BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bill Jourdain on January 21, 2013, 03:56:26 PM
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Does anyone have any idea where, if at all, the engine block heater switch is located on a 2002 Monterey Seacliff? My Aqua Hot does not have the engine block heater option installed (the switch panel has a blank where the switch would be). I have looked high and low and cannot find any other source for an engine block heater in this coach.
Thanks.
Bill
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I do not think you have a seperate block heater, except the engine pre-heat funcition when you first turn on the key. In some installations, the Hydro-Hot or Aqua-Hot will circulate hot water to the engine if it is in diesel mode and the circulation pump is running.
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Except for using it to add a load during Onan exercise sessions, I have never used the electric block heater. At Quartzite I asked how cold it had to be to make starting difficult if I forgot to turn it on.
Gerald's answer suggested temperatures so cold that I would want to head south!
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The other day I had to start ours when it was 15F....started OK, but ran a bit rough for a few seconds, until I got the rpm's up then smoothed right out. I wonder just how cold it can be and still start.
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So, Bill, where is the switch to actuate your electric engine-block heater? I would assume it to be either near the pilot's seat or on the 110 breaker box. I had not even considered the presence of an electric engine-block heater. I have the engine block heater associated with the Aqua Hot Diesel Burner. Perhaps I should put an electric engine-block heater on my list to find, eh? lol
Anyway... I thought Mr. Jourdain was asking about a diesel burner option to heat his engine for which he has not found a switch. You, Bill, interpreted his question as asking about an electric block heater. And Mr. Welhart seems to be commenting about glow plugs. How do we get to the bottom of this... and answer all the possible interpretations of his question?
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If it is an Aqua Hot/Hydro Hot engine heater, there will be a third switch on the control panel that actuates an optional, extra and dedicated stir (or circulation) pump. My coach does not have that.
I'm not sure mine has glow plugs. It might. It does have a "heating grid" that preheats the air just prior to engine start. It is activated when the key is first turned. There is a light on the dash that glows "Wait to Start" for a few moments while the grid does it's job.
The electric block heater on mine is activated by switch on the dash next to the Genset switch. It says "Engine Block Heat". That switch activates a relay somewhere that energizes the heater in the block. I don't know where that heater is. It only draws 8 amps, so if I don't turn it on before bedtime it is useless for morning departures.
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As Bill Sprague indicates, hydronic pre-heat operates entirely different than a block heater, and misuse of terminology can confuse them. It's conceivable that Bill Jourdain has neither function, though I thought block heaters were routinely factory installed.
I can't speak to his 2002 Seacliff, but our '06 model has the optional hydronic preheat as well as the block heater, which is activated from a 12 volt switch among the driver's switch group, marked as Bill S. says. That relays to a 110v., 1800 watt block heating device that has a cord that plugs into a 20 amp GFCI outlet. The outlet may be powered by park power or the generator, but not off inverter function - like a refrigerator, it would quickly run down batteries. Forgive me, I don't recall precisely where my cord plugs into such an outlet, likely a protected engine compartment wall someplace; I've never used it since the HydroHot preheat does the job well, and is probably more efficient because it actually circulates warmed coolant throughout the engine.
A block heater would be used in subzero temps and might be left on overnight to have an effect, whereas hydronic preheat works in an hour or two, depending on ambient temps. and how warm you like the engine to get before starting; I prefer 100 degrees F as my owners manual suggests, though as Dick proffered, cold starts are certainly plausible if necessary. The engine's electronic Cold Mode limits power and idle to 800 RPM until engine coolant reaches 82 degrees.
If you can't find a dash switch, Bill, you might check the engine compartment for a heavy duty 110v. 15 amp power cord somewhere. It may not be actually plugged in, but rather coiled and tied out of the way, ready to plug into its dedicated coach outlet or an extension cord to an outside power source. Also look for a 15 amp breaker marked for the Block Heater on your 50 amp Main panel box.
Joel
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Hi Bill:
My previous coach used a Cummins 8.3 and others I have seen had the electric block heater switch located on the wall in the bedroom. My current "ride" 05 Patriot (Cat C13) does not have an electric block heater and I don't believe it has a glow plug either. You may not have either but I am not familiar with the other Cat engines. I do have the engine pre-heat on my Aquahot which works well but does take a bit of time. I have been able to start the engine in temps around 10 F range but it does not like it but then again I don't much care for those emps either.
Good luck,
Dwight Wilson
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Thanks for all of the replies. To answer the many questions:
1. My Hydro Hot does not have this option. As I said in the OP in this thread, the Hydro Hot switch plate for the engine heater has a "slug" or blank plate there - in other words, no switch.
2. I have looked everywhere inside the coach and do not have a switch on the dash or anywhere else with an indication that it is for an engine block heater, nor have I found a breaker with this info.
3. I have searched each outside compartment and have found no 110V cord of any kind.
So, I would guess that my coach is not equiped with an engine block heater, and the glow plug is all I have.
Thanks again for the replies.
Bill
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Bill,
If it so below 20 degrees my concern would be fuel gelling or waxing. I have seen many truckers use a product called heet.
If it gets real cold the only thing that will help is to let it run all night just above idle. The engine will return 80% of the fuel back to the tank to keep it warm enough to run.
The other option is to throw an electric blanket on the motor and keep it as warm as possible. Seen it done and it works most of the time.
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Tom,
Why not just at idle? Not enough heat generated or?
Steve
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Bill,
Let me be a little more specific. I have a 2002 Patriot and it has the same engine that you have in your coach. I also, do not have a switch in the Hydro-hot control panel for the engine pre-heater. However, with my Hydro-hot in diesel mode, and the system in the normal mode of operation, it heats the engine by circulation of same coolant that heats the water in the Hydro-Hot while you are driving down the road. Therefore, you do not need a switch in the Hydro-Hot control panel. Additionally, as pointed out in the other posts, our engine has a automatic pre-heater in the intake air chamber that heats the air under cold weather conditions. I have never had any problem starting my engine (without Hydro-Hot pre-heating) at temps well into the teens. I hope this helps...
Karl
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Actually it is more efficient about 200 rpms above idol and it defeats the shutdown timer on the engine.
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Karl -
Thanks for the clarification. I'll check that out the next time I am at the coach.
Bill
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You Beavers With 3126 Cat Engines don't have block heaters. One can be had at Cat
If you have a preheat lite when you turn on the key Turn on the key ,when the lite goes out turn off the key then turn it
back on tel the lite goes out again do this 3 or 4 times . Do this be fore you try to start the engine, this will help get you started . Above 6000 ft you may need a block heater, A block heater is always great in cold climates. you have to be
plugged into AC or start your Gen. Your gen. may need lighter oil in it
Roy Mueller
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However, with my Hydro-hot in diesel mode, and the system in the normal mode of operation, it heats the engine by circulation of same coolant that heats the water in the Hydro-Hot while you are driving down the road. Therefore, you do not need a switch in the Hydro-Hot control panel.
Karl
That's news to me. The optional Engine Preheat switch activates a dedicated pump that pushes engine coolant between the hydronic unit and the engine when the engine isn't running to circulate coolant itself.
Joel
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Tom, Roy,
Thx for the info!
Steve
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Karl,
Maybe I misunderstood your post, regarding preheating. If so, disregard this.
As I understand the system, only the Hydro Hot 200 series has a preheat pump that when activated, (w/burner on) circulates engine coolant through the Hydro Hot to assist in warming the engine. This is an independent coolant loop in the Hydro Hot and not connected to the coolant loops that run to your heat exchangers to heat the coach interior.
The Hydro Hot units w/o a pre heat pump (e.g. model 500) also have an engine coolant loop coming into the unit. However, this is not for preheating as the only way of circulating the coolant in this circuit is by running the engine. Again, this is separate from the coach heat exchanger coolant circuit. Pre heating on these is accomplished by heating the intake air. By running the engine coolant to the Hydro Hot in these models, you can have hot water and some heat when driving w/o having the diesel burner on.
That is my understanding.
Steve
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Steve,
I agree completely with your statement. However, my experience is that after running the Hydro-Hot all night in diesel mode in very cold outside conditions, upon starting in the morning the engine pre-heat cycle is very short and the engine temp comes up very quickly compared with the same situation not having the Hydro-Hot in operation.
Perhaps there is some heat exchange via the Hydro-Hot coolant and the engine coolant without the engine running. Not exactly sure about the mechanics of this heat exchange process, but the engine coolant and the Hydro-Hot coolant must be connected somewhere...
Maybe someone smarter than myself can help us out with understanding how this may be the case.
Karl