BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Eric Maclean Co-Admin on April 21, 2022, 01:13:14 PM
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Hi guys last fall on our trek to Florida for the winter I ran into a problem with leaves collecting between the rad and the intercooler.
I've never noticed before but in the fall there are a whole lot of leaves on the campground roads and It seems my coaches fan blows these off the ground and then sucks them back up either onto the face of the intercooler or right up between the rad and the intercooler.
My question is does any one else have this problem ?
I'm thinking that there must be some sort of blocking or shroud missing allowing air to be pulled between the rad and intercooler.
I know that on a dusty campground road the fan also kick up a lot of dust from the ground at low speeds which makes an embarrassing cloud of dust and of course make the back of the coach very dusty.
I'm going to check the air filter which was new before our trip south to see how much of that dust has collected in the 4000 mile trip.
I've always wondered if the fan was being driven on high all the time but can't tell for sure this system doesn't have a wax valve it has an electric switch mounted in the upper rad hose that controls a solenoid valve and I have tested that valve which sounds like it works , but of course the switching valve at the hydraulic motor may be stuck causing it to run on high all the time .
I really don't think so as the coach gets about 7 to 8 mpg at 55 miles a hour on flat ground and drops to 5 or 6 mpg at 65 or 70 miles an hour.or climbing mountain.
My temperature stays in the 185 to 196 range except when climbing mountain where it might occasionally hit 200 to 205 which I believe is not too bad .
Which for a 3126 pushing 40 feet of motorhome weighing 30,000. Lbs and a 3500 lb car in tow would be reasonable.
I'm looking to build some sort of screen to stop the leaves from getting in to the rad area has anyone had this problem and found a solution?
Thanks in advance
Eric
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Eric, on our 97 Patriot Camden I put some plastic fence material around the shroud opening to stop rocks from hitting the fan. We were taking multiple trips to Alaska and wanted to protect the radiator fan. However mud build up on the plastic covering caused the engine to overheat.
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Bryan
Where did you put the plastic around the fan shroud and fan or between the rad and intercooler ?
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Eric, around the shroud and fan. The material was like a plastic chicken wire. We never experienced the leaf problem you experienced in the 8 years and 160k miles we put on our Patriot .
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Bryan
I know it's been a while since you had the 97 but can you remember if there was some sore of cover under the radiator stack or a blocker between the rad and intercooler.
The reason I ask is I believe the rad has been replaced with a larger capacity , it still fits into the original case and hanger but the inlet and outlets are larger than the feed pipes and hoses which required a special hose at the rad to get from the smaller pipes to the rad necks.
There's also a dent in the muffler just ahead of the rad stack leading me to believe that the coach had run over some road debris causing rad damage and rad replacement. ( So I'm not sure if this is the original rad or whether all the parts are there.
Thanks for responding
Eric
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Eric ,there was a cover on the bottom of the radiator and intercooler as I recall . We had Cat pull the intercooler to clean the radiator and it was obviously covered on the bottom
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Eric,
You may well have a replacement radiator. My 3126 will run between 190 and 198 on flatish ground. In up and down hills it will increase to the 200 to 210ish range. This is with driving at around 60 to 62 mph and locking the trans in 5th. Any higher temp and I slow down until there is not a problem. I would love to run a little cooler. I actually lock in the coolant temp on the computer,Intella something, to make sure I do not run to hot. I don't have a problem with leaves as the shroud covers pretty much everything.
At 33, actually 34'2" I average 8.1 to 9 pulling my CRV. Up to 11 mpg without. Up a 8% grade for about 14 miles I did get a little hot, my fault for not realizing how steep it was and for how long.
I have started using coil cleaner with good results to keep the coach running cooler. My shroud covers both the upper and lower radiator. If you need any pic's or anything let me know.
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Carl
I surmise your coach is shorter than my 40 footer and probably quite a bit lighter than mine which should mean better fuel mileage.
I just worked out my fuel mileage for our last trip from our house here in Ontario Canada to Key West Florida and back a total of 4305.48 miles which took 603.97 us gallons and worked out to a fuel average of 7.128 mpg.
I consider that to be not bad if you take into consideration I run an average of 63 to 73 miles an hour and of course over a couple of mountains in Pennsylvania at 45 miles an hour at 5 mpg.
If you could get me a couple of pictures of the bottom of the rad stack showing the enclosure if it has one
And another to see how deep the fan is located in the fan shroud.
That would be great
Thanks for all your help
Eric
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Eric I have attached some photos from under the MH. Sorry the Pictures are not great, but not much access under there. The total depth of the shroud at the bottom is just over 13 inches. I was having a little trouble finding the set back to the Radiator without getting a little to greasy, but I can try again later if you need.
The shroud covers the Radiator and Fan 360 degrees around. I have actually thought about cutting it in half and adding mending plates for better access.
I think you are getting great mileage considering your length and the speeds you drive. Not the I never get into the 70's, but try to keep it around 62. I also wish I could get mine to run as cool as yours!
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Carl
It would appear at first glance that your setup is quite different than mine.
It looks like that large channel iron with the slotted holes is below the fan and that the fan motor mounts to the bracket attached to those s!otter ho?e making the fan depth into the shroud adjustable.
On my coach there are two large plates mounted to the frame which extend out and hang the whole rad stack the fan motor is mounted directly to a channel iron which runs horizontally between those large plates and I don't see any adjustment to allow a depth change for the fan into the shroud. I wish it did as I don't think the fan is not in the shroud far enough causing the dust cloud when idling around a campground road.
I can't seem to find a way to post pictures here or I'd put some up.
Eric
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Rad hanger showing fan motor mount
This picture was taken from the engine bay looking down .
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This picture was taken from below shows how much of the fan is exposed and also the gap between the rad and intercooler
Note the blue sections in both pictures is the structure which the fan motor and radiator hang from
Eric
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Carl
I just realized what I was looking at your coach has a rear rad setup while mine is a side rad .
Your fan is probably belt drive and mounted to the engine .
Where as mine is driven by a hydraulic motor
No wonder they looked different LOL
thanks for the pictures anyway
Your friend
Eric
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Eric mine is indeed a rear radiator so apples and oranges. I would love to have the side radiator, but my coach was hard enough to find as it was and it fits in most places we want to go with enough room for the two of us and 2 dogs.
Sorry I couldn't help. I will say that I don't kick up dust or leave debris all over the toad, but servicing it is a PIA.
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Carl
I know the rear radiator system is harder for regular maintenance but it is a simpler system which eliminates the need for the large hydraulic pump and associated hydraulic motor.
Interestingly I believe Jeff Johnson has a 1996 Patriot Savannah with a side radiator.
Eric
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Eric,
They did make Patriot Savannah's with side radiators. On my coach the vents are there at the left rear with only the transmission cooler behind them. I don't know what all my coach has been through in its life so it may have had some modifications. According to Dave Atherton my engine was a replacement one so he can't tell me much about it. I know that most things were left stock, but I do have a extra pair of shocks up front. Fortunately the wiring harness seems to have been unmolested. I guess that it is possible the replacement engine had a radiator change. Mine is reported to be the 330 hp version, but who knows. I know that it is a much peppier coach when it is not towing, and the temps are lower too.
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Carl
Without the side radiator and accompanying fan how do they move air through the transmission cooler?
Eric
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It has its own electric fan.
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I take it the A/C condenser is there as well?
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May have been, but the AC system was disconnected when I bought the coach and I haven't felt the need fix everything when I can run the generator and the overhead AC units. I may get to it one day, but it one of my less pressing wants.