BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: George Morlan on August 17, 2012, 02:18:35 PM
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I find that when the coach sits at a park for several days, I have to use the battery boost to start. There are other indications of a gradual loss of voltage in the chassis batteries. For example, my power shades in the front window lose their limits, something MCD says occurs when there is a gradual loss of voltage. Any thoughts on what an electrically challenged guy can do?
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George, didn't see what year/model you have but when mine did the same thng I found the echo charger was bad. New one from Magnum was supplied by BCS and all is now well. 10 minute job to replace.
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Some of the Beavers like ours without a way to recharge the chassis batteries. We found out on our 1997 Patriot the hard way after 11 days running the generator after hurricane Charlie. We installed an Echo Charger
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx
Install was very simple.
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Sounds like your Xantrex charged for your chassis batteries is not working. Should see a little green light on ceiling over batts. if it is. Henry
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George,
It wasn't clear if you are plugged in or if this is something new and different from previous coach performance while parked. The answer changes based on if you have an echo charger or a similar system and whether or not your coach is plugged into an electrical service.
Later Ed
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.... Any thoughts on what an electrically challenged guy can do?
I think you are suggesting you would prefer an electrician to do the work. Short term, consider going to any auto parts store, even Wal-Mart, and buying a basic battery charger and long enough cord to reach the power pole.
The other posts have been correct in that something should be charging all your batteries. Many use a combination of relays call the "BIRD" and "Big Boy". (I'm really not joking!) Others have the 'Echo Chargers'. Either way, I have not run into a Beaver that didn't charge all the batteries.
Bill
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George,
I am assuming that the coach has been plugged in and charging the house batteries when this happens, and if so, it sounds like there is a malfunction in the "Bird System" or bad chassis batteries on your Contessa. Since I do not think that you carry any test equipment with you, it will probably be best to wait until the Bean Blossom rally and get Roy to repair it there or I will fix it in New York.
Gerald
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Thanks for the replies. I was remiss in not specifying that my coach is a 2007 Contessa which relies on the BIRD to keep both sets of batteries charged. I've come to the conclusion that the BIRD is malfunctioning, and hope that there is someone at Bean Blossom who knows more than I do about how to confirm this.
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Geprge:
I had a similar problem. Turned out my echo charger was past its best before date. I solved it by buying a small "smart" charger, ($50) and plugging it in beside the bed, running the cord down to the batteries and attaching it directly to the chassis batteries. Now when I open the battery bay I see the red light on if it is charging and the green if fully charged. A couple of zap straps keep it attached to some of the wiring, so out of the way and out of trouble.
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Well that previous post got away before I even got started. My big boy/BIRD does NOT charge my chassis batteries either. Either it is defective or needs tweaking. One question however I have is that I seldom have the inverter ON.
Does the inverter have to be on for the BIRD to work??
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The Inverter is only required to be set to "on" when you need AC but are not plugged in to shore power. Otherwise the unit is just a charger and the "on" position doesn't affect it.
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Leah,
If you are plugged into shore power, the inverter has to be charging the house batteries before the "Bird System" can charge the chassis batteries. If you turn the battery charging function of the inverter off, the "Bird System" can not charge the chassis batteries.
Gerald
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I have had two occasions where the chassis batteries didn't charge when plugged into shore power. On the first instance, the gnound wire to the BIRD had come adrift and it was not working. On the second, a mouse had chewed thru the control wire from the information center to the inverter/charger and disabled it. I also have a 2007 Contessa and it should keep all of your batteries hot.
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....... One question however I have is that I seldom have the inverter ON.....
Leah,
Why would you leave it off? One of the wondrous features of a Beaver is that so many things work well even when you are not plugged in. Mine is always on.
Bill
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Well Bill
If I am plugged into shore power, I don't need it and if the generator is running, I don't need it.
Therefore, most of the time it is off. Don't see any need to have it on so just haven't. When I need it I do turn it on. Hope that answers your question.
Leah
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Gerald
As always thank you for your response.
When I am plugged into shore power my house batteries stay charged, therefore I am assuming that the charge part is working fine, but the inverter part is off, if I am understanding what I think I know!
But the chassis batteries have NEVER stayed charged. I have added a small charger just attached to the chassis batteries so that when I am connect to shore power they are trickle charged. I did that because they kept going dead. Either I have not understood things well ( very possible) or the
Big Boy isn't working.
I have an appointment at BCS in Bend Sept 10 and it is on my list you better believe. I want to get to the "bottom" of this once and for all.
I hope some day I have the opportunity to meet you as you always seem to look out for me. I'll give you a big HUG (assuming it's ok with your wife of course).
Thanks again
Leah
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Well Bill
If I am plugged into shore power, I don't need it and if the generator is running, I don't need it.
Therefore, most of the time it is off. Don't see any need to have it on so just haven't. When I need it I do turn it on. Hope that answers your question.
Leah
Leah,
That makes sense.
I leave mine on. Four primary lights, the ice maker, my Verizon MyFi, two computer chargers and two phone chargers all circuits that come through the inverter. If I leave it on, it is one less thing I have to remember to turn on on driving days when I want those things to work.
The other reason I leave it on is for winter storage. If the 30amp power source goes out in a storm the dehumidifier that I leave plugged in will draw down the batteries in about 30 minutes. That will trigger the genset to start. In turn, the genset will provide power to the hydrohot to keep it from freezing.
My inverter has not been off for 8+ years! Perhaps its a bad habit!
Bill
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Bill:
Every inverter I have seen draws power if turned on, and does so even when no loads are drawing from the inverter. Some may be more efficient than others, but the ones I have measured (not on my Beaver yet) draw lots of power unloaded. My Xantres MS2000 on my boat for example, draws ~8 amps before any loads are added. Leave that on overnight and the battery voltage drops so far that one needs to run the genset for a while. Use AC accessories as well and more generator time is required. Forget it for a day or two and you get dead batteries.
That is why I keep my inverter set to off most of the time.
Not an issue if you are always either plugged in or running the engine.
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Keith,
I look for opportunities to run the generator, so I don't mind the inverter draw.
We were dry camping for several days last week. Our Xantrex controller has a gauge. If I go to bed with it at 100% full, leave the inverter on and run ceiling fan all night, it will be at about 90% in the morning. My batteries are 5 years old. The controller's "Fuel Gauge Cutout" is set so that 11.4 volts, under load, is assumed to be dead. I program the generator to autostart at 60%, if I forget so start it myself. So, in reality I think I've never had the house batteries below about a 30% discharge.
When our motorhome was new I got to go to some factory sponsored rallies where Onan and others put on seminars. A key message from Onan was that we are using a commercial duty genset that is built to run often and hard. The leading cause of failure and repair in motorhomes comes from lack of frequent use. As hard as I try to use it frequently, I only have about 400 hours on ours.
In a forum elsewhere on the net about generators there was a thread about genset failures. One guy had 20,000 hours of Onan use without repair. The people that rarely used theirs, had the most failures.
Bill
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This is interesting especially when one reads the other current thread about generator failing to start where Gerald posted:
"On the '06 Patriot, Monaco used the house batteries to start the generator. So if the house batteries are discharged to about 11.5V or less with normal usage, the generator will not start unless you start the engine to charge them back up or hold the boost switch down while starting it. The solution is to rewire the generator starter to the chassis batteries, or never run the house batteries below 11.9 to 12 volts."
I have been operating somewhat as Bill mentioned:
" The controller's "Fuel Gauge Cutout" is set so that 11.4 volts, under load, is assumed to be dead. I program the generator to autostart at 60%, if I forget so start it myself. So, in reality I think I've never had the house batteries below about a 30% discharge."
by assuming that deep-cycle batteries can be taken down to 11.5 or so. I too have my genset set to start at 60%.
I am reading the two statements by Gerald and Bill and I don't think they are contradictory, however will the genset in the 06 not start if it was programmed to do so? Also, Gerald, doesn't the boost switch use the house batteries to assist the chassis batteries?
I gather that in pre-'06 units the genset is started by the chassis batteries? So if chassis batteries are weak then use the boost to assist starting of the engine and I assume the genset? But in '06+ units if the house batteries are weak, then the genset can't start unless the coach engine is started to charge them up (which is hard on the alternator), assuming the engine starts.
Maybe I making it more confusing that it really is.
Jeff
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Jeff,
If you are operating your house batteries in the same manner that Bill outlined, your batteries will not be discharged below 11.9V. This will help you receive longer battery life, as well as no problems in starting the generator if it starts with the house batteries instead of the chassis batteries.
You said that you thought that the boost switch used the house batteries to help the chassis batteries. Since the boost switch is used to tie both battery banks together, the starting help can go either direction. If the chassis batteries are discharged and the house batteries are not, the boost switch will assist the chassis batteries, however if the house batteries are discharged and the chassis batteries are not, the boost switch will assist the house batteries.
Gerald
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Thanks Gerald for your insight.
I didn't realize the boost feature worked both ways - good to know.
Jeff
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The "boost" switch is really just a parallel switch that ties both batteries together.