BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Steve Adams on January 09, 2010, 04:52:42 AM
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After reading the numerous "can't start" threads I went to check our coach which we recently put in storage.
Being new to homes with motors it did not dawn on me to disconnect any of the batteries. When we checked today we could not find any mention of battery cut-off's or disconnects or isolators in any of the manuals nor could we find anything that looked like a switch in the battery compartment.
The coach (2001 Contessa 40" 330 CAT) has only been in storage 3-4 weeks and started right up so either we are lucky or there was nothing going on which would have drained the batteries, so we left it that way.
Should I go back and remove a cable? Would only 1 suffice or should I disconnect positive and negative terminals? Coach and chassis batteries?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Steve
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The battery disconnect switches on my Contessa are not in the battery compartment, but in the last compartment in the rear on the passenger side. There should be two switches, one for the chassis batteries and one for the house batteries.
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Robert, thanks for the reply. I was out there earlier today and only checked the electrical compartment and no switches. I did not think to look in the generator compartment (last compartment on mine).
Thanks again, Steve
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Still have questions. As Robert suggested I checked the last compartment on the passengers side and every other compartment, no battery cut-off switches. After rereading the owners manual I found this;
"There is a switch on your stairwell that cuts off the house batteries. By tripping this switch you can avoid draining these batteries. Be sure the batteries are charged beforehand. If the coach is stored for a short periond (two weeks or less) plug it into external power. This will retain a full charge on the coach batteries. For long term storage, be sure to disconnect the coach from external power and turn the battery cut-off switch to the OFF position."
I would have thought at least the owners manual would keep the names straight. So please help me out here.
What exactly are the coach batteries for?
What exactly are the chassis batteries for?
Which one of this is most likely the "house" battery?
If the owners manual lists a battery cut-off switch I have to assume there is one. Does anyone have a clue as to where it might be? Could it be inside the coach?
Worst case, can I just lift a red and black lead off both battery banks and call it good?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Steve
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What exactly are the coach batteries for? Your living quarter 12 volt power and the inverter.
What exactly are the chassis batteries for? Start the engine and genset.
Which one of this is most likely the "house" battery? Probably 6 volt (three caps per battery) and you have at least 4
If the owners manual lists a battery cut-off switch I have to assume there is one. Does anyone have a clue as to where it might be? Could it be inside the coach? Ours is a small switch to a solonoid at the entry door inside.
Worst case, can I just lift a red and black lead. Is an option but must recharge at least monthly.
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Richard, thanks for the quick reply and especially for the definitions.
I have a "Coach power" switch by the door as well. I was under the impression that it only controlled the output of the coach batteries and does not disconnect the chassis (starting) batteries. Is that correct?
Thanks again, Steve
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Steve-
"House batteries" is just another name for coach batteries. As Richard indicated, they are usually composed of four 6-volt batteries, sometimes called "golf cart" batteries, and are a deep cycle type; that is they are designed to allow many deep discharges and recharges without being significantly damaged. The house batteries provide 12 volt power (by the way they are wired together) to run such things as your interior lights and myriad accessories. Your two chassis batteries are 12 volts each and are basically designed to provide cranking amps for starting your engine and powering components necessary to the drive train operation and demands typical to regular automotive needs such as in your car. Unlike the coach ones, the chassis batteries do not survive well if deeply discharged. Not switching them off or disconnecting them means small parasitic drains of always-on electronic components can leave you with low engine cranking power after long term storage, and each such deep discharge shortens the life of chassis batteries.
The rocker switch by the door, at least in our '06 Beaver, merely serves to conveniently turn off most interior coach features so they don't unduly sap your house batteries if you're away for awhile. It does not disconnect the chassis batteries, and, as I understand it, it does not totally disconnect the entire coach side and is therefore not adequate for long term shut down/storage.
Our rig has 2 large rotary shutoff switches in the battery bay, one for the chassis set and one for the coach set. Those switches are the ones to use for long term storage. On your coach or any other I would presume them to be located in an exterior bay somewhere, and likely not far from the battery tray. Unfortunately I have to plead some ignorance of your model coach, though I'm sure there are other forum members with the same rig that will chime in and enlighten us. Gerald probably knows also.
Using cutoff switches for long term storage also positively protects against drain from an inadvertantly left-on accessory, and also keeps any as yet undiscovered short circuits from running things down.
If you are in Portland and want to see if I can help find the switches, send me an email.
Joel
Clackamas
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Joel, thanks for the detailed info on the battery system and the offer to come out and help me find the switch. I'm going to keep looking and if I still can't find it I'll give you a shout. I can't believe that there is one that is this well hidden! I guess no one ever thought a Beaver would be stored!!
Thanks again, Steve
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Steve,
My 2002 Patriot Thunder 40' (c-12) did not have a chassis battery cut-off switch. This was in spite of the fact that Monaco tech assist person assured me it did. Loren at Bend also said it had to have one but Steve (the chassis tech at Bend) said that indeed some coaches were built without them. I had one installed in the battery compartment and it made a big difference. Before it was installed I had to jump start after two weeks in covered storage. Before I had the switch installed I disconnected the ground cable and that seemed to save the battery.
John Fearnow
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Steve,
Today I looked at a 2002 Contessa here at Quartzsite to see where the battery cut off switch was located, and found to my surprise that it did not have one. Therefore I would say that there is a high probablity that your coach does not have one either since the 2001 and 2002 Contessas are almost identical.
Gerald
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I suspected your coach might not have a cutoff, but didn't want to believe it. That being the case, Steve, you might want to get over to Troutdale or Wilsonville Camping World and pick up a couple switches, one for your chassis set and one for the coach set. I put simple scissor type disconnects on our old gas Pace Arrow's batteries decades ago - it's a simple job that made storage easy, and additionally I used a Battery Minder to keep all the batteries charged and conditioned. Our Beaver coach doesn't require those applications. The open-air scissor disconnects can spark a bit when opened or closed, so I wasn't nuts about them being so close to the battery caps.
You could go with scissor disconnects at the battery posts or buy rotary switches and mount them in the battery bay; the enclosed heavy-duty rotary switches will involve a bit more effort and cost, but will not spark and will more nearly emulate new coach design.
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John, Gerald and Joel, it's easy to understand why this is such a great forum! Thanks to everyone for your help. I was hoping someone would say, did you look here and that would be it but I do believe that you guys hit the nail on the head, there isn't one! We're deciding now who to take it to and when to do it. Most likely camping world in March or April. We'll head out every 10-14 days in the mean time and fire her up just to keep everything topped off.
Thanks again for your assistance, Steve
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Steve-
If your storage is outside and you have a solar panel, that can help keep the batteries up. It certainly does for my rig parked by our home during the summer. I do notice some drop in voltage (shown on our inverter/charger control panel) as more cloudy Portland winter weather and shortened days take over, so I winterize things and plug the coach into AC then, and put an electric dehumidifier and a couple Dri-Z-Air units inside.
If your storage isn't configured to allow plugging in, as it sounds, just check your digital panel or Aladdin to monitor battery voltage. Barring that option, take a small voltmeter with you to storage and check the voltage directly off the battery banks after a week or two, just to be sure there isn't some significant parasitic drain going on. The reason I say that is that if you don't want to attempt a rotary switch install by yourself, I'd rather see you take your rig over the mountain to Bend after snow season and let them do it. Camping World can do it, but my experience is they can muff even a relatively simple job - depends on which tech you get. Though probably more expensive, the great team at Beaver Coach Sales/Service Center will not only do the job right, they'll help you fully understand your system. Since it sounds like your DC electric system is storing just fine so far, I see no rush to get this job done, and would rather see you get it done properly over at Bend if you can. As long as you're taking the rig out regularly this winter, you'll be just fine battery-wise anyway, so just get it done at your convenience this summer the next time you get over that way (but call for an appointment). You and I are very fortunate to live so close to the finest and most reliable motorhome service facility there is, so why not take advantage of it.
You are certainly welcome to come by anytime and I'll try to answer first hand on our coach any questions that come up, and demonstrate any system you're unsure of; though our rigs our somewhat dissimilar. I'd be happy to come and try to decipher anything on your own coach, so don't be afraid to ask. I'm by no means an expert after only 3 years with our diesel Beaver, but have been motor homing for 25 years and often have been-there-dun-that. I also can recommend a local mobile tech for "emergencies".
Nevertheless, you are correct in that this Forum is a great resource, with plenty of experienced people eager to help when the inevitable problem crops up.
Joel
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Joel, thanks for all the advice and offers for assistance. It seems that every day I learn there is even more stuff I don't know about this coach. I had thought about going to Bend to get the work done as I've got a short list of items that need to be addressed so I think that's what I'll do as soon as the snow melts!
I do have another electrical question. My inverter control panel inside the coach is beeping and flashing a "warning" light. If the "Coach Power" switch is off where would the inverter be getting power from? I've turned off every breaker I can find with no change. Any ideas?
Thanks again, Steve
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Hmm. Not sure about the warning light. If your Coach Power switch is off, that only cuts off the basic 12 v. features inside the house portion of your rig. It doesn't take your inverter offline. Pending input from Gerald or others, more familiar with your model and year, I'll have to check my manual to see what might be going on with your "warning" issue. Most likely it is a low voltage alert, but I can't be certain.
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Regarding the flashing light you might try just turning the inverter\charger off, wait 10 seconds or so then turn it back on again. Wouldn't hurt to turn off and\or unplug TVs and any other 'always on' appliances before doing this.
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Steve,
Try pushing the flashing warning light button on the inverter panel. On mine, this stops the beeping, but the flashing light continues for a while, then resets and the charger resumes. This sems to happen when the charger is working near 100 amps after the batteries have been drawn down. That is my solution.
Larry
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Steve,
Not sure which inverter you have but it sounds like a Prosine with the LED remote panel. About once every month or two I get an error alarm and the blinking LED. I have tried to get an error code following the procedure in the manual but repeatedly none is stored. This error is a very random event. The only way I can get my system to reset is to first disconnect the AC, using the main power cord or main breaker, and then disconnect both battery + leads (house and chassis). I have battery switches in my case so it is quick and easy. Wait 30 seconds and then reconnect the batteries followed by turning the AC supply to the coach back on. Important....always be sure that the batteries are connected before you power up the inverter/charger by supplying AC to it.
It would appear that there is some logic that gets hung up that cannot be reset at the panel. It may be stray RF or an inductive kick getting to some sense line or into the microcomputer in the unit that hangs it up. Once hung up, the logic is stuck and will need to be rebooted by dropping all power sources. At any rate, this procedure seems to repeatedly work and recover the problem immediately. Hope this helps.
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Steve-
It appears your model is somewhat different than mine. My Magnum Energy, Inc., MS Series Inverter/Charger has a "Fault" lamp that lights, with no beep I've ever heard. The unit goes to Fault mode to protect itself, appliances, and batteries when normal operating parameters are transgressed, such as low batteries, high batteries, AC or DC overload, or excessive inverter heat.
I would heed the posts from others re. resetting your unit. You might do an online search for your brand and model of inverter/charger, and try to obtain an owner's manual for it by mail or download and print a pdf of it. The manufacturer may offer other assistance by email or phone as well.
Joel