BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Gary Winzenburger on March 17, 2013, 07:49:20 PM
-
We just became the proud owners of a 1997 Beaver Marquis. Love it so far, but would like to know if there's anything we can do to get rid of the milky looking finish on the wood work, including the chair frames. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-
Gary, be sure you don't have the factory Pickled White finish. That's not the factory name, but it adequately describes the color. If you do, there's nothing you can do to change it short of stripping all the woodwork.
We like the color in our '95 Pat. It gives the interior a wide open airy feel.
HTH
Andy
-
I don't think this was a finish option, but we can live with it if it can't be removed easily. We are new to RV'ing, so we can't wait to get it on the road.
-
Gary,
If you have areas where what looks like a clear finish has become milky looking and it is not even and consistent it probably is permanent without refinishing. My understanding is when the finishing systems were migrating from laquer or enamel based finshes to water based finishes, due to EPA regulations, the water based technology was not fully developed. For several years water based finishes were used that over time could reabsorb water and the result would be to have a milky appearance. The technology improved and this problem in later years seems to be resolved.
This company in their question and answer section talks about water stains in the finsh being removed by a wood restorer that gets absorbed into the finish. May be worth a try but I have not heard of someone being able to resolve this issue.
http://www.howardproducts.com/questions.php
Later Ed
-
Our interior dark cherry wood finish has some isolated milky looking areas. We were told to get a product referred to as "Oz Oil." We got a bottle and have been using it. It seems to help remove the milkiness a little more each time we apply it.
-
Thanks for the product suggestions. I'll be going to Home Depot to look for Howard and Oz Oil. David, can you get it there? Thanks
-
We got the Oz Oil through Amazon in a plastic, pint container. http://www.amazon.com/Behlen-OZ-Cream-Polish/dp/B0012H173O/ref=pd_bxgy_hg_img_z
$8.85 plus freight. But it says to use sparingly. I put a little on a soft cloth and it goes a long way.
-
Gary,
I had that problem in my 2000 Marquis, and according to the boys at Beaver Coach in Bend OR. it was a problem with the sealer they were using at the time. One thing that I can tell you is that I refinished the dining table in that unit, and whatever they used on those cabinets has to be similar to whatever they used to stop the space shuttle from burning upon re-entry. I have never even seen any type of automotive finish so tough; I used every type of aircraft stripper I could find and nothing will touch that stuff. I ended up belt sanding it off with 60 grit, all the way up to 180, re-staining, and re-coating with 4 coats of automotive clear. It turned out great, but the thought of doing all the cabinets , with their recesses , what a nightmare, I would suggest if David's stuff is working at all, just keep using it.
Dave
-
The problem that Gary is dealing with is restricted to the very high gloss "piano finish" that was used on the Marquis coaches starting in 1997. The whitish blush is related to moisture.
You might try calling Jim Sizemore at RV Outfitters. Jim and his associate Greg Fulton do a lot of Beaver cabinet work, and if there is a solution for this problem, they will probably know about it.
Gerald
-
Gerald, that's the Marquis we have (1997), so I feel you're right about it being related to moisture. The finish is very hard, so it will be a challenge if we decide to try taking it off. Thanks for all the suggestions - I have a lot of calling and research to do.
-
We had a cabinet built by a cabinet maker who said that the finish on our cabinets is spayed lacquer. My husband installed a drawer dishwasher and used brushing lacquer and it matches perfectly.
-
We looked at a Marquis several years ago that had been stored in Florida, closed up, and many of the cabinets were a milky white. It's not spots, its a very light milky appearance. It's not on the outer finish; that was still very glossy.
I took pictures and sent them to BCS, back when they were still building Beavers there and talked to the factory folks and the woodworking guys. The moisture in the motorhome was inside the cabinets and affecting the layer of lacquer next to the wood. (Lacquer is white in it's liquid state.) They said there were 7 layers of lacquer on the woodwork.
They told us it was impossible to refinish the frames, as sanding it off would destroy the wood. They said they could possibly refinish the doors to the cabinets.
They said they had seen where a milky motorhome had been taken to a dryer climate and it improved some.
BTW. 'OZ' is the only thing Greg Fulton of RV Outfitters recommended to us to use on our Marquis lacquer cabinets. He also sells it and will ship it to you. What I got from him was a spray polish ($11 in 2010). He used to work at the factory in the woodworking dept and does beautiful work.
Here are some photos of the one we looked at.
Glenda 8)
-
When we bought our '98 Marquis it looked exactly like the photos Glenda posted. However, this white, milky finish was on the surface. If you rubbed with your finger it would come off. We used and orange oil based wood cleaner. Came right off. Didn't seem to harm the finish and so far the milk hasn't returned.
-
That's a different kind of milky problem. We have that with our 2000 Marquis in areas that aren't touched a lot, like the bedroom pocket doors, inside closet doors and the kitchen pocket door are places I see it a lot. Also, under the cabinets in the living room. It's like a yucky, milky, oily, dusty layer on the wood and it does come right off when I polish it with OZ.
The only thing to be concerned about when using any product that doesn't mention lacquer or "sealed wood" is that over time, it may cause problems. I knew a past BAC member, with a Marquis that told me "I use Clorox wipes (no bleach) , but the finish is getting sticky."
Glenda 8)
-
Gary, honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much. You don't want to do anything to mar the glossy finish. I would recommend getting some OZ, since it's really good to polish the wood anyway and see if it helps.
We see a lot of Marquis' that have a touch of the milkiness creeping in and it's not that big of a deal.
Glenda 8)
-
I wonder if shining a heat lamp on the doors and frames would re-harden the lacquer and eliminate the milkiness
-
From what I understand, based on conversations with the woodworking crew at Beaver Coach Sales (originally factory woodworking folks) is that this clear finish, although it may be lacquer based, was a two part catalized system from PPG. Once on, it cured and there was not much you could do with it afterwards. If you are going to experiment, I would do it on the inside of a cabinet door given the low likelyhood that the finish could be altered. My ceiling panels have cracks in the clearcoat and I have lived with that given there have been no options available to refinish it. If someone has some success with heat or whatever alternatives that are tried let us know.
Later Ed
-
Ed, that's funny you should bring up, the ceiling panels, I have just finished redoing all of mine, and was going to post some pictures tomorrow , after I finished installing them. My interior is cherry, with Makori insets, the ceiling insets were Makori as well, I replaced them with cherry plywood. They turned out fantastic, I will post the pictures and describe the process tomorrow.
Dave
-
I know this subject has been hashed to death already but thought I would add my 2 cents worth since I dealt with Beaver extensively on this very problem that we had in our previous coach a 2004 Marquis. Our cabinets began getting this milky appearance and eventually all of the makori inserts started delaminating. The whole problem (according to Beaver at the time) is due to moisture from the wood itself probably being absorbed from humid air. The milky appearance is a precipitate of minerals probably calcium and magnesium from the water. The precipitate is on the underside of the clear coat finish. From what I know all of the woodwork in our beautiful coaches is put in the paint booth and sprayed with multiple coats of automotive clearcoat or something similar. The ONLY solution is to prevent the moisture once it is there and the precipitate forms it is too late to do anything except replace the entire finish. At the time Beaver offered us a solution to remove all the cabinet doors and ship them to the factory and they would fix them. Well we decided to trade coaches and ordered a newer Marquis (without makori inserts). I let the dealer fix the delamination. :o
Now when we store the coach I put a small household dehumidifier in the coach. I always clean and seal all of the woodwork with automotive wax including the backside of the cabinet doors. Fortunately we have very little milky deposits but we still have some. I think this is a inherent problem with clear-coated cabinets and humid air.
-
Dave,
Neat project, like to see them and hear about the process. I was eyeing a marine cherry and ash sole plywood at one time and thought it might look good but I have not gone there. It is like me with age, I do not dwell on the defects quite as much....
Later Ed