BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Stan Simpson on March 09, 2014, 05:04:57 AM
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Yesterday, out of the clear blue, the entry step on our coach refused to retract, even with the key in the ignition, and turned on. I checked under the step for loose wires, and found none. The wiring diagram in the owner's manual for the SCS/Frigette shows two inline fuses, one for the switch and one for the power supply. I looked for them, but don't know where they are. I cleaned the contacts on the door and the door frame.
I took out the circuit breakers from the electrical bay for the step and the step switch. I purchased a replacement for the 20A breaker at O'Reilly Auto Parts, but they, and Advance Auto, and Auto Zone didn't have the 05A breaker for the step switch. Does anyone know where I can purchase the 05A breaker?
I did some research and found that the step motor is the same as a window lift motor on a 1995 Ford Taurus. Its readily available at NAPA and other auto parts stores for around $45 to $60.
I have no idea how to trouble shoot this problem. Are the breakers testable (is that a word?) to see if they are good?
Thanks in advance for any replies and suggestions.
Stan
I have done some more research...online...and found this. Will this work?
http://www.ttiinc.com/page/search_results.html?s=566414028_24
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Stan, the breaker can be tested for continuity with a meter. If it is good reinstall and check for voltage at the motor. Before purchasing the motor try removing it and bench test. Sometimes everything that moves just needs lubrication. If you find the motor needs replacing you'll have it with you at Napa Auto.
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Thank you, Jim. I have a volt meter but no idea what setting to use to test the breakers? 12V? Just touch each post with the ground and hot?
Stan
Edit: To test the breakers, do I have to reinstall them? I assume there has to be a power supply? I'm looking at the analog VM that I have. There is a group of settings on one side labeled DCV. The choices are 10A, 50A, 250, and 500A. I would use the 50 setting?
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Jim,
You can set your meter on twelve volts. Put the black to ground and the red to one side of the breaker and then the other.
Both sides should show voltage.
Or it can be disconnected and removed and put meter on ohms the black to,one side red to other side to if it ohms out. Meter should peg. To see what it should read just touch black and red together.
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Tom,
Thank you for your response. I have no idea about this meter. Here is a picture. On the setting you see, I took the meter leads and touched the posts of an un-installed circuit breaker. I don't know which post is the hot and ground. One post is copper and the other is silver. In any case, there was no response from the meter. Am I doing something wrong?
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If you're like me with my electrical know-how, then you probably need to put a fresh battery in your tester. I use mine maybe once a year, maybe even once every couple years.
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Turn it to the OHM setting and touch leads together, if if does not respond, change the batteries.
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Did that, and needle pegged way over on both breakers I took out. I guess the motor is the next object to check. Thank you all. :)
Stan
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I had to replace the magnetic switch in the door frame on mine. Easy fix. You can test the switch by pulling it out and crossing the leads. If the step retracts. The switch is bad. If not it's probably the motor or controller. Be sure you have the master step switch on. Hope that helps.
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Also,
Make sure the magnet (opposite of the magnet switch) is there and in the correct position. Before I purchased anything else, I would also check the ground wire to the frame near the steps. My steps stopped working and all I had to do was clean the ground wire and the frame where it attached and everything was fine. It gets really dirty and rusty there.
Dennis
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I just have a hard time crawling under the coach with no jack stands. I used the manual air leveling to raise the front end enough so I could look under there, but I don't want to crawl under there without assurance that it won't come down on me.
That said, I found the ground wire (green) and it feels like it is connected solid. I wiggled it a little with no result.
Is this the magnet switch you speak of, Dennis? If it is, I can try the crossing the leads that you suggested.
Thanks,
Stan
Oops...it was Tom's idea about the leads on the magnet switch.
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Stan,
It is dark, so I can't take a picture. On my motorhome the switch you photographed was for a non existent accessory. The magnetic switch was on the other side of the door and is round. When I had trouble a few years ago I waived a magnet over it and the door worked. Adjustments and some glue to hold the switch in the right spot made it work again.
Bill
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Stan,
I think the magnet switch may be on the inside of the door frame and looks like what might be used in an alarm system. One side has the magnet, the door side, and the reed switch is under a plastic cover on mine on the frame. There are different styles so this is an educated guess. Might look like this..
http://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Sensor-Window-Warning-Switch/dp/B0050N7SM0
Later Ed
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Ed and Bill,
I had a magnetic switch on the Endeavor like the one shown in the link. Our Beaver has no such switch on the door. I took a magnet and ran it up and down the door frame, and there was nothing.
The switch I took a picture was not magnetic.
Still working on it.
Stan
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Stan,
Sometimes these switches are round and are right in the door frame, a magnet on the door and a round sensor on the frame. I would hunt around with a small piece of steel (screw driver tip maybe) and see if you can sense a magnet on the door somewhere. If you cannot then look for a pushbutton switch on the hinged jamb. I think what you took photographs of are the contactors that power the electric lock solenoid.
Later Ed
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Stan,
This can be very frustrating. Our step motor was "hanging up" in a certain bad spot in the windings that would cause it to stop retracting. I had to use a rubber mallet to tap the step causing it to move out of the bad spot and start retracting again. It'll continue to work, as it should, until the motor stops again in the bad spot.
Good Luck,
Gary
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Thank you Ed. I saw these before and thought THEY were the lock controls. Anyway, when I was scanning the door frame with a magnet, I got no hit, but when I scanned the ones on the door itself...VOILA! It is a magnet!
Its too dark now, but I will take it apart tomorrow.
Stan
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Stan,
When you use your meter on OHMS, do not touch the leads to any energized (hot) circuit. When you are through measuring OHMS, switch the meter to OFF, so you do not forget and use the leads to measure voltage. Measuring Voltage with the meter set on OHMS can ruin your meter.
Larry
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Depending on which step you have, there is a controller in the electric lines that reverses the motor to retract/extend the step. You should have 12 volts hot to the controller and a good ground, then there is the door switch which on my coach makes a solid ground, and the open/close wires that tells it what to do. First check to see that you have a good ground and a 12 volt hot wire to the controller, then check to see that the magnetic switch is making a ground. If all seems good, run a hot wire to the motor to see if it is working, if all those check out, you need a controller. The problem usually turns out to be the controller.
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Update:
I finally gave up with my limited knowledge and ability and called a mobile tech here in the New Orleans area. He spent an hour and a half and found this:
The three re-settable breakers work and have power.
The motor is good.
The controller is good.
The on and off switch on the inside of the coach works.
He was able to switch the leads on the motor to get the step to retract. However, there is no reaction when he put a magnet to the door switch. He concluded the problem is a broken wire or blown in line fuse. Neither of which he could find. He called Monaco tech support, gave them my coach # and they are going to email him the wiring diagram for our coach so he can find where the inline fuses are. He left and will be back later today or tomorrow morning. No charge...yet.
He promised to send me a copy of the wiring diagram.
I will report further developments.
Thanks all for your help.
Stan
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Emailed you the schematic, but as usual it won't tell you where the fuses are. It shows connectors, but not where they are.
I presume he checked for a solid ground of the switch in the door frame, and the function of the switch itself. The wire in question connects to the controller's brown one, and should be marked 129. It may be that if the fuse to the switch isn't in the controller itself, a tech at Beaver Coach Sales would know where it is and be glad to help with a phone call. If you know where the controller is and where the switch is, which you do, any fuse has to be along 129 between them.
Joel
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Did he say whether there was power to the controller? On mine, the controller is located inside the frame rails, directly behind the step itself. How did he test the controller if it didn't have power? Assuming he used the power and ground wires under the coach too activate the motor and retract the step, that would indicate to me that there is no problem with the fuses. If there is a continuity change in the up wires when the magnetic door switch is opened/closed, and there is power to the controller, and the motor works, it almost has to be the controller, unless the wiring from the switch inside is bad.
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The controller power doesn't come through the door switch, so the other functions could be checked and were.
If I'd narrowed it down to the magnetic switch, I'd have removed the switch from the door frame and checked the connections, including and especially the ground. With circuit breakers in the system, I'm not sure there is a fuse to look for involving that switch. I've heard of magnet side problems before, but that's not happening here since the switch failed the manual magnet test. I don't know that it would've taken me an hour and a half to check all this, and still not have examined the switch and mounting.
Joel
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Turns out the mobile tech in Louisiana never got the wiring schematic he needed, and by the time I found out, I had to leave for the Memphis area.
I have talked to a guy here who says he is very familiar with the step we have, and in his experience its almost certainly the controller box. He is going to try to get one by next Tuesday when we leave for Nashville.
Stan
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Update on step issue:
Waited until today for a mobile tech to come out to the RV Park, as he was certain the problem was the control board. He had to order one. Anyway, found that the control box is good, the motor is good, and all electrical circuits are good.
Quickly discovered the problem is the magnet sensors. He attached a set of Kwikee step magnets in line and the step worked. Unfortunately, the magnets he had are not for a Coach Step like I have.
The tech installed a temporary switch in the wheel well. I can use it to retract the step for travel, until I can order and receive the correct magnets. It appears that even I may be able to install them myself. Doesn't seem too difficult.
He told me the magnets can only be ordered through dealers. Yes? Does anyone have a source?
Thanks,
Stan
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Check with Beaver Coach Sales parts dept., Stan.
This seems weird to me... How does a magnet go faulty? Or by magnet sensors you mean the door frame unit I warned about?
Joel
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lolol Joel - I was wondering the same thing, but was afraid to ask. It must be our great OSU experience that leads us to the same question, eh? Is it an electromagnet? Naaaaaa, can't be!
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David,
Recheck or replace the ground wire. Somewhere it may be broken or the connection to the frame may be bad.
Larry
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The magnets themselves do not go bad but the reed relay switch usually housed in glass can over time develop bad contacts or have the metal lose its physical characteristics such that it no longer opens and closes as a switch with the magnetic forces involved. They can just wear out....
This may be the one.
http://www.amazon.com/Kwikee-905327000-Round-Switch-Magnetic/dp/B003VASLM0
Later Ed
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I called Beaver Coach Sales and spoke to Mike in parts. They have my magnets in stock, and are shipping to me today. I will update the results of the installation.
Stan