BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Mike.Way on November 01, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
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Hey all, I lost the serpentine belt yesterday and we limped into Kerrville, TX. We may have to hang around until the parts stores open on Monday.
Does anyone know the required belt for my engine? It is a c-12 in a '98 Marquis with side radiator. The only driven items are alternator and AC compressor.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Way
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Mike,
The part number for the serpentine belt (engine drive belt) on my 2000 Marquis C-12 (probably the same as your 1998) is Dayco 20-9205 or Magnum 0201147.
The belt is not a common part, and you may find it necessary to order it from Beaver Coach Sales in Bend because it probably will not be available locally.
Gerald
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Thanks Gerald,
I did find a number on the remaining piece. It was Dayton(?) 20-9612. Magnum # 0206319. I hope it is more common. Hope I can find one as we have to be in Tallhassee, Fl next Friday.
Still searching since most parts stores are not open on Sunday.
Mike
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Some additional information. For some reason the numbers on my broken belt did not match with the numbers that Gerald posted. No matter, a web search for either number failed to turn up anything. I decided to RTFM and found the books numbers matched Gerald's.
I also decided to measure the length after I found the belt schematic. As best as we could, with a stretched nylon rope we got a length of 121.25, counted 8 ribs and measured about 1.10+/- 0.02 inches wide. That corresponded to a Dayton/Dayco number 508123 and crossed to a Gates number of K081213 (Prd ID 855222932). No CAT numbers matched the specs.
I am now looking for those numbers or something similar when NAPA opens in the morning.
Mike
As always, your mileage may vary.
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You may want to try a CAT dealer. I needed a new belt earlier this year for my 06 Monterey, ad was told that there was no way that it was a CAT part, but guess what...it was!! The belt was overnighted, so I had it the next day.
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I have a 1997 Marquis with a C12 and carry a spare and the number on my spare is Napa V Ribbed Belt number 080733. I have replaced mine a couple of times when I started to see cracks in it. I too have a side radiator.
Good Luck
David Fischer
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All is well. I went to NAPA this morning and they had the Gates part number from above, $48 later I headed back to the coach and installed it in a few minutes. Off we went and everything seems okay.
@David, the belt you listed speced to 76? inches. The one I needed was 121.25 and the Gates belts worked great.
@Louis, when I checked the CAT site, they did not even list a belt of that size.
Thanks everyone for the quick replies and the information. This is a great community.
Mike
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I Hike: I hope the number didn't cause you to much problem. If I am correct I got the original number off the belt and it compared to a napa number. I guess our configurations are different. Glad things worked out.
David
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I wanted to do a final report on the belt. Turns out the 1st belt failed because the AC compressor was failing(seizing). The coach would not start and we were towed into Mustang CAT in EL Campo, TX. After a little bit head scratching, someone suggested that the belt be removed and everything started right up. Of course the next task was to try and find an AC compressor. They couldn't and we were getting late for an event. So, the compressor was pulled and a shorted belt was rerouted. We made it back to Florida and we watched the grandson play in his game..
At this point I am looking for an AC compressor and an alternator (the bearing is failing in that). We got in last week and I parked the coach to unload; it would not shut off. No ignition switch position worked and I was forced to use the kill switch in the service bay. Next task, find an ignition switch. Looks like a Ford bezel and key.
Mike
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I think that your coach uses the ignition switch from a chevrolet truck, but be sure that it is the switch and not the solenoid in the LF electrical bay.
Gerald
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You are correct Gerald. The ignition switch is from a 67 Chevrolet pickup truck. They are available at most NAPA stores. After my third switch, I found the slide out was not operating because of a bad relay in the L/F electrical bay.
Larry
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I would take the alternator to a rebuild shop. They should be able to replace the bearing and make it as good as new for under $200.
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Mike, the problem with your A/C compressor sounds like a bad pulley bearing, which can be replaced in most cases without removing the compressor and having to recharge the system. If the clutch hub turns, but the pulley that the belt runs on will not turn, the pulley bearing is bad and not the compressor.
It can be replaced by removing the clutch (puller and installer required), removing the snap ring and removing the pulley (puller and installer required). Drive out the old bearing, drive in a new one and reinstall.
Most A/C shops will probably do the job for about an hours lobor, or you can do it yourself if you can borrow the pullers from the local parts house.
Gerald
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Thanks all for your very helpful comments. I will do the ac and alternator this week and let everyone know.
Mike
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Greetings, this is the last on the belt and other issues.
The alternator was rebuilt. New brushes, bearings, regulator and diodes. The case was blasted and painted. It is back in and the cost was $250. Beats the heck out of $550 plus delivery fees.
The A/C compressor was replaced. I was told that no one rebuilds these due EPA regulations. Your mileage may vary. Total cost $385. The CAT repair shop could only find one in Oregon(?). There was one in Tampa and delivered at no charge the next day. Cat was getting me for $680 + overnight air.
The belt went right back on, no problems. The number was listed above in a earlier post, and I am attaching a scan of the belt configuration for comparison.
Finally, the board administrator inserted a message into the flow of this, suggesting that the sponsors be supported. Implying that NAPA and others sources should be denied. I question that logic. I do support the board's sponsors, when appropriate. I bought my coach from one. I had body work done there even though I had to drive 1200 miles. But with tight money, $1200 versus $635 is not support, it is charity. It is easy when you are close to them, but difficult when you are stuck in El Campo, Texas or Clearwater, FL.
Hope my experiences and parts discoveries help.
Mike
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Serpentine belt solution for a 2000 Patriot Thunder C12 425h.p. Original belt was a Magnum 0201147 Dayco 20-9205. This July we went to Napa in South Salem Oregon. The original belt was manufacture discontinued. They worked with us and came up with Napa 25 081153 (1 3/32" X 116 1/4" OC Gates). Cost $52.00 which is $20 less than original belt. The pointer on the tensioner falls in the middle of the green. Two thousand miles later and still working perfect.
Lowell Nash
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I'm bringing this post up one more time regarding the serpentine belt for our C12s. It was mentioned that the original Dayco20-9205/Magnum 0201147 had been discontinued. I would love to know what the outside circumference is of that PN if anyone has a spare one around. I think Dayco obsoleted the original PN and the closest length PN was then used....just an educated guess. Not sure the new PN was ever the right length.
My 2002 Cat C12 has a Dayco PN 20-9612/Magnum 0206319 installed and is specified in the manual. The outside circumference is 115 3/8 ". I measured that by laying the belt flat in sections on a table and marking it carefully with a pencil in 10 inch increments assuring it was flat for the segment being measured and then adding in the last shorter segment. My problem is that the C12 tensioner has been a bit out of range on the tight side with my current belt even at its end of life. (showing cracks and feeling brittle). My spare Dayco 20-9612 is also a bit out of range, tight on the tensioner. I'm guessing that the earlier belt PN was a bit longer and that we have the same pulley/component configuration for 2000-2002 C12s (maybe more). I have replaced several idler pulleys for bearing wear and perhaps the extra tension played a role here. You may want to check your tensioner if you are running the original PN belt and see where it falls in the tensioner range. These belts do not stretch.
On the postings above there is discussion about measurements in the 120s but that was done, I believe with no belt on, so it does not help us here. I have ordered a NAPA 25-081153HD which is made by Gates and is the Green Fleetrunner Version which tolerates more heat and has improved materials for hotter running diesels. In the prior post this belt PN without the HD version has been used by some. The HD is also available by Gates with a PN K081153HD.
As mentioned, the outside circumference is 116.27" in both HD and vanilla versons of the NAPA belt. The width is 1.087" 8 rib MicroV. If the original Dayco PN 20-9205 supplied by Gerald was closer to the 116.27", and my tensioner falls more centered in the scale with that length belt, then we should avoid the Dayco PN 20-9612/ Magnum 0206319 that is supplied now because it is too short. I'm assuming others are finding their tensioner are also falling on the tight side with that PN. Comments if you have a chance to check...
The Gates application engineer that I spoke with likes the belt length within +/- 1/8" of OEM to get the tensioner set right for these type belts. He assumes the OEM belt was right to begin with.... So if anyone wants to pull and measure the old PN or has a spare let me know. I will post how my tensioner falls when the new belt is in later this week. FYI the discounted price was $59 for the HD version at NAPA.
Later Ed
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Mike,
I posted the part number for the compressor in an earlier post. I got the compressor from Fleet rite a truck parts distributor. Remove and install was easy the hard part is to vacum and recharge the system properly.
If you replace the compressor make sure you replace the dryer!
Re installing the belt was a bit of a knuckle buster because of the size of the idler pulley. You will need a 1/2 drive pull bar and alot of a$$.
Good Luck