on the Xantrex web site, maybe here under Coach Assist too.
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I have been through the manual and it doesn't give me the info I need
I should have said the I have enabled the inverter
I have tried light loads and heavier loads in case there was a minimum draw required, the screen does not allow me to set the low draw setting
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Call Xantrex customer service, you will get an actual tech who knows his stuff, very helpful.
1-800-670-0707
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Bob,
Your Xantrex 2012 inverter/charger should have 1 or 2 push button reset circuit breakers on the side of the unit. Also check the 30 amp circuit breaker in the bathroom.
I hope to see you in Quartzite. I am conducting the seminar on Friday and my main topic will be Inverter/converters and how to understand and manage them. Fred
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I reset the inverter a couple of times and checked the circuit breakers a few times as well
I may need to pull the covers off the breaker boxes and check the wiring from the 50 amp box to the 30 amp box
Could be as simple as a bad 30 amp breaker, it feels solid but who knows
I just don't want to break the inverter doing something I shouldn't
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Bob
It sounds to me like the inverters internal transfer switch sometimes called a passthrough relay is not doing its job .
If the charger works you must have power from the panel 30 amp breaker .
As Fred explained the two outputs on the inverter have pop style breakers on the side of the inverter ( they should be pushed in)
Those two breakers work on both shore power ( pass through) and inverter power so if you have power on either source the breakers are ok.
If the passthrough relay is defective or stuck (contacts welded together) you will have only one mode of operation.
They usually stick in the shore power mode (pass through) as this is the mode they spend most of there life in.
Sometimes when there stuck you can free them with a good thumb with a rubber hammer ( not likely recommend in the manual)
Hope this helps
Eric
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Bob,
If you haven't yet, try the inverter reset procedure shown in this thread. http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,8477.msg58912.html#msg58912
Steve
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The inverter reset procedure is from my 2005 PT owners manual and is for the original equipment Xantrex RV2512 modified sine wave inverter. The reset procedure is not in the original Xantrex manual. Not sure if the procedure applies to any other inverter.
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Bob, My new inverter is a Xantrex Freedom SW 2012 pure sine wave inverter. I had to replaced the original GS series remote panel with the new SCP remote panel to work with the new inverter. I also installed a new AGS; The old RV2012 inverter had the AGS included in the inverter but with the new inverter you have to install a new AGS module. I have yet to hook up the AGS.
This is a long way around to answer your quesion, but if you have 120v when plugged in to shore power but no 120v when NOT plugged into shore power, I still think your issue is with the programming of the inverter and or AGS. If your inverter uses the GS control panel or the SCP panel, I think its worth a call to Xantrex to help you figure it out. There are so many models of inverters, it gets difficult to figure out which is which.
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I should have stated the Generator does power the coach when running
also the AGS does start as programed
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The inverter takes 120v ac from either shore power or generator and the inverter acts to 'pass thru' this 120v 30a power to the loads that are fed from the inverter supplied breaker panel. The transfer switch is what selects shore power or generator power; the inverter doesn't 'know' if it has power from shore power or from the generator. Since all works with the gen on, I still believe your inverter is not set up correctly. Do you have the original equipment modified sine wave inverter with the RV7 GS remote panel, or has it been replaced with the newer, pure sine wave inverter with the SCP remote panel?
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I believe it the original
How do you tell the difference?
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See if your remote panel is labeled RC GS7; if so, you have an original modified sine wave inverter.
If I could post pictures, one would be worth a thousand......
You can look it up on the Xantrex website to see which inverter you have.
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If yours is the RC GS (forget the 7, my error) remote, the green light is solid when on shore power and starts blinking when shore power is disconnected and the inverter is drawing battery power to make 120v for the coach. May I ask as to how this trouble started? New (to you) coach? We all have a million questions when we first get a coach (I still have a thousand questions, easy!). Did some service to the inverter occur or other change to the electrical system? Has the inverter worked fine before? What changed?
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We purchased the coach the first of March. We have used it quite a bit. I just replaced the TVs, the satellite dish and the tuner
I haven't really missed the 110 when parked but would really appreciate when boon docking.
The inverter has not operated at 110 volts since we have owned it.
Where its parked now it is too close to the wall to access the inverter and there is a big snow drift right outside of the door.
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See if this manual is the one for your inverter.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/RV-Series-GS/RVSeries_2012-2512-3012-GS_Owners_Manual(975-0209-01-01_Rev-A).pdf
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There might not be a lot of difference but it's more likely you have the Xantrex RS2000 inverter which was standard in my 2005 Monterey. This manual is available on the BAC Coach Assist under 'Inverter Manuals'
Good luck and all the best in 2021... 🎉
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Not sure this applies to all inverter set ups, but my Marquis has an additional breaker box in the service bay, close to the inverter, which manages the inverter 110 circuits. It’s worth a check. Mine is a small breaker panel attached to the ceiling of the service bay, with 2 double breakers (4 circuits).
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RS200 seems right
Ive been through it a lot of time and it gives no explanation of my problem
I'm hoping there is a breaker that I have overlooked in the service bay as stated earlier in this thread.
Ill be looking for that
Fortunately I can live in the coach as is as we are about to take off for a while
Just hate to run the generator to watch TV
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The 2005 Monterrey owners manual (here on Coach Assist) says you have an RS2000 inverter with an SCP remote panel, and a separate AGS module located in the front run bay. I would start at pg 314 in the manual and check all set up parameters on the SCP, and the AGS. Take another look at the inverter itself to see if the 'inverter enable' button is active. From the wiring diagram (also in Coach Assist) I don't see any breakers other than those in the bathroom panel. When checking any breaker, make sure to first turn the breaker off, then on, as this will reset a tripped breaker. Between the owners manual, the wiring diagram and the Xantrex RS2000 manuals (and SCP and AGS as well) you should be able to find the issue.
Enjoy the warm weather at your destination!
Happy new year!
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Are there techs available at Quartzite that could diagnose and repair my inverter?
My friend who has been there a few times said there are people there but didn't really elaborate.
Id sure like to get this operational, and wouldn't mind adding a solar panel or two, but not necessary.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
This is such a nice coach its a shame to have anything/everything not working to its potential.
Bob
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Bob,
There is only 1 breaker (CB-8) on the Main AC breaker box that supplies AC to the inverter. Since you said that everything works when on shore & geni power, CB-8 is OK and the inverter transfer switch is working correctly (see Fig 1-1 in inverter op manual). It also indicates that the transfer switch in the inverter is OK since AC to the majority of the coach outlets is supplied via the inverter regardless of the AC source (see sheets 20-21 of the 2005 Monterey wiring diagrams in Coach Assist). So that indicates the inverter is not inverting for some reason. The most obvious reason would be a lack of DC voltage as that is the source that inverter relies on to generate AC. Have you verified that you have 12V at the input to the inverter? It comes from the house batteries via a large (200A?) fuse that is solely for the inverter so if it was blown, you wouldn’t see any change except no inverted AC (see sheet 44 in wiring diagrams). Also, make sure you have the inverter in Operating Mode.
There will be some inverter repair shops in Q. I’d check with the Beavers at the rally for recommendations.
Steve
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I'll look into the the fuse. That would be great if it was that simple
The display screen on the remote panel states that I have plenty of voltage well over 13volts.
I'll have to figure out where the fuse is as i haven't seen it yet, I thought I had looked everywhere but I guess not.
The Inverter states its enabled in the basement and on the display above the door.
I appreciate the help, Thanks
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The fuse is good if you are seeing voltage at your remote panel (above door). You checked that the inverter enable button is in the 'on' position at the inverter. Now you need to take your rs2012 manual in hand and check each parameter using the control (remote) panel above the door. I think you should have an 'inverter on' green LED on the remote panel, check for that.
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Yes all the indicators are green when I shut down the 50 amp service
the reset on the invert is only a little red button
I am concerned about one thing
I am not in safe mode, but I cant seem to pull that up on the display
I also assume that if I was in safe mode the green lights would not be on and I would not be able to be in enable mode
Does this make sense?
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That's where the manual comes in. I thought safe mode was used when you connect / disconnect remote or AGS panels from the Xantrex 'network. Your Beaver Monterrey manual has a section on the inverter as well.
If there was a problem with the inverter, my thought is you would get an error msg on the panel above the door (remote or SCP panel)
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I’ve always taken it that we were lucky when we got our new ‘06 Ventura IV, given my pitiful knowledge of diesel coaches in 2006. It had a CAT instead of a Cummins that seemed to have issues at the time, was just prior to the conversion to diesel particulate exhaust systems, was right when sulfur content was minimized in fuel, and was right after the Beaver/Monaco move from Xantrex to Magnum inverters. Xantrex models were having problems, but the company eventually resurrected its reputation.
If the manual resource that Steve references doesn’t lead to an answer, the Xantrex company may be of assistance if you contact them with your symptoms. You could still have one of the original unresolved-issue models that they can help with. And as Steve says, ultimate help should be in Quartzite.
Joel
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If the inverter is in SAFE mode, all outputs are disabled. It needs to be in OPERATE mode to function normally. Curious, why are you trying to get it in to SAFE mode??
Assuming you have 12v at the inverter, you either have a set up issue as noted by Bill or a faulty inverter. If you haven't yet, suggest you select Restore Defaults at the control panel (See pg 3-29 of the RS2000 manual). This will/should eliminate any concerns about a faulty program setup as it restores factory parameters. If still no joy, inverter is probably toast.
Steve
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I wasn't looking to put in safe mode, but I expected the ability to.
I had thought cycling through safe mode may possibly reset something.
I have all the literature that came with the coach and have been through it many times.
I have done as directed as far as holding the manual in one hand as running through the set up.
The darn thing just doesn't wanna play along.
Was the 200 amp fuse that was mentioned earlier the Bar fuse that is in the compartment above the batteries?
If not where else would it be?
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Bob,
The fuse is in the rear run box near the batteries. The diagram I references shows a dwg of the area. However, suggest you check for battery voltage coming into the inverter. Meter between the heavy gauge (3awg) black and red wires. That will validate the path back to the batteries is OK.
Have you reset the inverter back to Default settings as suggested?
Steve
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I have reset the inverter back to default settings a couple of times.
What should I be reading at my house batteries, how many volts?
The info I have seen shows 12.7 volts is optimum?
I suppose anything lower should be replaced ?
I can fix about anything I can see, electrics is a little bit, intangible for me
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12.7 is fully charged. Above 12v the inverter should be functional.
Steve
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If I require new batteries I would be getting the standard acid filled flooded batteries not AGM or Lithium or any of the other high end models
Is there any advantage to 6volt over the 12 volt as long as they are deep cell marine or golf cart batteries?
I understand that wiring them in require a different approach as far as in in tandem or in series as I would only want 12 volt
What I have now is all 6volt deep cell
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I would stick with a like-for-like replacement (6v for 6v) as the cost of making/buying new interconnecting cables for a 12v set up will easily offset any perceived benefit of 12v batteries.
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I just kicked on the salamander heater and checked voltage on the existing batteries and the result was a result was 12.71
There is a little sulfation on a couple posts so as soon as the shed warms a little I'll clean that off.
I think it may be a good time to equalize the batteries, its been awhile since last done
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Bob, 6v deep cycles carry more amp-hour capacity than 12v ones, so stick with 6v. Costco’s Interstate ones are about as readily available and good a deal as you’ll find. I was gonna go that route, but am tired of dealing with the metal corrosion around the battery tray and the melted strap-down buckles. As the batteries age they demand more charging and that makes more gassing of acidic, corrosive condensate.
After entertaining and researching a lithium notion for months, I’m switching house bats to AGM’s. Fullriver is well reviewed, but are Chinese built and I’m trying to minimize such purchases where I can. I’ll likely settle for the good rated US Battery brand, made here I believe by Johnson Controls. I don’t mind adding water to wet cells, and my original Interstates lasted 12 years with no obvious performance issue, but the corrosion has been a pain for too long. New wet cells wouldn’t be so bad for awhile, but eventually I’d be back to the same ol’ same ol’.
At 12.7v your current batteries seem fine if they’re holding it well. Be aware that at 12v they are half discharged, many coach devices don’t work there, and you don’t want to hang around there long; keep things charged. 13.4v float charge is topped up. And it probably goes without saying to use only distilled water in your wet cells. Check that your inverter doesn’t automatically run an equalization charge regularly.
Joel
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Joel,
Where do recommend I set the AGS? Presently I have it set at 11.9.
Do you think that is to low?
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That’s too low, Bob. Remember you’re at least half discharged at 12v. I know it’s a “deep cycle”, but the battery’s life is affected if it’s discharged that far very often, and many onboard devices don’t get optimum current at 12v. In contrast, Lithium batteries can handle 80% or more discharge and hold maximum performance.
I quit trying to set my AGS around year two, esp. after a BCS tech couldn’t get it right either. Too confusing. You think everything is set right and the genset starts when it shouldn’t or misbehaves other ways. If you do manage to get it working you need it no lower than 12v. Others here that actually have no issues programming theirs or how it works may input advice. But for me, it’s not difficult to start the genset manually as needed, esp. since I watch battery status like a hawk anyway. On the road we’re rarely far from the coach for extended periods, so the AGS isn’t that important to us. Others that for instance dry camp in hot weather and keep pets in the rig, might want the AC to start if they’re out exploring.
Joel
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Thanks for the tip.
Ill reset to 12V
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I replaced the house batteries since I was not the one who installed them and didn't have a true history of their service life.
This didn't really help with my issues.
They do seem to have a little better power than the ones I took out.
I also reset the AGS to 12.0 V
Running the furnace all night did not run them down far enough to start the generator.
Ill be looking for a inverter pro when we get to Quartzite