BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dick Simonis on November 25, 2012, 04:33:22 AM
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On our way home from Parker, we stopped in Goodyear for a couple of days to visit some friends and play a bit of golf. Got back to the coach after good golf and great dinner to a MH with no power and a burnt smell inside. After 3 hours I still can't figure out exactly what's going on but here are the symptoms.
The 50A breaker on the pedestal was tripped and a reset did no good. Shore power doesn't feed anything.
The inverter will supply power to all the correct outlets.
All the GFI's for the galley were tripped
The genny will power up the A/C units, and HW heater but will not supply power to any outlets that the inverter will power...like the galley. The Genny will power the other outlets, typically on the passenger side. AC lights will work on inverter but not on genny.
I did find a power strip in the forward overhead compartments that appears to be the source of the burnt odor as it's pretty much destroyed and also melted some other wires up there. No doubt this is a problem and we're fortunate that a fire didn't result....could have come back to cinders.
Fortunately, I have a small battery charger and an extension cord which is plugged into the pedestal to keep the batteries up.
We may or may not head home tomorrow. Our friends told us of a good mobile service they used for an inverter problem and it might be easier to have it worked on here rather than home.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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A few years ago I had a similar problem with power in the 2004 Thunder we had. We also lost power to many of our outlets and was unable to use land power. We were on our way back to the Northwest and stopped at Monaco to have them determine what the problem was. After some investigation, they determined that it was a faulty power supply I was using for my computer. I was told at the time by the tech. that they find this type of problem fairly often and he advised owners not to use them. Fortunately our inverter was undamaged.
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We had a similar problem in June of 2011. You might want to take a look at http://forum.bacrallies.com/m-1306544185/s-5/highlight-power+transfer+relay/#num5 good luck with the issue
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Thanks for the replies. A bit more investigation reveals the I did indeed have a fire in the overhead cabinet next to the TV. The power strip is destroyed in the area near the switch. Wires and cables underneath are melted and fuzed into a mess to the point where the power strip is going to be tough to remove. Fortunately the space is small and thanks to beaver, well sealed, so flames extinguished themselves with all the smoke. Plus I see smoke damage just outside the door.
At this point, I'm reluctant to attempt supplied AC power to the coach until I have a better handle on what happened. When daylight comes I'll take a look at the pedestal and see if it actually has power on all legs but I'm beginning to lean in the direction that the power strip problem is a result of something bigger. Tripping a 50A circuit with a shorted power strip just is,t very reasonable and the coach 50 A breaker was not.
More going on here than meets the eye but I'm starting to lean towards a voltage supply problem....power surge????
Oh well, I managed to get the coffee pot working this morning using the extension cord so all is kinda OK. Pat's been a trooper but I haven't yet told her that I'm thinking about staying here as there seems to be a better supply of good service centers than in Tucson. I'm very concerned about all the wiring running behind the front cabinets and if than can be accessed without dropping said cabinets.....that would be major.
All in all, it could have been worse had the fire actually ignited the cabinets.
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Dick,
Based on what you've found, I'd be very reluctant to apply AC voltage as you don't know what other wires may have melted insulation and be close to causing a short while not yet tripping a breaker/fuse. Monday AM, you might want to call Tom at Massey's Diesel Service ((602) 233-1700). He's located on the west side of Phoenix (1417 S 59th Ave). Masseys RV repair used to be a Beaver and Country Coach service center and is very knowledgeable re these units. If he can't do it, he'll know who to go to. Feel free to use my name as a reference if you haven't been there before as I have him do all the service I can't do on my own. They get busy but Tom will usually get you in in an emergency. Tom is there by 7Am.
Good Luck! Steve
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Dick,
I do not think that anything external to your coach caused this failure. A dead short that pulls many amps of current will trip the fastest breaker in the chain given the current of all the breakers have been exceeded. I would have expected the lowest value 15 or 20 amp breaker to react more quickly but it is not always the case. If an external catastrophic high voltage spike caused your shorting fail it would have affected many more items in your coach and within the campground.
It is important before you take everything that is burned out that, you try and sort out what was the primary source of the electrical failure and what was secondary heat and fire damage. My suspicion is that you had a quick and catastophic short failure of the power strip. If it was plastic rather than metal it can then become the souce of the flame. Metal power strips are safer (but hard to find) given ithey will contain the heat from an internal short. Many power strips have a 15 amp resetable breaker built in and you may want that feature in your replacement power strip. There is also a relay involved in that area that kills he TV power with the ignition which could be a shorting source. Whatever the source it was clear that better than 50amps was pulled, at least momentarily, so the source of the short should hopefully be evident.
If the power strip was metal and you had powered AC wiring that went underneath it, that is also a potential shorting source if the wire insulation was compromised in some way.
I would change the lower current breaker that did not trip when it could have just as a precaution. I believe it is in the overhead area of the storage bay that is fed by the inverter. Once changed verify by turnng it on and off that it actualy controls the outlet that the power strip was plugged into and that you do not have some wiring error from the factory leaving an outlet unprotected. I am an advocate of flipping each AC breaker on and off once a year given they are mechanical devices and corrosion can be an issue. I have seen breakers that have frozen up and cannot be moved and therefor offer no protection. Just a good precaution for all of us.
So glad you are safe, like you say this could have been so much worse. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Ed, thanks for the feedback. Although the actual cause is still a bit mystifying it does appear the branch breaker did trip. On this coach, there are 2 20A breakers on the inverter, the one for the galley did trip the other did not. All the GFI's, 2 in the galley and one for the microwave also tripped.
It's puzzling how a short in a power strip could cause such massive damage including some (as of yet) unknown damage on the 50 A shore power circuit that render that whole circuit dead. Maybe a problem in the transfer switch also...but on on the shore power side as the it does transfer source to the genny.
Can't figure out why the AC lighting works on inverter but not on Genny either. As far as I can figure there are no branch breakers for distribution to lights or outlets other than the two on the inverter. Plus, one shouldn't think the branch circuits care if the power is from SP or Gen set but that does appear to be the case.
With some circuits dead on the genny but not on the inverter also raises questions.
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I did a bit of research for 14AWG wire regarding the fusing current that would be required to develop a "hot wire fusing condition". It is 166amps for 10 seconds, 600amps for 1 second, 3300amps for 32ms. The tripping time rating on a 50 Amp breaker at 10X the current rating of 500 amps is about .01 seconds. While you would like none of this going on the specs would say that a hot wire condition should have been well protected. As the shorted area heated the resistance would have gone up until the breaker opened. The long and short of this is that the damage should be contained to the shorted area in the cabinet not taking into account any local damage by fire.
The breakers that get turned on and off a lot tend to have their current capacity diminished over time becoming more sensitive. They were really never mean't to be a switch but are used like that in campgrounds whenever we connect to them. This probably worked in your favor and may explaing why it acted first ....but don't forget to change the one on your coach that you expected to trip first anyway. Hope this helps set your mind a bit at ease.
Later Ed
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I think the short was a short and not a slight overcurrent condition that we think of kicking a breaker. There is a difference between 500 amps kicking a breaker and 25 amps which everything in the circuit can tolerate. The GFIs tripping would be normal given those protective devices are looking for stray current going where it is not expected to and you certainly had that here. Probably a short to ground and these are the fastest acting devices. The transfer switch would also have to handle the current overload and those are spring loaded surface contacts that I expect could have some damage. You can inspect those with the cover off and if slight residue and smooth contact surface is evident they can be burnished a bit with a very fine burnishing tool or file just enough to have the surfaces clean. They may be fine.
On my transfer switch the non powered default are the genny contacts. The relays are held closed by the AC from shore power when in normal shore power mode. The relays are released by the tranfer switch circuitry about 60 seconds after starting the genny if AC is provided by shore power. I think that is how mine works. If you can hear a buzzing from your transfer switch box when shore power is on what you are hearing is the vibration generated noise from the coils being powered with the shore AC which is holding them on against the spring tension.
There is also a tranfer switch in the inverter that is relay based that switches from shore to inverter so that may be a problem. All the coach AC lighting I believe utilizes the transfer switch within the inverter. Everying on that small bay breaker box is in series with the inverter based transfer switch. There may be a resetable AC button breaker on the inverter also that I would reset. It may only be involved with the internal inverter generated AC output but I am not sure of that.
This is the sequence I would try and bring things back up in. Unplug the coach from shore power. Cycle all the AC breakers on and off and reset all the GFI outlets in the coach. Cycle the breaker on the pedestal and measure for 120V on each leg. If that is O.K. then proceed, if not there is probably another campground breaker that has tripped that needs to be reset. Once that is set proceed. I would at this point opt to use a pigtail and power the next steps through a 30 amp circuit on the pedestal. WIth the 20 amp kitchen breaker that tripped turned off in the bay, and the main rear coach breaker off, plug the coach back in and if all is well then turn on the main rear breaker in your rear panel. If anything trips then the fault has to be found within the coach before you can proceed. If all is well measure outlets on all the circuits and see if normal voltage is present. If it is then start the genny and see if it does a normal transfer. If you cannot get AC lighting to work as a pass through the inverter check to see if AC is being fed into the inverter and then not coming out. The main transfer switch that handles the shore power and genny transfer, powers the whole coach so if both sides of the main power panel has AC voltage that transfer switch is working at least as a pass through. As far as powering the last circuit up, that depends on an inspection as to how the wiring in the cabinet stands. If you could find an outlet on that circuit that comes before the problem one and disconnect the output 120v line that feeds the TV cabinet outlet then you could safely power up most of that circuit. All of this is activity that requires exposed panels or covers being removed where AC wiring is exposed and measurements are being taken requires some level of knowledge and safe practices. Only do what you are comfortable with. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Ed, thanks for all the time you have taken to help walk me through this incident and I believe you may have nailed it. While I still have not been able to remove the power strip in question....a bit hard to get to and it's still fused to the other wire in the bundle under it. I have been reluctant to dig into it too far for fear of causing additional damage tried to separate all the wires.
You comments about the transfer switch in the inverter does explain why some circuits don't work on the genny as those are the ones that "pass through" the inverter. Also, there is no power at the 50A pedestal receptacle and I will have the RV park check that this morning.
There is still a linger concern that there may be other damage caused by the large inrush current caused by the short. It's certainly possible that other connections could have been compromised acting like a fusible link. The inverter lights indicate that the charge is waiting for power so something is awry with the feed to that feature.
We decided to stay put in the RV park and I'm going to try to get a mobile service out today and look at the situation. I've also decided to file an insurance claim seeing as how there was a fire involved. Should be covered under out policy and it looks like a fair amount of rewiring will be necessary in the overhead compartments.
With the aid of three extension cords we're living quite well and even had TV and sat reception last night and coffee this morning.
Going forward, I won't put a replacement power strip in the same location but instead change the AC outlet in the TV compartment with a 4-gang receptacle and just plug every in directly. My new TV installation on a swing arm makes that area easily accessible. I definitely don't need a repeat performance.
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Dick,
Good luck with this and contacts should be the weak link here if power does not get restored. Contactors in the transfer switch, contacts in the inverter, contacts in the breakers that were directly involved with the current surge. The wire itself should have handled the overload given the typical 50amp breaker characteristics.
It is always a help to us all to post how this turns out and anything that you learn in regards to what failed and what had to be repaired or replaced to get back online. Hopefully you will only have smooth sailing from here on out....
Later Ed
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I see Camping World has Surge Protectors on sale - 50 amp regularly $450 now $292.50, 30 amp regularly $330 now $214.50. A couple questions:
1: Are these worth anything? Perhaps their weight in gold?
2: Do I need both the 50 amp and 30 amp? Or can I use the 50 amp on a 30 amp receptacle and be protected (?)... with an adaptor in front, of course.
3. I have heard people like to steal these things when you leave your coach unattended. How large a problem is this?
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I see Camping World has Surge Protectors on sale - 50 amp regularly $450 now $292.50, 30 amp regularly $330 now $214.50. A couple questions:
1: Are these worth anything? Perhaps their weight in gold?
2: Do I need both the 50 amp and 30 amp? Or can I use the 50 amp on a 30 amp receptacle and be protected (?)... with an adaptor in front, of course.
3. I have heard people like to steal these things when you leave your coach unattended. How large a problem is this?
Yes, they are definitely worth it, but make sure you buy something that is more than just a surge suppressor. Many folks on this forum use devices made by SurgeGuard and Progressive that will disconnect the MH from shore power if voltage is too high or too low or the pedestal is miswired.
A 50A unit will protect you irrespective of whether you are connected to 50A, 30A or 15A.
As for theft, we have a hardwired unit; it's not just a theft issue but simply one less thing to do when we hookup. We had had a plug in unit on a previous MH and found we often didn't bother to get it out and use it. Of course, it can't protect you if you don't use it. ;D
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OK, Update as the RV tech just left.
First, Ed nailed the cause the power strip was absolute toast. I should take a pic and post it but it was totally blown out and melted just behind the switch.
The transfer switch isn't passing shore power and needs to be replaced.
The inverter isn't passing power through the transfer circuit nor is it charging. Needs to be replaced.
A CD shuttler for the Alpine dash stereo was overheated and needs to be replaced.
A bunch of wires and coax need to be sorted through, identified, and replaced/repaired.
Refrig wouldn't work on AC but that turned out to be the fuse. Odd, since that is on a totally separate circuit.
The tech bypassed the transfer switch and inverter so we now have full power to the coach on shore power only.
After the tech left I hooked up power to the TV and etc by plugging everything into the 2 outlets in the TV cabinet and all is well but just found out the Bose system in inoperative. Crap!!! What we don't know is if some of the melted wires are for the Bose but it is on the same circuit as the other destroyed stuff. It turns on and switches modes but no sound so I don't know what's going on here. CD, Am/Fm, nothing. Of course it could be the amp or the wires as I have not idea how the control head talks to the amp or where the wires run.
Tomorrow I should have the complete estimate as well as the time for parts, repairs, and etc. Meanwhile we're still in lovely Goodyear.
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Some Pics:
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I guess after keeping up wih this thread and seeing all the problems Mr. Simonis has, I feel better about buying a surge guard. I went ahead and bought the larger 50 amp unit which is on sale at Camping World... $326.48, including the 50 amp surge guard, a locking hasp, and freight. I quickly checked for comparable pricing on both Amazon and Ebay - Camping World was a bit cheaper.
I am getting the model 34750 Surge Guard manufactured by TRC out of Clearwater, FL. Now all I need to get is a combination lock for the locking hasp... and perhaps some memory pills. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/portable-surge-guards-with-lcd-display/11198
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what you are describing with the failed power transfer relay and inverter power transfer switch is pretty much what we saw in 2011. Based on your description you may be able to have the inverter repaired rather than purchasing a new unit. the replacement AC board was $359 +$150 labor in 2011 at an authorized Xantrex repair facility. Did my own removal and reinstall of the inverter, It is actually a fairly simple process. As an alternative take a look at the Xantrex inverter/ converter wiring the Xantrex power transfer relay circuitry is designed to support two separate 30 amp inputs and feed two separate AC output legs. In our 2000 Patriot Thunder coach there is only one input and one output leg used. you might consider rrewiring input and output to circuit 2. No mater which way you go with this you might want to consider installing a 50a surge protector like a trc34560 on the shore power side of the power transfer relay to protect against external issues in the future. As to the Bose system the built invisible box is fused on the back side (2 or 3 amp auto fuse)
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While a full feature surge guard is a good thing and I think a wise investment it would not have helped Dick and Pat's problem at all and probably would have been something else needing replacement here. Those units protect the electronics in the coach from the campground electrical grid supplying harmful low voltage or high voltage conditions to the coach. What happend in this case was a massive short within the the coach in the area below the switch in the power strip that resulted in a fire. These strips are cheaply made and my guess is the switch fell apart and direct shorted the hot line to neutral of ground. That caused a massive current overload until the breaker tripped and also raised the voltage on the neutral line or ground to some extent causing the frig fuse and ground faults to trip or fail along with other electronics.
Dick I do not know if you have started your engine or not but you should also verify that the computers that support the engine and transmission are functioning. The ground to the AC lines are also tied to the frame of the coach I believe. They are pretty robust units but best not to get another surprise. If you can start the coach and shift the transmission while in place without error codes then all is well there.
If I had one of these strips that looked just like this one in my cabinet I would throw it away. If you can eliminate it do so. If you must have a power strip Tripp is reputable and makes four and six or more outlet versions that are all metal and at least if something fails the heat is contained. This one has its own breaker built in. It would have saved the fire and more than likely tripped its own breaker before the current level of the shorting became a major failure issue plus it has spike supression. These cheap switches and plastic strips should be outlawed but you know how that goes...
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR6ULTRA-Isobar-Protector/dp/B0000513US/ref=pd_bxgy_pc_img_z
Check your strips. Dick it looks like there is a brand on that one, will you let us all know? Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Ed, a blow up of Dick's photo shows the brand name Belkin between the switch and the cord. Most surge protectors advertise a guarantee for replacement of damaged property resulting from failure. Likely it is easier to submit an insurance claim than fight Belkin, though.
Joel
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Joel,
Thanks for looking closer and sharing the Belkin label.
Later Ed
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Ed, is there a durability factor difference between a 'surge protector' and a 'power strip'.
Glenda 8)
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Glenda,
The quality of the components used in each and the quality of the design dictate the durability issues and price can be somewhat of a guide but not always.
All things being equal, if you had two power strips with the same components and design but one had added surge suppression components and one did not, the one without surge supression is actually safer. That seems confusing but it is because you added another component and that component has a failure rate. It gets stressed by spikes coming in the AC line and eventually it can fail and then it becomes an added component failure rate that is factored in as part of the overall power strip failure rate. That is not meant to have you shy away from surpression, given it has a job, and surpression helps more expensive items survive. Here you would accept the slightly higher power strip failure rate for the much lower TV failure rate that it is being protected due to the vastly different cost.
If you need a power strip I would still look for one with an internal circuit breaker, usually a push button type, and the fact that all the components are encased in metal. That is the best you can do if you need to use one of these and that design is really quite safe. If you did not want to spend that much money I would think that the plastic units with a dual male plug that turns into 6 outlet unit that plug into the outlet directly are a better bet. They are very simple design involving no switch, cord, or internal wire connections just a formed internal metal set of connections. That is a quality of design enhancement. Still not completely loving the plastic but these seem quite durable.
I did a little web search on fires from power strips and when they occur and there was a source photo included it always seemed to be what looked like one of the cheaper plastic types, I'm guessing non surpressor type, and the fire seems to be around the switch area like in this case. It may be cheap contacts within the switch that have increased resistance over time and eventually caused heating and a fire....a good guess. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Bit of an update.
This has been a most interesting problem. It seems that pretty much everything that was running at the time of the incident has been affected if some fashion. Even those not on the same circuit. For example, the refer had a blown fuse on the AC side and we thought that was the only problem but, after running it for awhile, I find it's not cooling very well and had to shift back to propane. Even the alarm clock in the bedroom is dead.
The Bose system is also interesting. Zone 2 which feeds the bedroom Base Wave Radio works OK but Zone 1 is completely dead. It looks like the music center may be OK except the display has gotten so dim it almost can not be seen. Also of interest is that when I called Bose I finally got routed to a tech in their invisible amp department and found out that these are custom installation designed for Beaver by Bose. They also had the original specs on file. Replacing the system is essentially not an option but they will factory refurbish both the sound center and amp for ~$300.00. That's quite a bargain in my mind.
We have decided it's not reasonable for us to continue sitting in an RV in Goodyear until this situation is resolved so we're packing up and taking the coach to their facility today and just head on home in the Jeep. The coach will be in a site with power so I can come up periodically and see what's going on and have a place to stay....about a 2 hour drive from home.
They should have the estimate into the insurance carrier in the next day or so. I'm looking at replacing the inverter with a Magnum vs. the Xantrex if the cost is close enough that the insurance doesn't balk....just have to wait and see. I've got my fingers crossed that the repair doesn't take too long and should find out more today when we get to the shop.
Oh, there will be NO MORE POWER STRIPS ON this Beaver.
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"Oh, there will be NO MORE POWER STRIPS ON this Beaver."
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A VERY GOOD IDEA.
A lotta of this stuff is made in CHINA and would never trust it.
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I don't know about no more power strips, but I do know that the one in our overhead behind all the A/V components has a plastic case, and may indeed be the same Belkin as Dick's. Reason enough I reckon to order the Tripp Lite Ultra 6 that Ed linked to, and for all the reasons he alluded to. Ahhh, but first I have to get the wherewithall to reregister at our new BAC site so I can benefit the club via Amazon. :-/
Dave, your coach may already have surge protection from the factory, if it is like ours and I'm not sure I see the need for a second unit here. Check the box where your power cord enters the coach; that is your transfer switch, and if it says Surge Guard on it, its probably protecting you; as far as I know, all their transfer switches protect against power post issues. But as Ed says, that's just against faulty park power, not faulty coach components. http://surgeguard.com/40250.html
Joel
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The Bose system is also interesting. Zone 2 which feeds the bedroom Base Wave Radio works OK but Zone 1 is completely dead. It looks like the music center may be OK except the display has gotten so dim it almost can not be seen. Also of interest is that when I called Bose I finally got routed to a tech in their invisible amp department and found out that these are custom installation designed for Beaver by Bose. They also had the original specs on file. Replacing the system is essentially not an option but they will factory refurbish both the sound center and amp for ~$300.00. That's quite a bargain in my mind.
FWIW I got a similar quote from Bose when my system failed in the same manner right after we took possession of the coach and I didn't think $300 was much of a bargain for a 12-yr-old analog sound system regardless of what brand it was. Remember, regardless of what satellite receiver or Blu-ray player you are using, the Bose is only capable of delivering Dolby 2.1 analog sound. For roughly the same amount of money we replaced the entire sound system with one that interfaced digitally with the receiver and other HDMI devices and which is capable of delivering Dolby 5.1 sound. Do as you wish, but if my insurance company paid me $300 I'd use it to cover most of the cost of a modern audio/video system.
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FWIW I got a similar quote from Bose when my system failed in the same manner right after we took possession of the coach and I didn't think $300 was much of a bargain for a 12-yr-old analog sound system regardless of what brand it was. Remember, regardless of what satellite receiver or Blu-ray player you are using, the Bose is only capable of delivering Dolby 2.1 analog sound. For roughly the same amount of money we replaced the entire sound system with one that interfaced digitally with the receiver and other HDMI devices and which is capable of delivering Dolby 5.1 sound. Do as you wish, but if my insurance company paid me $300 I'd use it to cover most of the cost of a modern audio/video system.
Since I know virtually nothing about sound systems except that we like the sound of the Bose, I have no idea what I'd replace it with. The two zones may or may not be an issue with something else but I just don't know. Plus rewiring the whole coach for sound is mind-boggling.
Interestingly, the estimator at the repair facility mentioned that most insurance companies balk at repairing/refurbishing anything. Something to do with liability if it wasn't repaired properly. If they wish to install a brand new Bose system that is their call but the cost will be astronomcal as that seems to entail all new speakers and everything. She will submit it both ways and we'll see what happens.
Eliminating the power strip will be easy now that the TV is on a swing arm. The are two outlets in that cabinet and the power cords for the sat reciever and sat dish are long enough to reach...might have to bore a coupld of 1" hole in the cabinet sidewalls would be all. The DVD player cord won't quite reach but a short extension cord would solve that issue.
FYI: this is the repair facitly. So far I'm very impressed with them
http://www.rvmastertechs.com/
Hope this is done before Quartzite.
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Dick,
I just removed the power strip in my overhead cabinets. Found that it also was a Belkin. So, if you need a replacement, I have an experienced unit ready to go. I'll even deliver it.! Let me know and I'll bring it to Quartzsite.
Steve :)
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Dick,
I just removed the power strip in my overhead cabinets. Found that it also was a Belkin. So, if you need a replacement, I have an experienced unit ready to go. I'll even deliver it.! Let me know and I'll bring it to Quartzsite.
Steve :)
Thanks, I appreciate the offer but think I will pass. Coach is still in the shop and just got the insurance co. approval of the claim yesterday. Most everything is readily availble but the Bose repair will take 3 weeks or so and making it to Quartzite is becoming problamatic.
One bright side is that I may upgrade the inverter to a Magnum pure sine wave for only 3-400 dollars extra. Gotta think about this for a bit. I do not like the rep that Zantrex has lately. The old Freedom line were great high quality units but Xantrex seem to have let quality and customer service go downhill.
Bought a surge quard and i'm taking it up there Monday to be installed and probably finally replacing my 10yo batteriers.
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Dick,
Replacing a defective modified sine wave Zantrex with a pure sine wave Magnum for only 3 to 400 dollars is a no brainer. I would consider a modified sine wave Magnum as a replacement instead of a Zantrex for that money a good deal, because the Magnum is that much better quality. I would never buy a new Zantrex inverter now, because of the poor quality of the unit.
Gerald
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Put in a Magnum about 2-and-a-half years ago. Haven't looked back. Nice to select the amount of incoming amps so my house wiring doesn't blow.
Mike
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I just got the numbers today and YES!!!! I'm getting the pure sine Magnum for the price of the remote....about $200.00. Parts on the way but the Bose is the issue for getting me out of here. Guess I'll just be patient.
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Just had the Bose hidden amp rebuilt. Turn around was 2 weeks.
Mike