BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Arden Smith on May 07, 2013, 04:27:56 AM
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I am going to change out my coolant and go to ELC coolant. Seems to me that somewhere here in the past there was info passed on to the effect that Texaco ELC was the same as Cat ELC. Am I imagining this or was that for real?
Arden Smith
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Arden,
Texaco extended life coolant for heavy duty diesel engines that meets the Cat EC-1 specification is the same as Cat ELC, however the Texaco extended life coolant that is designed for cars. is not.
Gerald
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Thank you for the info,
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Gerald,
Any idea how many gallons of ELC will be required to change out an 05/06 Monterey, with a CAT C-9? Most likely I will have to replace the hose that runs from the radiator to the expansion tank on my coach, so may need to look at draining the system. If I must drain the whole works, approximately how many gallons are needed to replace the ELC in the Monterey? I did check my owners manual but can find nothing that suggests how many gallons of coolant are needed for total replacement.
Thanks for any assistance.
William Brown
06 Monterey, Laguna IV
CAT C-9
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Bill,
I am not certain what coolant capacity is, but I would estimate from 8 to 10 gallons depending on how thoroughly to system is drained.
Gerald
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Gerald,
Thanks for the info. I hope to get the job accomplished today. I need to pick up the coolant and some distilled water first.
Bill
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Bill, my coach manual shows an initial fill capacity of 65 qts (16+ gallons).
-Joel
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Thanks Joel.
I was hoping to maybe be able to cut a bad section out of the old hose going into the expansion tank, however, after spending more then an hour trying to get the old hose to go over the bib on the tank I had to give up and order some new hose. BCS has it, but is $17.45 a foot, plus postage. I called a local NAPA and they have similar hose for $13.44 a foot that meets the same standards, just not Coast Quard approved, So ordered it from NAPA. Has to come out of Portland to Coeur d' Alene. So guess I will definitely get to find out how many gallons/quarts my coach takes. We had the system flushed a couple years ago on our way north thru Canada, so hope to only have to drain and maybe be able to reuse some of our coolant. Thanks for the assistance.
Bill Brown
06 Beaver Monterey, CAT C-9
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Our coach was only a few months old when that big expansion tank hose blew out, resulting in a tow to Harrisburg. Ironically we were on our way there for other warranty work when it blew. The Monaco tech had to have another hose custom made in Eugene (with a better configuration), and then he re-routed and padded several hoses for less stress on them. The new hose was supposedly of higher quality. Some surmised that somewhere along the line between factory and dealer someone had scavenged our original hose for another coach's repair, and an old one ended up on ours. But maybe that specific long hose on '06 Montereys just isn't up to the task.
I'd advise all owners of that era of C9 Montereys to regularly inspect the radiator to coolant tank hose (and others) for signs of deterioration or weakness.
Joel
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All,
It may not be real obvious there is any significant detioration just by looking at the exterior of the hose. I believe our radiator's expansion hose to be an original, i.e. placed on the coach back in late 05. The hose leading from the radiator up to the expansion tank is approxiamately 6 1/2 - 7 feet long, I haven't got all my coolant, hose, etc, yet so haven't completely removed the hose for measuring. Outward appearance looked very good. I noticed my leak just beneath the tank where the hose must expand over the bib and prior to the clamp. After removing the hose to try and salvage the remaining hose, it became obvious, to me, the inside of the hose is what had detiorated. The rubber just flakes away when trying to push the hose over the tank bib. My replacement hose should arrive sometime this afternoon, so hope to get the job accomplished on Monday.
William Brown
06 Monterey, Laguna IV
CAT C-9
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I dunno if this may be a little late for you, Bill, but I just found my receipt for the last coolant change. They used 5 gallons of ELC and 5 gallons of water. Then "topped off as needed" after warming the engine. More in line with Gerald's advisory. Am not sure why the Beaver manual implies so much more, and hope the tech drained mine thoroughly in the first place; he was exceedingly efficient by nature, so I doubt he would goof that up. I need to check the CAT manual for capacities I reckon.
Joel
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Joel,
Caterpillar has no idea what the cooling capacity of your coach is. Beaver and not Caterpillar, installed the radiator, hoses, dash heater core, and Aqua Hot heat exchanger, all of which increase the cooling capacity. So Caterpillar can tell you how much coolant the engine holds and how many BTUs of cooling capacity the engine requires, but that is all. The Roadmaster chassis manual is were the cooling system capacity should be listed, however there is a difference between the drain and refill capacity, and the total capacity because draining the system does not completely empty it.
Gerald
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Thank you Joel and Gerald for your responses.
I haven't had the opportunity to change out my hose and coolant, as the hose didn't make the truck., and now is not forecast to be here before Tuesday. That said I have been reconsidering possibily taking the coach to one of the truck repair outfits, Peterbilt is close, or even over to Cummins Northwest in Spokane. My main concern however, is that the hose is disconnected from the bottom of the expansion tank. So, my thought is to plug the hose, secure the clamp to hold the plug in place, then make the drive to whichever location I am able to get into. That would simplyfy my having to try and do the job in what is basicly a large pasture, with no running water or proper place to dispose of the old coolant. I may have one other small delema since I disconnected the two "return lines" that come from near the top of the thermostat housing, into the top of the expansion tank. I would not expect any overheating due to lose of coolant in a short 10 to 40 mile drive, however, should/could I expect coolant to be pumped up thru those two small return lines?
Thanks for any info, thoughts or suggestions.
William Brown (Bill)
06 Monterey, 40" Laguna IV
CAT C-9
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Bill,
There are two problems with you plan to drive the coach up to 40 miles. The first thing is that the small hoses from the engine to the expansion tank will flow enough coolant to overheat the engine in a short time frame if the hose to the radiator is removed from the bottom of the tank. The other thing is that the expansion tank can not be removed from the system and the hoses plugged because the expansion of the coolant as the engine heats up will cause so much pressure in the system that a failure is immanent unless a large air pocket is left in the system. So the easiest way to make the coach drivable is to splice a section of hose to the existing hose and reconnect it to the expansion tank.
Gerald
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Gearld,
Thanks for the info. I knew things could not be as easy as plugging the hose. I was also wondering about the heat expansion that needs to take place. I expect automotive heater hose will work for the temporary patch and hopefully suffice for the drive to West Spokane, if need be? I'll also pick up some distilled water to help top up the system for the drive.
Bill
William Brown
06 Monterey, 40' Laguna IV
CAT C-9
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Thanks Gerald, I should have remembered that, and probably would have if I'd gotten around to reading the CAT manual and triggered more consideration about total capacity.
Bill, as Gerald mentions, overheating in a short period is possible with the configuration you describe, but is not necessarily your only concern - be sure your expansion tank fluid level stays above the sensor in its right side, or it will engage your Check Engine lamp and likely the ECM will throw the engine into protective "limp" mode. If possible, take a route with plenty of known turnouts. Or resign to somehow doing the job yourself. Also, if you have Coach-Net or similar, consider the option of a tow to your service facility.
Joel
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Joel & Gerald,
Thanks for all the good info. I do still need to pick up a gal or so of distilled water in order to raise the coolant level above the sensor on the right of the expansion tank. The system seems to have passed the ideling test. I only got it up to 135 degs prior to shutting down, though. I will start looking close for options to drive to tomorrow. I did find a NAPA close to our location with hose similar to what is currently on the coach, so was able to get a section of that and will use a short length of PVC for the splice. I am not enthoused about using the PVC but didn't find anything else to make the splice with. Possibily we are closer to getting back on the road.
Bill
William Brown
06 Monterey, 40' Laguna IV
CAT C-9
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Joel and Gerald,
Thanks again for all your assistance and suggestions. I did make it to a repair shop in Postfalls, Id, this afternoon with my "jury rigged" coolant system. Tomorrow hopefully the hose to the expansion tank will be replaced, system flushed, and new ELC coolant added and we'll be back on the road. Many thanks for the excellant info and reminders of things we probably should all remember, but may have forgetten!
William Brown
06 Monterey, 40' Laguna IV
CAT C-9