BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: David T. Richelderfer on July 04, 2013, 08:02:02 PM
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I replaced my two 12v chassis batteries with new Les Schwabbies. In the process of putting in the new batteries, YES I got them in backwards. I didn't take a picture on my cellphone and didn't take notes as to the batteries and cables configuration.
Lesson #1: ALWAYS TAKE A PICTURE AND TAKE NOTES!
So I had everything just exactly backwards... red cables on negative terminals and black cables on positive terminals. Guess what... no power to the key switch and a totally dead dashboard. Now I'm pretty sure I have the batteries in correctly and the cables attached correctly. Still no power to the key switch and dashboard.
I called the dealer where I bought the coach asking for help. We found an ANL 200 amp fuse blown in the cabinet with the Big Boy and BIRD system above the coach batteries. Interestingly, after several hours of sitting the power returned to the key switch and dashboard, but a dead starter when I try to start the C-12 engine.
I found and replaced the blown ANL 200 fuse ($10) with one I found at a local car stereo shop. With the new ANL 200 fuse in place, I have power at the key switch and dashboard, but still nothing when I turn the key to start the C-12 engine. So I continued looking around for anything that doesn't look right.
Lesson #2: High amperage fuses are often used in higher power sound systems... in cars and on stages.
In the basement electrical bay beneath the pilot's seat there is a solenoid. I found a very small half-cylinder plastic piece that obviously came off a solenoid attachment, a "3A Standard rectifier" part name/number "1N5404 3A 3 Amp 400V Diodes Axial." I am told the local O'Reilly's store is open. Soooo... I am now on the hunt for this small diode, but I may just buy a whole new solenoid.
Present situation: I have flipped off the inverter at the 120v panel to reset it (hopefully). I have the coach plugged into my home's 30 amp outlet with a/c running. The hydraulic leveling works with the key on and I have leveled the coach with it. The Kenwood screen/radio/dvd player does not have power, but the SilverLeaf screen does have power. The dashboard has power; all the normal lights on the dashboard seem to be working when the key is on. The inverter control panel inside the coach has power and appears to be functioning normally... but both the C-12 and generator starters will not actuate to start those engines.
What reset or fuse am I overlooking?
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Neither starter would have been actuated so they are fine. The solenoid in the front should be fine, just the diode should need to be replaced. You can check that by turning the key on and checking the right copper buss is powered up and down with the key. When the high current fuse blew there was very high current shorting taking place and diodes like on the front solenoid are prime candidates for shorting out.
I do not know if the ECUs for the engine, transmission, or the generator would tolerate the reverse polarity. Time will tell on that one.... Remove the diode completely from the front solenoid until you get a new one. Any 3amp diode with at least a 100V rating will do. In both the generator case and engine case when you switch either the key or the start switch to the generator there needs to be 12V applied to the small 12V starter solenoid lead. I would check there and see if you have 12V when held in the start position. The generator may have a delay built in for preheat before the starter has 12V applied to the solenoid. If you do not see 12V then I would work my way back on that wire with a schematic to what comes next. Hopefully it is a relay, fuse, or some easily replaced part.
Later Ed
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David,
The solenoid is OK if you were able to level. You can double check by seeing if the driving lights and wipers work as all 3 circuits are fed from the ignition bus that is powered when the solenoid is energized. I agree with Ed re the starter motors. Both should have independent solenoids but I don't know where they are located. Since neither work I suspect a common cause, relay of fuse.
A call to Ken at BCS might be in order. I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams on the BAC site to see if I can figure it out.
Steve
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David,
I strongly suspect that the problem(s) is due to a blown fuse on the fuse module. It should be located in the battery compartment. The module should contain 5 fuses, FH1-5 and a couple of modules. FH1 (15A) is Battery Power. FH2 (20A) is VIM power. FH3 (20A) is ECM power. FH4 (20A) is Ignition power. FH5 (30A) is Cooling Fan power. I think FH4 is most likely the problem for engine start, but check them all.
Steve
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Here's the pertinent poop regarding the questions/information above.
With the key in the OFF position:
1) In the electrical bay the right most copper buss is cold. The other two left copper busses are hot. The solenoid's left large post is hot. The other three posts are cold.
SOLENOID
H C Capital letter means large post. H/h=HOT
c c Small letter means small post. C/c=COLD
With the key in the ON position:
1) In the electrical bay all three copper busses are hot. Both of the solenoid's large posts and the left small post are hot (the right large post is connected to the right copper buss); the other small post on the right is cold.
SOLENOID
H H
h c
2) Lights (dashboard, headlights, driving lights, etc.) and wipers all work.
3) The Kenwood screen will not power up.
4) The Alladdin works (shows a red dot in all joystick locations) and can be operated from the bedroom joystick on the bedroom TV.
With the key in the START position:
1) Neither the C-12 or generator will start.
2) (Identical to key ON position) In the electrical bay all three copper busses are hot. Both of the solenoid's large posts and the left small post are hot (the right large post is connected to the right copper buss); the other small post on the right is cold.
SOLENOID
H H
h c
In the battery compartment all five auto-style fuses in the fuse module are good. Near the fuse module, closer to the engine, there is an identical solenoid as is found in the front electrical bay... with what appears to be a good rectifier/diode.
In the BIRD/Big Boy compartment (located immediately above the coach batteries), all six high amp fuses are good. One 5 amp auto-style fuse attached to a solenoid is good.
We have not located locally a replacement rectifier-diode for the front electrical bay solenoid yet... still looking. The closest Radio Shack is either Pendleton or the Tri-Cities - 30 and 40 miles, respectively. Before making the longer drive we are checking with local auto and parts dealers.
Conclusion: Everything appears to be working except the engine starting functions (C-12 and generator) and the Kenwood. What is common about these - a fuse under the dash or perhaps behind the electrical bay? When I am sitting near the BIRD/Big Boy compartment it sounds like the charging function for the batteries is kicking in and out as I would normally expect from a fully charged battery bank.
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I am thinking the small rectifier/diode on the electrical bay solenoid is not critical to the functioning of the solenoid. I am thinking the solenoid should operate without it. These small diodes mainly function to reduce/eliminate radio static - yes? Could the lack of the rectifier/diode be the reason for the C-12 and generator not wanting to start?
By the way, the Radio Shack in Pendleton has two 2-packs of these rectifier/diodes... $1.99 for a 2-pack.
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David,
Is the 12V battery terminal on the starter solenoid hot? If not you have a misconnected/misrouted battery cable that supplies the starter. The same source supplies the generator. If the battery post on the starter is hot, does the starter solenoid engage when you try to start the engine?
Gerald
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I am assuming the starter solenoid is that solenoid found in the front electrical bay which is connected to the right-most copper buss. There is also an identical solenoid found at the rear of the coach in the battery compartment on the wall beside the 5-fuse module. Both of these solenoids have the same part number. I do not know if the solenoid in the rear battery compartment is involved in the starter function.
Regarding the front electrical bay solenoid, when the key is in the ON position making the right copper buss bar hot, then yes the solenoid is hot at the right large post... because the right large post is connected to that copper buss. In fact, with the key ON three of the posts on this solenoid are hot - both large posts and the left small post. The right small post is cold.
SOLENOID with key on
H H
h c
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David,
The solenoid in the front electrical bay is the ignition solenoid, not the starter solenoid. Not sure but I suspect the starter solenoid is located close to the starter. Gerald would probably know for sure.
I just went through the wiring diagrams again and came to pretty much the same conclusion as Gerald. I don't see any other fuses or solenoids in the circuit Based on what you reported, most likely either a mis-wire or fried starter solenoids (which is doubtful).
Steve
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Okay - working my way through this... learning definitions of what is what and trying to diagnose symptoms.
The solenoid in the front electrical bay is the IGNITION solenoid. Can we make the assumption the solenoid found in the battery compartment near the fuse module is the STARTER solenoid?
The ignition solenoid seems to be okay. It receives power from the right-most copper buss bar when the key is in the ON position... and with the key in the ON position the solenoid passes power across to the other large post. Sooo... the ignition circuit is live when the key is in the ON position.
I have now checked the (what I assume is) the STARTER solenoid in the rear battery compartment. With the key in the OFF position, it has power at one large post... the same large post as noted on the ignition solenoid. I assume that is power coming from the batteries.
With the key in the ON position, there is no change... only the one large post is hot. I think this is good. Since the starter system has not been engaged, the starter solenoid hot/cold posts should not change.
With the key in the START position, there is still no change... only the one large post is hot. I think this is bad. With the key in the START position the starter solenoid should be engaged. It is not engaging.
I am thinking that with the key in the START position the solenoid should have been activated with power flowing through the large posts to the engine's starter. Sooo... either that STARTER solenoid is bad or the link between the key and the starter solenoid is broken... by a blown fuse under the dash perhaps? I am thinking when the key is in the START position, then the starter solenoid should have the same hot/cold posts (2 large posts and one small post hot, and one small post cold) as the ignition solenoid when the key is in the ON position.
Now keep in mind that somewhere between the generator start button and the generator starter there should be a starter solenoid. That generator starter solenoid also is not engaging.
This all points to a blown fuse(?) after the ignition solenoid and before the key switch and generator start button.
I think I should crawl under the engine to look for more solenoids... especially a solenoid near the starter. My assumption that what I have now been defining the starter solenoid may be another system's solenoid. So I will do a bit more research under the coach's engine.
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David,
The starter solenoid is bolted to the starter, directly above the starter motor.
Gerald
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David,
You are right about the diode in the electrical bay, it is not critical, it shorts out the voltage spike that is generated when the mag field in the solenoid collapses when you turn the ignition off. It is good to have to protect electronics but that can come later.
All you are doing with that solenoid is powering up the copper buss of accessories that turn on with the ignition switch. All the relays connected to that buss now have available power, like wipers, lights, dash fan etc. The solenoid in the battery compartment I believe is the one that parallels the battery banks for emergency starting. If some one hits that switch on the side console you should be able to hear it click and confirms that is its function.
The solenoids that we are referring to reside on the starters themselves. They are more long cylinder arrangements on the side of the starter. When you turn on the ignition key to the start position the electromagnet portion throws the starter flywheel engagement gear forward, when that is in place and the throw is complete at the end of that stroke is a contactor that engages the heavy current circuit and connects it to the starter. On both of the starter solenoid there is a smaller 12V wire that should have 12 V applied when the respective starter switch is engaged (key on dash for engine, rocker for the genset). You need to also measure the larger cable that terminates at the starter solenoid and see if 12V is constantly present. If you do not have 12V on the large cable something is open/disconnected in the large cable coming from the battery bank. If you have 12V on the large wire but not the small wire going to the starter solenoid while in the start position then it is an open going to or coming from the starter switch which could still be a fuse/breaker somewhere. This will take some tracing.
In some cases the starter solenoid can be separate from the starter but I do not think we are dealing with that case here.
Later Ed
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I'm no expert, but I've yet to see a starter that didn't have its solenoid attached to it, so voltage flows straight to the starter rather than through more wire beyond the heavy contacts, but I certainly haven't seen every application. The solenoid in the bat compartment was replaced once while I was at BCS, but was associated with a faulty salesman's switch. I can't remember what the techs and Ken called it, but don't think it was associated with the starter.
You need to crawl under the coach.
Joel
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Dave,
I find myself on Tengonet in Seattle area and I can use the forum but the forum will not let me post a photo evidently over Tengonet. I tried to send you a photo of the starter/solenoid arrangement via Email but I think your Email address on the forum may not be up to date.
Later Ed
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My email address is dtrjb5331@gmail.com. Yes, there is a smaller cylinder on top of the starter... and I thought it might be the starter solenoid. As you(s) say, most often the starter solenoid is mounted on the starter motor. The problem is that solenoid is virtually impossible to access. I can see one large red-banded wire going to that solenoid coming directly from the chassis battery bank. There is also a smaller wire attached to that solenoid coming in from above the starter, but I have no idea from where. Also, there are three large black-banded wires attached directly to the starter body and all at one point.
You are correct in that I neglected to change my email address after a change. I have now done that and am awaiting validation from the admin. The updated email address is that one I entered above.
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David,
As Ed said, the large red cable should have 12V at all times. If you can't access the terminal on the starter but can access the cable, try using a pin to pierce the insulation to see if you can measure 12V between the pin and ground. If you have 12v, then have someone try the ignition key and see if you hear a click from the solenoid. If no sound you are probably not getting 12v from the ignition key.
Steve
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David,
The large black wires are grounds that come from the battery and chassis. The large red wire comes directly from the battery bank and is the main current carrier that will get connected to the starter when the solenoid contacts are made. The small wire on the solenoid that comes from the top is the one you are interested in once you confirm that the large red wire has 12V on it. If not the chassis battery switch may be fried or sometimes there is a fusible link large wire in the path to or from the switch.
That wire coming from the top to the solenoid should have 12V on it with the key in the cranking position. If you do not have 12V at the solenoid wire you can check at the key switch and then if you have it there you know it is lost somewhere in between.
Later Ed
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Well... I have verified the large red cable going from the chassis batteries to the starter solenoid is always HOT. It should be because it is attached directly to the batteries. I have also verified the smaller wire going from the front of the coach (the key switch?) to the starter solenoid is COLD in any key switch position... and notably when the key switch is in the START position. Sooooo... as pointed out we have isolated the problem to between the key switch and starter solenoid. But additionally, since the generator will not start, we have the same problem between the generator start switch and the generator's starter solenoid - yes? Therefore, can we narrow the scope of the problem to a common length of circuitry that both the C-12 and generator use in there ignition startup?
Of note the five wires at the back of the key switch are quite small. Yet the smaller wire going to the starter solenoid is several sizes larger than each of the five wires at the key switch. Somewhere in the maze of wires between the key switch and starter solenoid the wire size is increased. My guess is the wire at the generator switch is also much smaller than the wire leading to the generator's starter solenoid - just a guess. This leads me to believe there may be another pair of solenoids(or something?) that are operated by the key switch and generator start switch in their ignition startup positions... at least there is a place where these smaller wires transition to the larger wires.
How can we have the identical startup issues for both engines? It seems highly probable there is a common circuit after the rightmost copper buss but before the two start switches used by both the generator and C-12 engines.
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Dave,
Your reasoning is sound but it is hard to know for sure if there is a common cause without finding the root cause. One quick check that you can do is along the left copper buss in the electrical bay, there is a row of thermal breakers with one end bolted to the buss. The other side of each of those thermal breakers has a wire attached going somewhere. I think the top one on that left buss is ignition at least on an older Marquis schematic. See if you have 12V on the side connected with the wire at each of those thermal breakers. They should show 12V all the time.
I do not think that there is a relay between the start switch and the wire that feeds the starter solenoid. Just some connections and possibly some plug pins. What is next is to see that one of the wires that comes out of the key switch goes to 12V in the crank position and then backs off to 0 volts when you release it. That wire will have a label on it. That same labeled wire should be able to be found in the electrical bay. If you have a schematic for the coach that covers the ignition switch circuit that would help see if a relay or fuse is involved between the key switch and the starter solenoid. If you have 12V at the dash key in the start position wire, then when you find the same wire labeled in the bay you need to gain access to the conductor and see if it has 12V also when the crank position on the switch is applied. Good to check that wire near where it exits the bay heading to the rear of the coach.
This is a real puzzle because I do not se how a reverse polarity at the battery could have cause current flow that would be damaging to the start switch crank wiring, That should have been an isolated wire with the key off.
Later Ed
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David,
I can't find the link to the ignition key in the schematics. However, the start signal to the starter solenoid is circuit 232 (labeled on wire). It's a 14 AWG wire at the starter.
Couple of checks though; Have you tried starting the engine from the service center (rear passenger side bay)? Also, depending on the options on your coach, there are 2 circuit breakers in the front electrical bay, one on the battery side and one on the ignition side. The one on the battery side should be labeled Ignition Key and the Ignition side one should be Ignition Power. See if both have 12v with key on. If one doesn't it should engage and have 12v when the key goes to start.
Steve
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When I put in the new batteries I was in a hurry. We were scheduled to depart on Wednesday morning for a nice 4-day 4th of July with a brother and sister. When the engine didn't start initially with the old batteries, I went to Schwabs to get two new ones. By the time I got the new batteries installed I was running two hours late. I didn't know I had the batteries in backwards until I switched on the main chassis power and jumped in the seat. I turned the key, all dead, and turned the key farther, all dead. Well, by now I have sent the reverse polarity into every nook and cranny possible. So just about anything connected to those backwards batteries was hit and may be sick. It's now Saturday morning and I have not departed yet... nay, I have not got the starter to engage yet. I for years have been licensed to drive, licensed to dive, and licensed to fly. This is what happens when we get in a hurry and take short cuts without double-checking. I always double-check the coach before I move it - dish stowed, leveling legs up, basement doors tight, shower door tied closed, pocket doors latched, all cabinet doors latched, slides in, topper awnings rolled in properly with the slides,... even toilet lid down and loo door closed... and lastly, before I put it in gear, check for the travel light. This is just stupidity at its finest!
I don't have a service center on my coach. Inside my rear passenger side bay there are both sets of batteries in separate slide-out trays, the two main power shut-offs, a door to the Big Boy and BIRD systems, the high amp ANL fuses, the fuse module, a couple oil filters, two solenoids,.... There is nothing like you have regarding the ability to start the engine and level the coach. My brother has the 2000 Tourmaline and I am somewhat familiar with his service center. I don't have such an animal.
But, you guys keep pointing me to check things... and until after the weekend all I have to do is check those things. At least my checking those things is cheap, eh? So far I have replaced one ANL 200 amp blade fuse ($10) and have bought a 2-pack of 1n5404 rectifier/diodes ($1.99). So far that's far cheaper than the fuel and 4-days RV park charges. So... I'm ahead - right?
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David,
I guess you are ahead so far and hopefully it will stay that way and end up a cheap fix. More than 200 amps went some where and if the current paths divided across enough paths to ground it may not be too bad. You might call BCS or Monaco and specifically ask what is in between the starter switch lead and the solenoid on the starter and see if it is more than just a wire. Someone must have a schematic.
I had a bit of a being in a hurry, running late calamity myself this spring. I have a Mini and an Accord set up for towing. I did not know that the Blue Ox removable Pins that lock in the front of the baseplate were different lengths for the two baseplates...never had them side by side. When I ended up with the Mini pins in the Accord baseplate they acted like they locked normally but when I pulled forward lets just say my car was set free except for the safety cables. Very lucky on that one...just a minor Honda bruise....It is an adventure at times.
Later Ed
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David,
Again, if you haven't already done so you might want to check 2 circuit breakers in the front electrical bay, one on the battery side and one on the ignition side. The one on the battery side should be labeled Ignition Key and the Ignition side one should be Ignition Power. See if both have 12v with key on. If one doesn't it should engage and have 12v when the key goes to start.
Steve
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Am I safe in assuming that because the tranny is electronic, the neutral safety switch isn't playing in here?
Joel
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Joel has a good question here, when you turn the ignition on without going to the start position, does the Alladin come up with a normal screen and parameter readings for a shut down engine and does the transmission panel light up and settle in neutral?
Later Ed
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I am not seeing any circuit breakers in the front electrical bay (basement door under the pilot's seat), nor in the battery compartment at the rear of the coach - passenger side.
In the front electrical bay, there is a host of 1" cube relays on the left side of the bay's curb-side wall - 26 of them - with identification "HELLA, 12v, 40a, 4RD, 960-388-46." These are 5-pin relays as noted in my Google search. Each relay has a 6-digit number branded/melted onto the plastic cube. There appear to be different brands within the group of 26 relays. I see at least 3 different brands in the dozen relays which are easily visible. Some relays have wires attached to all 5 pins, some do not. The schematic glued to the inner side of the bay door identify each circuit of the group of 25 relays; 1 relay is placed 5 inches away from the other group of 25 - it does not appear on the schematic.
Also, there are 12 different style (what appears to be) relays on the left side of the bay's street-side wall (exactly opposite the 26 relays above). I am unable to see a part identification number on the group of 12 relays. Interestingly, the group of 26 relays are all independently attached to that interior wall, but the group of 12 relays seem to interlock together into a long vertical string of cubes. These appear to be 5-pin as well. I have no idea what this group of 12 relays is for. This group of 12 relays does not appear on door's schematic.
The following list is those functions/items that do not work or light up when the key is in any position - ASSESSORY, OFF, ON, and START.
Kenwood AM/FM/CD.
Transmission shift keypad left of the pilot's seat.
Air leveling keypad.
Cobra CB radio.
In the key Start position the C-12's starter will not engage.
The generator's starter is independent of the key position. The generator should be able to be started in any key position. The generator's starter does not engage at any place where the generator is normally able to be started - that being at the start switch on the generator, at the generator's dashboard start switch, at the generator's bedroom start switch, and by the inverter's auto-gen start function.
Almost all other functions normally operated with the key in the ON position are working:
Blinkers, wipers, headlights, driving lights, mirror adjustment.
Dashboard lights, and lights associated with the engine, including Little Jake and Big Jake, etc.
Smart Wheel.
All gages.
Hydraulic leveling key/toggle pad.
SilverLeaf.
Entry step retract.
When the key is in the ASSESSORY position, all things work the same as in the key OFF position, except the Aladdin works normally in all key positions. I can see the Aladdin screens on the bedroom TV and all readings appear as I would expect with the engine not running.
All these things work independently of the key switch and work normally:
overhead coach lights, toilet, isle lights, clock on the convection/microwave, TVs, etc.
I hope I have all this accurate. Whew!
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Everything I see in these symptoms points to a common link between the generator and engine start functions. If it was at the key switch, a burned key switch in the START position for example, then that would not affect the generator start cycle. It just seems to me that there is a breaker thrown or relay/fuse blown in a circuit used by both the generator and engine start cycles.
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Dave,
I'll email you a copy of what I am referring to.
Steve
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Dave,
I would take each one of those items that do not work and identify which wire is the power feed. On many of those it may be color coded red but not always. See if you have 12V on that wire. That would begin to inventory which items may be damaged and which do not have power. When you find one without power then see if you can work that wire back to its power source which may include a defective relay, breaker, or fuse. Alternatively you could take a wire and put a crimp lug on the end and a fuse holder with a 5 amp fuse in it. Connect the lug and wire with the fuse protection to the powered buss in the electrical bay and feed the wire end up through the window. For those items that do not have power you could test them with this power source to see if they are operational with power.
In the end there is probably no avoiding physically tracing what the power source is by following wires or a schematic.
Later Ed
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I am very pleased to communicate to y'all that yesterday afternoon (Tuesday, July 9, 2013) with the help of a couple friends, and most especially after a quick phone chat with Ken at BCS, things started coming together.
The problem all along has been a lack of knowledge of where to find all the fuses, breakers, etc., to check on. Let me tell you this - they are everywhere! For example, we found fuses mid-coach in the basement above the pass-thru storage bay tucked away in junction boxes... boxes that are not able to be seen UNLESS you crawl into the bay and look up between the two major chassis support beams. But, those fuses were okay.
After chatting with Ken at BCS for five minutes, we learned there are two fuses just under a small removable four inch square plate on the generator. One of those fuses, a mini auto-style 15a (blue) fuse was blown. Now the generator starts.
Ken said the problem with the C-12 not starting is the transmission MUST report to the engine that it's in neutral. Remember, the transmission shift keypad would not light up. Under the keypad there is a black box, accessed by removing the vertical door that holds the map pocket. In that black box you will find fuses. One was blown. Now the keypad lights up and GUESS WHAT, the C-12 starts right up.
So... I still have a few issues. 1) The generator will not start from the inverter remote station above the passenger seat. But the generator will start from the three start buttons - one on the generator itself, one on the dashboard in front of the pilot's seat, and one at the side of the bed. 2) The air leveling keypad does not light up. Thus I am unable to level the coach using air. Notably, the travel light works on that keypad, but nothing else works on the keypad. 3) The Kenwood AM/FM/CD and screen, and the Cobra CB radio still are not getting power. My guess is somewhere there's more fuses needing to be found.
Hopefully, this morning I will find another black box containing fuses. I see another, smaller vertical access door just rear of the map pocket door under the transmission shift keypad. Beside that door is the CD magazine for the Kenwood, and above that door are both leveling keypads. I think I'll start there first.
While it's not whole yet, I feel like I'm on "final approach." And I'm quite confident that it's not San Francisco International I'm approaching. The key piece of information came from Ken at BCS. You just have to have knowledge of where all the fuses and breakers are located. Otherwise, without that knowledge, especially on a 45 foot coach, you could spend months searching. I have spent almost a week, off and on, looking per advice from many of you, and I felt I was running out of places to look.
Thank y'all for chiming in. I was bracing myself for a bill to have the coach towed, plus paying for a technician to fix the problems. I dodged a bullet here!! So far, the cost has been a $10 blade fuse, a $1 rectifier diode, and two auto-style fuses. Oh... and I gave the guy yesterday $50 for his couple hours help. He works for the local railroad and is a highly skilled electro-mechanical maintenance technician. He didn't want the $50. I had to shove it in his pocket. I do appreciate help... from wherever it comes. Just call me an equal opportunity "helpee."
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Hey David, glad to hear you are on the road to recovery, what a nightmare! the one thing I've learned from reading this thread is , be really , really careful not to reverse the polarity of the batteries.
good luck in correcting the rest of the small issues
Dave
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David,
This is good information for the rest of us. Sure wish there was an electrical page that people could post the location and function to, when they find fuses and breakers in odd places that work certain functions.
As far as the radio and CB many of those radio harnesses that get connected have inline fuses built in so you may want to get to the back of the radio and follow it back or if it is bundled cut the tie wrap and see if there is an obscure fuse holder in the bundle. Sometimes in an install they will cut the wire back and remove the fuse holder and rely on a remote fuse holder but most times not. Hopefully it just might be that simple.
So happy that things are coming along and it seems to be far less of an expense disaster than it could have been. Hope the last pieces of the puzzle fall into place for you.
Later Ed
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David,
Glad to hear you are back to normal (almost). Real learning experience for all of us. It's surprising how much is left off the wiring docs.
Steve
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I finally have everything done... I think. This was a long, learning month. In the end, to repair all the problems was not as expensive as I feared... actually, not even close to what I feared:
1. One ANL 200 amp blade fuse in the battery bay behind the BIRD and Big Boy access door - $10
2. One mini auto fuse in the generator - 50c
3. One auto fuse in the transmission module under the transmission keypad - 50c
4. Two auto fuses in the air leveling module in the front electrical bay - 50c each
5. One rectifier/diode on the ignition solenoid in the front electrical bay - $1
6. One mini auto fuse on main power going to the Kenwood behind the pilot's dashboard - 50c
7. Two mini auto fuses going to the Kenwood brain box behind the entry door handrail behind the co-pilot's dash - $1
8. One glass Buss fuse for the Cobra CB behind the pilot's dashboard - $1
9. A couple friends helping me one afternoon - paid one $50... had to force him to take it!
10. Stereo shop technician found the two blown fuses near the Kenwood brain box and one blown fuse for the Cobra CB - $50
11. Probably 75 miles of running around getting fuses - $20 fuel
12. Probably 60 hours of time looking, pondering, and talking on the phone asking for tips on where to look next.
13. And today my tank levels wouldn't report, so phoned Silverleaf in Albany... was told to find their TM-102 Silverleaf Coach Management Module (a small black box) to check its lights... ended up unplugging the main power plug from the box to reset it... now works fine. By the way, the TM-102 was found in the front electrical bay, not in the tank bay by the several Aladdin black boxes.
Soooo... what's that cost in cash? $135. But we had our wings clipped for a month. Just so you know, we are able to fly again, and fly we will within two weeks.
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Oh... and in this past month I had all the fluids/filters changed - engine, transmission, and generator; chassis lube; had to replace the alternator; replaced the serpentine belt; had the "30-point inspection"; had to replace a cracked spin-on fuel filter housing;... that's about it. $2,200. About half labor and half materials. $103 per hour.
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David,
So happy that you are back together. It would seem that most of the electronic items like the Kenwood and Cobra have protection diodes built in that conduct in the reverse direction and pass enough current to blow the fast acting fuses before the protection diodes fail. If you had really been able to bias the internal circuits with a 12V reverse polarity you would have fried a lot of semiconductors. You are a very lucky man indeed. Compliments to you and the techs for finding all those fuses. Sounds like many were not obvious. Did the reverse polarity take the alternator diode packs out and that was why it had to be changed?
Enjoy your next trip, you have earned it.
Later Ed
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Regarding the alternator: I figured there is a reason the chassis batteries were dead. I boondocked the prior weekend in Heppner three days while playing in its annual Men's Golf Tournament and those batteries acted fine when I departed Heppner on Sunday. At home on Monday through Wednesday the Marquis was plugged in, so the batteries should have been charged. But on Wednesday morning about 10 am the chassis batteries were dead enough to not turn over the engine. I think the alternator had been dysfunctional for weeks, and the batteries had been kept barely alive by intermittent shore and generator power.
Also, in this past month I learned that using a magnet on the retrofit device on the back of the Norcold fridge DOES INDEED reset it. The fridge worked fine after the battery changing debacle, but a week later, after flipping switches trying to test equipment, that fridge stopped working. On the back through the outside access panel there is a small box about the size of a pack of cigarettes - the retrofit device - that has an overly sensitive heat sensor. When it kicks out the fridge will not operate and the device shows a solid red light. Reading on here, and/or in the FMCA forum, I learned that you turn off the power to the fridge - both 12v and 120v - and run a strong magnet around the sides of the device. When the light goes out the device is reset. Don't ask me how the red light stays on when both the 12v and 120v power switches are off at the main panels.