BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dennis Belfils on April 14, 2022, 11:00:18 PM
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Our Magnum MS2012 has completely failed. Tried soft & hard reset, but still totally dead. Was able to connect the 120vac to provide power to the 30amp inverter panel, but apparently the Automatic transfer switch talks to the inverter thru a network connection and the Aladdin ATS module, so now we can't get shore power. The only power available is thru the generator. Am I correct with my thought on the network and transfer switch? To make matters worse, there are no Magnum inverters to had.
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Dennis,
I am not clear on your statement " got 120 volts to the inverter panel" Please clarify. Do you have 120volts going to the input of the inverter/charger and "no 120volts" coming out? Fred
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The inverter gets its power from a 30amp breaker on the 50amp panel. From the inverter the 120vac goes to the 30amp panel. I disconnected the wires at the inverter and wire nutted them together. There are 3 data ports on the inverter. 1 for BTS, 1 for the remoter monitor & 1 for network. I can only assume where that goes as I have not found any info on it. I think it may have something to do with the Aladdin ATS module & therefore the ATS itself. Just not sure...
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Dennis,
Thanks. If you have by-passed the inverter/charger by connecting the input and output together, Then it sounds like the control pc board has failed internally. Keep in mind by doing this you have NO battery charger. You may want to put a stand alone shop charger on the house batteries. Fred
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Yes, the inverter is completely dead. My concern is if it talked to the transfer as we can't get the shore power contactor in it to work. The generator works fine, it's contactor pulls in. We are currently on our way to our summer rv park and I'm afraid I will have to bypass the transfer switch to use shore power till I can find/repair the inverter. I was hoping someone had an idea where and how the network communication works on the inverter....
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Dennis,
The inverter does not interface with the transfer switch, the network data port at the inverter is for the for the Magnum Auto-Gen-Start (AGS).
Does your coach have an Aladdin ATS Interface Module (ATSM) or an AC Interface Module (ACI), 2006 MY should have an ATSM.
What is the make and model of your transfer switch?
Scott
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It has an ATS module
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Surge Guard ATS model 40250
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Dennis,
If you coach has the original Surge Guard 40250 transfer switch, it is interface with the Aladdin ATSM for Aladdin data reporting only, does not control any functionality.
Do you not have ANY 120-vac in your coach when on shore power? Do the air conditioners work? What does your Aladdin Coach Electrical Status screen show?
Not a good idea to by-pass the transfer switch. I would remove the wire nuts at the inverter and double check the incoming voltage (from the main panel).
-Scott
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We have no shore power. The contactor (left one) in the ATS does not engage. The right contactor does on generator.
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I also show on the Aladdin display that only one leg of the 120 has any current thru it on generator
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Before you by-passed it, did you happen to check the inverter operation, not pass-through but the actual INVERT function?
I believe that the Magnum MS2012 is a single-in/single-out inverter, if that is so, it only uses L1 to power the inverter itself (charger function) and to pass-through. If the incoming L1 is dead your inverter will only function in the ‘INVERT’ mode (no pass-through, no charger).
I think that your Surge Guard is suspect, have you checked all the terminals inside of it? I can attach an image of the internals if you don’t already have one.
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Dennis,
What is the voltage from the shore cord on the contactors inside the surge guard? red to white and black to white?
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228 vac across red/black
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Check the inverter a few times. Nothing on the remote display, no blinking green lite. Tried a hard and soft reset, nothing. Even if it didn't have 120 going to it, wouldn't I get a status lite or something in the display?
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I just had mine repaired with two new boards for $935. An invasive varmint had “polluted” atop it, and I goofed and tried to reset it while plugged into power. If you can’t ferret this out, M&M RV Electronics told me they had 2 Magnum MS2012 rebuilds at $1100@. Fred also had helped me determine that the 300amp fuse had blown in the battery bay fuse compartment. It was the wrong fuse (from the factory!… should’ve been a slo-blo), but it didn’t save the boards.
Joel
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Dennis,
Yes, if the inverter has 12-vdc suppled to it, then you should see something at the remote or on the LEDs at the inverter.
As Fred suggested, you should check the voltage from RED to WHITE and BLACK to WHITE to make sure that you don’t have an open neutral.
If you have 120 on each leg, I would try the following:
Turn the shore power off, have someone turn it back on while you monitor the Aladdin Coach Electrical Status screen. What does the status line read? Are there any error messages? The Surge Guard 40250 has the capability to report status and errors to the Aladdin system.
The status sequence should be:
NO AC POWER PRESENT
POWER DELAY ACTIVE
SHORE POWER SELECTED or if gen set is running, GEN-SET POWER SELECTED
If you have CLEAN 228VAC shore power at the transfer switch and the shore power contactor is not engaging and you don’t see any error messages on the Aladdin screen, I’d be suspicious of the transfer switch. There is a troubleshooting guide for the Surge Guard 40250 in coach assist.
-Scott
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Dennis,
I asked you the voltage between the red and the neutral and the black and the neutral to confirm both hots and the integrity of the neutral. If you have shore power into the surge guard and the relay is not engaging, you have a bad transfer switch. Fred
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Sorry Fred, I thought I modified my response, but it didn't post. Anyhow I have 116 & 118vac Black to white, red to white. Apparently the pedestal 50amp at this park is possibly the problem. The transfer switch doesn't like it, keeps opening & closing the contactor. Switched over to 30 amp, OK. Inverter still out though
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Yes, as Fred and Scott and your own report suggest, it’s likely your 50amp post outlet has a bad Neutral. I’ve run into them a couple of times in RV parks. Management usually calls a local electrician to replace the outlet. Your inverter may have suffered, but as a first easy check take a voltmeter to the 300amp ceramic fuse in the battery bay fuse box. Put the black lead on a negative battery post and touch the red to either side of the fuse. If there’s nothing on the left side, the fuse is shot.
Joel
Top photo: new slo-blo T300 Magnum fuse in place.
Bottom photo: incorrect old factory fast-blo A3T300 fuse.
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New RV Park hooked up to 50amp for the last 3hrs, no problem. Still working on inverter. Appears our DC voltage is alittle different than what the schematic says it should be. I have 2 hots off the battery bank. One appears to go to one side of the 300amp fuse, & the other looks like it goes straight to the inverter. Will have to trace it out better when we get to Summer home. Thanx for all the input......
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Dennis, I saw two things that caused me to have a question. First did you check the breaker on the inverter? First time I had an inverter issue years ago I didn’t initially see the breaker on the side of the inverter because it’s mounted on the roof of the bay and the breaker was hidden by a lip on the mounting. It was on the left side bottom when looking from the front where the cables are. Second you mentioned that the inverter got power fro the main panel to the inverter sub panel. That’s not correct. It gets power from the main panel to the inverter. The 120 output of the inverter goes to the sub panel. Maybe I misunderstood. I just had a very similar problem, still do actually. I took the 120 output from the inverter and connected it to the 120 input to the inverter. That sent the 120 directly to the sub panel bypassing the inverter. My charger doesn’t work but I have a maintainer on the batteries so all is good while I wait on a board. Hope I didn’t confuse matters. Good luck.
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Yes it sounds like we have similar problems. I believe I stated that the inverter gets it's 120vac from the 50amp panel, thru a 30amp breaker, then thru the inverter that basically acts like a switch to use the power it gets or inverts via the batteries. From there it goes to the 30amp panel. I removed the 120 input/output wires at the inverter & wire nutted them together. I am now in the process of tracing the 12v wiring as our rig does not conform to the schematic. Schematic shows 1 wire from the +side of the battery bank to the 300amp fuse, then to the inverter. I have 2. The sequence of events have made this complicated. First battery failure, then inverter, then bad power at the park we arrived at, now even if I determine a bad inverter, none are to be had. Have ordered a battery maintainer to buy some time as you did. Thanx
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So Dennis, the two positive 12v cables you reference… you have two fastened to the inverter + post, or to a junction nearby?
Mine has a large junction just aside the inverter with 2 red cables coming to it and 1 short loop to the inverter post. I’m not sure where the second long cable goes. It makes no sense to bypass a protective fuse, so I don’t expect it to be a direct link to the battery; there must be another device involved that someone more knowledgeable than me can reveal.
Joel
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Dennis,Joel,
Look at pg 15 of the 2006 Monterey wiring diagrams; Main DC Distribution. It shows 1 3.0 awg wire coming off the house fuse. it then attaches to a terminal stud from which 2 3.0 awg wires lead to another terminal stud where it then drops to a single 3.0 awg wire to the inverter. I surmise the split to 2 wires is to prevent current loss over the lengthy run. I suspect that in your coach they simply brought the 2 wires from the first stud directly to the inverter.
Steve
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Yeah, I’ve noticed that odd map feature in the diagram before, Steve, but assumed I was too uneducated in diagrams to decipher it and it went no further. Thanks for the clarifying; sounds like a reasonable explanation, although on this short coach it’s not particularly far from battery bank to inverter. It may be just standard procedure install for all models.
😉Joel
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Thanx Steve, I agree with your assessment of the additional wiring due to distance. It's been abit too wet here where we are at to work outside for now. I can see the first terminal stud from the battery bay. It does seem to be odd that they put a 300amp fuse to protect the inverter and then bypass it. Will continue to trace it out when the weather breaks and let you know.