BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dick Simonis on February 16, 2012, 09:48:51 PM
-
Just a curiosity question>>>>Is it possible/practical to have the brake lights go on when the Jake activates. On the surface it seems like a good idea. Has anyone tried this???
Thanks
Dick
-
My 05 Monterey brake lights are "ON" when the exhaust brake is "ON". I don't know if I like this feature because it gives everyone behind me a false indication that I am stopping which is not always the case. I could be going down a 4 mile grade with my brake lights on the entire time when I am simply going down slowly. Not sure I understand the reasoning completely....
-
Thats the way my 2002 Thunder operates now. I'm told it is one of the parameters set to the Cat engine and can be turned on or off. The next time I'm at a Cat dealer I'm going to have it turned off. I don't like the idea of it being on with the jake. My quess is the the previous owner of your coach didn't like it either. Marty
-
My understanding, although I haven't see the reference, is that DoT mandates brake light activation with any braking system engaged to include engine brakes. This is also why you should not use the brake pedal switch on your TOAD to acticate the TOAD's brake lights. A TOADs brake lights must mimic the lights of the vehicle towing it.
-
So I guess I'm in violation because my toad's brake lights are activated by my ReadyBrake when the Jake is engaged. The deceleration of the MH is sufficient to trigger the surge brakes. I guess I should go to my local CAT service facility to get things reset so the Jake will turn on the coach's brake lights.
-
Hmmm, now i'm wondering if mine does that but I've never been behind it when the jake is on. Personally, I like the idea that those behind me know I'm braking whether is the jake or coach brakes. Beside, this thing slows down like I threw out an anchor with the Jake on high.
Guess I need to have Pat ride in the toad for awhile and she can report back.
-
I think it would be extremely dangerous (CO2) and illegal to have someone ride in a towed car. If you drive at night you can see the brake light reflection on the windshield of the toad .
Steve J
-
I think it would be extremely dangerous (CO2) and illegal to have someone ride in a towed car. If you drive at night you can see the brake light reflection on the windshield of the toad .
Steve J
Steve, I was making a joke.
-
Gil, The DOT does not mandate brake lights with a Jake or a PacBrake. It is the manufacturer that specs the parameters. I drove trucks for a living and never had one that the brake lights came on with the Jake. I also worked for one of the major truck manufacturers as a test driver. That is where I found out it can be changed or turned on or off by the engine manufacturer (CAT in my case). The end buyer or user usually sets the specs for a vehicles parameters, in our case it was Beaver that set the specs. Marty
-
Marty,
Thanks for setting the record straight. As I said, I never saw the reference.
It does make sense that, given the option, that this feature would be enabled.
Thanks again,
-
We have a 2008 Contessa and someone following us said our lights did not come on when we applied the exhaust brake. We followed their 2008 Contessa and noted that their coach brake lights came on, but not the toad when they applied the exhaust brake. Asked an ex Monaco tech and he said it just depended on who wired it and how on the date of mfg. don't know if this means anything.
Mike Humble
-
My lights come on with the exhaust brake and would rather it didn't.....just my .02!!
-
You can put a diode in the line going to the brake lights from the jake to kill the lights. The brakes on a tow dolly work off the brake light activation, so on long downhill grades the brakes would be on on the tow dolly, making them extremely HOT. This was my remedy.
-
Randy,
I'm curious why you wouldn't want to signal to those behind you that your coach is being braked, even though it's the engine brake doing it rather than your foot?
Just curious,
Gil
My lights come on with the exhaust brake and would rather it didn't.....just my .02!!
-
My Jake brake activates the coach LED brake lights which are hooked up to the TOAD brake lights. All these lights are LED This means you can brake downhill using the jake brake for long periods without worrying about overheating the lights. I like the fact that the jake Brake activates the brake lights......it is a very visible warning to a vehicle behind that you are using some braking effort even if you are not actually slowing down.
-
When I bought my 98 Contessa last year, the PO told me about the add on controller he had put in, that activates the brake lights when the engine Brake is on. I added a brake controller for the tow dolly, and it shows the amount of braking being done by the TD. The numbers range a lot higher when I am using the service brakes, but do put some braking on the TD when I am using just the EB. The TD brakes show no signs of being over used. As far as I can tell, it ain't broke, so I am not interested in changing it.
-
I too am a former truck driver, still drive part time in the summer. None of the trucks I ever drove had lights to indicate the Jake was on.
I've explained my line of thought on other forums and seemed like I was talking to a wall,but here goes one more time.
On turbo-charged, electronically controlled diesel engines, there is no back pressure as in gas engines. When we go to fully closed throttle, there is no hold back power from the engine,as we are used to in our cars. This fact is why Jacobs developed the Jake. The Jake system fills that need. The old trucker rule," Decend a hill in the same gear you climbed it" is no longer a factor. If you shift down a truck that has no Jake, you just over rev the engine that much sooner, because the engine doesn't hold you back any more.
Therefore, to have brake lights on during "Closed throttle"engine operation, (ie. deceleration) is the same IMHO, to having brake lights on just because you came off the gas in your car.
Therefore I see it as a false warning, and as Marty said, I don't want to have my brake lights on, during deceleration, then not have a change in warning signal ,when I have to apply the brakes for a full stop. I have probably wasted all my time writing this, but I know it makes sense to Marty.
-
Phil, I'm trying hard to understand your reasoning. While I understand the technical operation of the Jake brake I'm having difficulty understanding the downside of alerting following drivers that I'm braking regradless of whether it the Jake or service brake.
Granted I don't have a lot of experience with the jake but I have found that the bloody thing really puts out an anchor under the right circumstances...much more so than merely coasting and downshifting with a gas engine. In fact the deceleration with the Jake is often time much more viguous than if I were applying the service brake.
I'm not disagreeing with you...just trying to understand the downside.
-
[quote author=]Randy,
I'm curious why you wouldn't want to signal to those behind you that your coach is being braked, even though it's the engine brake doing it rather than your foot?
Just curious,
Gil
Hey Gil,
I guess it the times when I'm on a long downhill and I leave the EB on just to keep my speed in check. Other than that, I'm ok with it.
[/quote]
-
so the guy free wheeling down the hill can run right into you eh?
-
Phil,
Just an FYI, my engine brake does provide back pressure and does slow the coach down much more than it would if I just took my foot of the accelerator without the engine brake. My engine is electronically controlled, so not all electronically controlled engines must be the same. On mine, it has a variable vane turbo and when the engine brake is active it changes the pitch of these vanes enough to create back pressure. I can't say how if compares to a Jake, but I do not I would want those following me to know I'm slowing down enough that they may have too as well.
-
Well stated Phil. I can't count how many times I've used my Jake with the transmission in the correct gear going down a long hill and the Jake is keeping me right at the posted speed limit. At these times brake lights do not need to be on. They are holding a particular speed. Marty
-
Well stated Phil. I can't count how many times I've used my Jake with the transmission in the correct gear going down a long hill and the Jake is keeping me right at the posted speed limit. At these times brake lights do not need to be on. They are holding a particular speed. Marty
True, but if you were using the coach brakes the lights would be on. Whats the differance and why is it a problem if they're on with the jake. That's the part I don't understand.
-
No one has mentioned the flasher light when going down hill. Don't know whether it is requirement or just a courteous feature to let those behind know that you are moving slowly.
Any discussion/comments ??
-
There is no right or wrong answer to this thread. My coach is set-up so that the brake lights are not activated with the Jake Brake. That is the way that I prefer it to function since I normally use it to hold the coach at a selected speed on downhill grades (usually the speed limit on straight roads and a safe speed on curvy roads). Another driver may prefer the brake lights on in the same circumstance, however they will both be right since this boils down to personal preference and how you feel the safest.
Gerald
-
No one has mentioned the flasher light when going down hill. Don't know whether it is requirement or just a courteous feature to let those behind know that you are moving slowly.
Any discussion/comments ??
Seems to me that, by law, the flashers need to be flashing on semi trucks when the vehicle speed is 45mph and below. Don't know if that applies to all commercial vehicles.
I believe there are 18 wheeler folks on here that could speak to that.
-
I posted a reply here earlier, but then went in and deleted it after reading comments from opposing views that made sense. Basically, Gerald reflected my resulting point of view, to each his own, though I retained my inclination that the EB and brake lamps should coincide. I could see both sides of the issue. After more thought about the time I experienced severe brake fade in a small pickup on a 10+ mile downgrade, I realized the result is my tendency to keep my coach at or below posted truck speed when on steep or curvy inclines. I certainly don't do 60+ mph on them.
The Speedy Gonzales approaching behind me deserves to know that I'm not at, and possibly nowhere near, his speed. As Marty indicated, if you are doing it right, the EB should hold the coach at what you personally deem a safe speed for the nature of the road, without your touching, and unneccesarily wearing, the fade-susceptible service brake. But counter to Marty's conclusion, given the above circumstance, that speed may be well below Speedy's, and illuminated brake lights add a measure of warning that I don't think should be ignored. If circumstances are severe enough, I reckon flashers are in order, but I really think they're more useful to fully-loaded commercial semis.
I believe my lamps come on when the EB engages, and I guess my philosophy is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Just my 2 cents-
Joel
-
In response to Joel's post about Speedy (I mean no disrespect Joel, just a comment) if I'm going up hill, down hill or cruising on flat ground, if Speedy is speeding and I'm doing the speed limit, it is not my responsibility to warn him with brake lights or anything else. As to Phils comment on flashers, in my 30 years of driving semis I have never heard of a law in any state that requires (not saying there are not any) 4-way flashers be on when slowly going up hills. In my experience and my own practice, if I were going 25% slower or more than the posted speed limit, I would have my 4-ways on to warn traffic coming up behind me. I think Gerald summed it up correctly with no wrong or right answer, it's personal preference with what we ourselves feel comfortable with. Marty