BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Paul Champagne on November 16, 2013, 03:40:47 PM
-
Hello All
Just wondering if anyone has done any air filter and exhaust mods to their Cat C13 -525 engine? If so did it improve the torque and mileage as I am averaging only 5.8 mpg at 60 mph in my Thunder also seems to be lacking in power...
Any suggestions or comments would help
Thanks
Paul
-
Paul,
Monaco did not equip all C-13s with the same intake systems. Your question can be answered more accurately if you give the year model of your coach.
Gerald
-
Hi Gerald
Model is 2006 Patriot Thunder hope that helps 44ft 11'
Thanks
Paul
-
Hello when I bought my new to me 2005 Thunder couple years ago it came with a modified air intake system and a high performance muffler. Power seems good mileage is little low in 6 MPG range. from what I gather from previous owner that intake and muffler did make unit run and increased power. After I changed to a new clean air cleaner I got another MPG so I getting around 6 or so MPG but we are heavy big power and we get what we get..
-
Paul,
The intake system on the 2005 Thunder was badly undersized. However, from what I understand about the 2006 model Thunder, the intake system was adequate with the exception of the air cleaner itself. The most common correction for this problem is to use the air cleaner from the 2007 Marquis with the C-15 engine.
The exhaust system on the C-13 has the same problem that the exhaust on all coaches has, it has to be somewhat restrictive to quiet the engine down to the level that luxury coach owners expect. A straight through design muffler will give you a little better performance and slightly better mileage, but the increase in engine noise, especially with the Jake Brake on, may be more than some owners will accept.
Gerald
-
Gerald,
Is this a direct swap or does there have to be some modifications to use the c15 filter?
I too think there is too much restriction as i just changed my filter after 8k miles put in a new one and the gauge shows it half.
Jeff
-
Jeff,
I think that it takes very little if any modification to the intake system on your coach to go to the C-15 filter, but I am not sure. Maybe an owner who has made the change can answer the question, or I will research it next week and get back to you.
Gerald
-
Thanks Gerald,
Can someone with a c15 in a 06 and newer Coach provide the air filter part number. I should be able to look up and see what differences there a between the c13 and the c15 filter.
As a side note, the air filter on the 05 is the same on as on the 07, significantly easier install though.
I thought it would be easier to research this on the web and while I can get a lot of info, not the exact info I need. The Donaldson site is too large with too many variables to get the right match.
Jeff
-
The mechanic at Redland RV Performance suggest I change my exhaust from 4 : to 5" and also change to the new style K&N HIGH FLOW AIR FILTER will improvr torque and supposedly better mileage not sure if will here the increased noise in the Coach that's what I am concerened about...
-
I posted the query on the diesel forum (used to be CatRV) and Brett Wolfe mentioned that a better filter from different (larger) motor is a good option. He also suggested to look at the space available and maybe there is a better filter combination available that OTR trucks may be using. He mentions to also look at the piping from the inlet to the filter and from the filter to the turbo. Maybe this a project to delve into when I the MH will be sitting for a few months, I.e. latter this winter once I am down south. Need to check out the other park residents to see if there are any ex-cat engineers :)
Paul, others with far more knowledge than I may chime in, but from what I have read K&N get more flow because they have a larger micron opening, thereby possibly letting in more dirt - not a good thing. Maybe their newer filters are better?
Jeff
-
I only have a C-9 but I have seen changes on the larger engines go with a larger diameter filter. They had to modify the two brackets by extending the straps. Beaver owner Dale Elly made that change to his 45' Marquis and claimed he could go farther climbing a hill before it down shifted. Not sure if he is still active as he had to to go back to work. I also had to modify my intake but I went overboard and I am very happy.
-
Ok I went with the 5" exhaust and K&N air filter on my Coach last spring and it does make a little difference on my 06 Thunder especially with the Jake on it is louder but not loud enough to bother you in the Coach, as far as performance it is better on the hills but still could use a performance chip for those long steep grades. The mileage up and down I5 is just under 6 mpg at 60 mph so happy that I did the change.
Thanks
Paul
-
My coach already has 5" exhaust and am thinking about going to the C-15 air filter and clean up the intake air box a little. I would not run a K & N filter on anything. Contrary to what KN says they pass way too much dirt. Cat will run you off if you show up with one of these filters.
Now I get 6-6.5 mpg.
Attached filter test report.
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
-
While at Brazel's Performance RV in Centralia, Wa we met a fellow RVer who was having the performance chip put in his DP 40 ft. with 3 slides. After this he did the Alaska trip and was amazed at the MPG and performance increase. I had a chance to follow him in our SUV for some distance and I must say....'dang". I had to work tokeep up.
I do believe that improved air in and exhaust is a good first step.
-
Further to Lee's comments on the K&N Filters for the RV Diesel industry their filters do not require oil see comments from K&N Website
A Washable Heavy Duty Air Filter
K&N has developed a line of washable commercial grade air filters designed specifically for large turbo diesel engines, class 6-8 over-the-road trucks, agricultural and earth moving equipment, and diesel motorhomes. Built with the unique characteristics of turbo diesel engines in mind, these air filters do not require the use of oil and can be easily cleaned with power sprayers or commercial parts washers. The filters are also designed to provide lower restriction and higher air flow, while delivering exceptional filtration efficiency, and extended service lives.
Washable and Reusable
K&N HD air filters can be easily cleaned and reused to reduce the cost of replacing air filters. These "depth-loading" air filters feature our washable "lofted" hybrid air filtration medium. They do not require any oil and are robust enough to be cleaned with pressure washers and standard truck washing equipment. Most other heavy duty air filters are built into the canister as a complete non-serviceable unit; the filter and canister must be replaced dirty at the end of a single service interval. A K&N reusable HD filter will reduce the cost of buying disposable filters and canisters over and over. Perhaps even better, when restriction builds beyond a desired level, just wash the filter. So instead of short cycling expensive disposable air filters, keep restriction down and horsepower up with K&N.
-
Everyone has their own preference in air cleaners, but from all of the filtration studies that I have read, you could not pay me to run a K&N air filter. They just do not filter well enough for me.
Gerald
-
The best filter on the market for the least restriction over the life of the filter is the Donaldson Endurance Filter. It uses Nano Fiber technology to hold the dirt particles that tend to block the filter media away from the filter face. It also has the least passing of contaminants through the filter of any commercial filter, that is, it has the highest cleaning efficiency.
These engines have tight tolerances between the cylinder wall, rings, and pistons. Intake of dust particles causes wear and we are talking engines worth $25K. When the engine uses millions of cubic feet of air over the filter life you should understand that small changes in filter efficiency means large changes in contaminants getting into the cylinders. K+N air filters, simply put, are inadequate filtration for a diesel engine application.
We can all relate to this..... do you remember when your old vacuum cleaner had a cloth bag and half the dirt you sucked in blew out the other end. What happened when you went to a vacuum that used a hepa filter? Huge difference in capture rate. Now if you have ever used a shop vac to pick up sheet rock dust or other fine dust? The good pleated hepa type filters plug up very quickly losing suction. The filter is doing its job. The same issue exists in our air filter which is why the Donaldson Endurance filter is a much better filter design. It captures much of the contaminants above the main filter media so it does not plug the main media as fast.
The next time you have to go down a dirt road or a dry dusty campground road, look in the mirror at the back of your RV. Clouds of dust and dirt that are so thick that you cannot see through it is being sucked into the air cleaner. Why would you ever expect a K+N air cleaner, that if you hold up it to the sun and can see through it, to keep that kind of dirt out. The most important problem isn't air restriction it is filter efficiency by far. Listen to Gerald and watch this video from Donaldson. He knows more about engines then most all of us put together...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTnoy49TwQ4
Later Ed
-
Well said Gerald and Ed, K&N puts out loads of hype about how good their filters are but all the tests I have came across prove different, and also Cat says no way. I have also read test where there is basically no difference between a good air filter and none at all. I usually don't put a lot of trust in the air filter vacuum gauge, by the time that thing hits yellow your filter is usually long past needing replaced.
If your so worried about air flow modify and go with a larger filter not a K & N. With my Patriot Thunder going to the C15 filter is a easy mod all you have to do is mod the mounting a little, but Cat says this filter is plenty large enough. Might be a project for next winter but not high on the do list.