BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Gary Carver on April 21, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
-
My cruse control on a 2005 Beaver will not turn on------It was working fine and we stopped for fuel and when we continued on it would not turn on----when you turn on the cruse it says on on the Aladdin screen---no matter how many tines i push the steering button it always says off----i noticed a box in the electrical compartment called smart wheel and wiggled all the wires---anyway if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated. Thanks Gary Carver
-
Jake brake on?
-
thanks but I thought of that to----found a thread on about page 28 with a scheumatic on the smart wheel which controles the cruse
-
Just wondering... does your cruise control button work to allow you to step up the engine RPM while parked? Just wondering if that secondary function of the button is also not working.
-
Gary,
I hope you find a solution as I have the same problem. I find that if I persist in pressing on/off and set for several minutes it will usually, eventually turn 'on'. I haven't as yet identified the secret sequence.
Bob
-
The smart wheel controles all functions with the cruse and if it won't come on nothing works----i need tom do more checking but think it could be the smart wheel control box in the electrical compartment----will let everyone know when i get a chance to work on it so stay tuned
-
The cruise control indication on the Alladin in my 06 Monterey did not show "on" when I turned the cruise on. Nevertheless, when I hit the cruise "set" button, the cruise control worked and the "on" indicator light came on in somewhat belated fashion. PITA but the cruise did work.
Brad Burgess
-
On my '05 Thunder when you turn the engine off, it resets the cruise to off.When you start the engine the cruise will STILL be off. When you then push the "ON' button, nothing will happen - no indications , no constant speed - nothing. UNTIL you push the set button THEN the Alladin will indicate cruise on. If while you are waiting for the Cruise on light you get anxious (as I have) and push the off button hoping to reset, when you push the on button nothing happens again until you push the set button. and sometimes that will not allow the cruise to come on.Because you have turned the cruise off via the wheel button, sometimes I have found you have to turn off the engine and restart to reprogram the cruise. ?? Sometimes these things have a mind of their own :)
-
Ah, the secret sequence. I think you describe my dilemma to a tee. I'll have to work on my patience. Thank you...
-
Funny! I was just going to post the same problem. Cruise wouldn't work on test drive before I picked up coach. When I picked it up they said it was because the exhaust break was on. On the way home it would not work. To be honest I'm not sure how the switch for the break works. The CAT operations book says that it is a 3 position switch, low, med and hi breaking. It is a 3 switch, so how do you turn it off?
I saw the prep guy at the dealer use the cruise controls to set the engine on high idle also. Now I can't reproduce that either. Don't mean to hijack the thread but sounds like same problem. I'll try the procedure above but any other ideas would be appreciated also. One more thing...where are all these fuses I keep hearing about, can't see any in the electrical bay on the port side forward of the front tire? Are there any "Cruise on" lights on the dash? Thanks
-
Hey Jerry: 1st - there are NO cruise on lights on the dash. -only the Aladdin. I'm not sure what your operations book is saying but on mine ("05 Thunder ) the brake switch for the Jake Brake is in fact 3 position but the center position is "OFF". There are in fact only two position for the JAke Hi and LO. My understanding is low position opens just 3 of the exhaust valves and HI opens all six. (I'm open to corrections) When the Jake is on , an indication on the dash will show it is ON - not necessarily"operating". It is basically "armed" and will "capture when the braking is called for i.e. the foot brake is applied or the engine revs call for it.
-
neil ----the jake brake can be driven with it on all the time and will not come on until you let off the throtel all the way----it has no effect on the cruse----i drive that way all the time because if you need to stop fast the jake break will help before you could reach over and turn it on----if you are driving with the cruse on and go to stop quick when you hit the brake the throtle goes to off and the jake comes on.
-
Gary,
The latter model coaches operate the way that you described, but the earlier model coaches do not. None of the SMC era or early Monaco coaches will engage the cruise control if the Jake Brake switch is in the on position, regardless of throttle position.
Gerald
-
My cruise will engage with the Jake on as well. I don't do this intentionally and don't realize I do until I let off the throttle. I believe the coach manual advises not doing this. Or I read about it elsewhere. Not good when you are doing 65mph and you see the tach spike over 2 grand.
I know, ... the tranny isn't suppose to allow that...however.......
-
As Gerald says, there are different systems, both made by Monaco. When we had a 2003 Holiday Rambler Endeavor, the cruise would not come on if the exhaust brake was turned on and engaged first. If it was not on, the cruise could be set, but once the exhaust brake was on and applied, the cruise would not resume. I figured out that if I pulled over, or at the next rest stop for fuel or just a break, if I shut off the exhaust brake, then the engine, the cruise control would come on and set after re-starting the engine.
The Beaver runs with both the exhaust brake on and the cruise control on at the same time, and if the exhaust brake is applied, the cruise will still resume. Or if the exhaust brake is on, and applied or not, the cruise can still be turned on and set.
Stan
-
So...with the jake brake in the middle its off? Cruise may or may not come on with the brake on? Now I'm confused, I think? In any case I can't get the cruise to come on and I can't figure how to get it in high idle. Any thoughts?
-
Jeremy, on mine middle is off, and to raise idle just rev engine a bit a set cruise. Not sure how yours works.
-
On my '08 Thunder, I can drive with the couch on cruise control on only with the engine brake in the off position. As soon as I turn the engine brake on to either position, the cruise control no longer functions. If the engine brake switch is turned on, I can not set the cruise control to on.
-
Just a quick note here. Make sure the foot brake switch is not sticking. If so, cruise will not engage.
Dennis
-
Just a quick note here. Make sure the foot brake switch is not sticking. If so, cruise will not engage.
Dennis
would the brake lights be on all the time if the switch was sticking? Thinking yes.
-
Anybody know where fuses, if any, are located for the cruise control? Other functions of the smart wheel work still.
-
On my '05 Thunder when you turn the engine off, it resets the cruise to off.When you start the engine the cruise will STILL be off. When you then push the "ON' button, nothing will happen - no indications , no constant speed - nothing. UNTIL you push the set button THEN the Alladin will indicate cruise on. If while you are waiting for the Cruise on light you get anxious (as I have) and push the off button hoping to reset, when you push the on button nothing happens again until you push the set button. and sometimes that will not allow the cruise to come on.Because you have turned the cruise off via the wheel button, sometimes I have found you have to turn off the engine and restart to reprogram the cruise. ?? Sometimes these things have a mind of their own :)
Didn't work for mine. Alladin indicated cruise "ïnactive" but showed a set speed of 60.5 mph. It would not set no matter what I did. I even tried to go to fast idle before we left. No go! Any idea where fuse is?
-
If the brake lights work okay and the cruise control does show that it's set on the Alladin but it doesn't engage, on my coach that would make me suspicious of Relay K4, the Cruise Control Cancel relay. I see no diagrammed fuses or circuit breakers that would likely be involved, nor is there such an animal listed on my electrical bay legend. That said, there are two circuit breakers for the entire VIP ECU - on mine they are CB 2 and CB 25; if one of them was out, I'd not expect anything on your Smart Wheel to work, and you say that they do.
Your model rig could easily be configured differently, especially with regard to assigned relay numbers. The glitch could also be in the Smart Wheel switchpad or the VIP electronic control module (which has 4 of its own internal relays) as others here may attest. I and others can also vouch that relays can go belly up. At least I'd check that all my relay connections in the electrical bay were clean and solid.
Joel
-
If the brake lights work okay and the cruise control does show that it's set on the Alladin but it doesn't engage, on my coach that would make me suspicious of Relay K4, the Cruise Control Cancel relay. I see no diagrammed fuses or circuit breakers that would likely be involved, nor is there such an animal listed on my electrical bay legend. That said, there are two circuit breakers for the entire VIP ECU - on mine they are CB 2 and CB 25; if one of them was out, I'd not expect anything on your Smart Wheel to work, and you say that they do.
Your model rig could easily be configured differently, especially with regard to assigned relay numbers. The glitch could also be in the Smart Wheel switchpad or the VIP electronic control module (which has 4 of its own internal relays) as others here may attest. I and others can also vouch that relays can go belly up. At least I'd check that all my relay connections in the electrical bay were clean and solid.
Joel
Thanks Joel, I'll try to find the relays. Still real new at this!
-
Update: Our inaugural cruise was this weekend. Short trip from Orlando to KOA St Augustine. Tried every way I could think of to get the cruise to work on the way up...no way! Had a good trip, learned a lot but no mishaps or broke stuff! While coming home today, just for giggles, while watching the Aladdin, I activated the cruise. Aladdin said "activated" and it was actually working! Did it 3 or 4 times and it worked great even with the exhaust brake on. Now I notice that I'm coming up on a car pretty quick so I touch the brake, then cram on the brake. Cruise is not disengaging but trying to maintain speed in-spite of me pushing the brake for all I'm worth. Luckily I thought of the off switch at this point and all is well and the beaver is not sporting a new 3000 lb hood ornament. Anyway, brake pedal switch or relay sticking? What do you think? Thanks in advance.
Jerry
-
Still sounds like a bad Cancel Cruise relay, Jerry, but I'm far from an expert. Since this has now seriously become a safety issue, I'd forgo turning the CC on at all until you get input by contacting 1) Vehicle Improvement Products http://www.vipwheels.com/technical-support
2) Monaco or 3) Ken at Beaver Coach Sales 1-800-382-2597
In DC electrics, intermittent operation is commonly a sign of a bad connection, not a short circuit somewhere - in that case a breaker would have blown (like the fuse you were looking for). That's why I suggested a corroded or sloppy relay connection, but in electronics like this where there are multiple control modules involved, like the engine, tranny, and the VIP ECU itself, there are numerous possibilities, not to mention one of the Smart Wheel switches or something.
Just after our marriage in 1980, my wife piled her two daughters into our month-old Honda and headed east on I-84 to visit relatives in Idaho. When she opted for a break at Rufus and got on the downhill off-ramp, when she touched the brake the Cruise Control wouldn't shut off. At the ramp bottom she could not stop, crossed the cross-street, swerved to avoid a crossing Class C motorhome so she couldn't go up the freeway on-ramp on the other side, and rammed nearly head-on into the guard rail on the other side of the cross-street. I nearly lost my entire new family, and the car was totaled. Tough little bugger though, that '80 Accord; we replaced it with an '81 Accord since its impact system saved our family (the cruise control was the dealer's fault, not Honda's, although we didn't put CC on the second car). Forgive me if I don't trust cruise controls, although they are much more sophisticated now. Separating the engine from the transmission was not something that occurred to my wife in her panic, but we now know it probably would have saved the day - as it might have saved some of the Toyota fiascos in recent years.
So you see why I hope you simply stop using the cruise control until the pro's weigh in or fix it. I do use the cruise on all our rigs now days, but with special due concern, perhaps some faith that modern ones are more reliable, and options in the back of my mind in case the system fails to shut off when it should. Together with other practices, the CC prevents the relatively unsteady human foot from micro-wasting fuel over long hauls. The wife rarely if ever uses the cruise control on any rig, but doesn't get nervous when I do.
Joel
-
Joel, once I figured out what was happening I was done with it. It's too dangerous to use. The more I think about it the more I think its a sticky relay. I worked in electronics in the Navy for 20 yrs so although a long time ago I do have some experience. I am home now and I have the wiring diagrams of the smart wheel and the coach so I have a good chance of figuring it out. The high idle function gives me the perfect way of testing it without actually having to drive it. Thanks for your concern and your help. I'll let you know what I find or if I decide to let the pros fix it.
Jerry
-
Jerry
We are having the same problem with our Contessa. It is really scary when the brake doesn't cancel the cruise control?
This happened to us on our way home from Florida in early April. I reported the problem here on the forum but I have yet to get it fixed.
Please keep me posted if you find the solution to the cruise problem.I will be following the forum as I have been unable to find any solution yet on mine. Thanks.
Dan
-
After talking to the service manager at BCS in Oregon he thinks it is a relay so we have an appointment in August and I will let everyone know the outcome so stay tuned.
-
My navy experience is coming back to me after buying our new Beaver. I was an Electronic Warfare Technician. I've been trouble shooting electrical problems, with Gerald's help.
The cruise control was not working so I put some good old Navy know how to work. One of the things a navy tech learns early is that the vibrations of a ship at sea causes all kinds of things to vibrate loose even if held solidly in place. I started banging"really tapping"on relays with my little hammer I use to work on guns. Now my cruise control works fine in the high idle mode. Still won't trust the cruise on the road but now at least I know that it was a sticking relay. Now to figure out which one.
So Dan and Gary here's my update. We'll see how long my Navy repair lasts.
-
My navy experience is coming back to me after buying our new Beaver. I was an Electronic Warfare Technician. I've been trouble shooting electrical problems, with Gerald's help.
The cruise control was not working so I put some good old Navy know how to work. One of the things a navy tech learns early is that the vibrations of a ship at sea causes all kinds of things to vibrate loose even if held solidly in place. I started banging"really tapping"on relays with my little hammer I use to work on guns. Now my cruise control works fine in the high idle mode. Still won't trust the cruise on the road but now at least I know that it was a sticking relay. Now to figure out which one.
So Dan and Gary here's my update. We'll see how long my Navy repair lasts.
It's time to add to this. I outsmarted myself which seems pretty easy to do but no damage. The cruise control was driving me nuts because sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. I tapped on the relay and it worked for awhile then quit while I was driving. I would tap and it would work, soooo I thought bad relay or connection. Wrong! Don't ask me how but I discovered that it works all the time as long as the engine brake is on, yes I said on! It is not supposed to work when the brake is on. So cruise problem better or maybe worse? At least it works now and my big toe feels better not having to control the speed constantly. Brake pedal switch still doesn't work but brake lights are fine. I've obviously got a wiring issue but at least it works and I turn it off whenever there are cars in my vicinity. I'm happy, sort of, now. If you have ideas I am open to all. Thanks
-
Jerry,
Sounds like you've got a mis-wire between or at relays K5 (Cruise Control) and K7 (Eng Brake). The relays are in the electrical bay beneath the driver window. The forum "Members Only" section has a sticky that will take you to wiring diagrams including one for a 2003 Patriot. You should be able to check wire numbers vs relay connections and locate the problem.
Steve
-
Jerry,
Sounds like you've got a mis-wire between or at relays K5 (Cruise Control) and K7 (Eng Brake). The relays are in the electrical bay beneath the driver window. The forum "Members Only" section has a sticky that will take you to wiring diagrams including one for a 2003 Patriot. You should be able to check wire numbers vs relay connections and locate the problem.
Steve
Thanks Steve, I have the diagrams, that how I knew which relay to bang (I mean tap) on. I'm just happy the cruise works now. It will be about #10 on my list of "things to do", behind leaky slides and Aladdin issues among others.
-
Well after driving to Bend we realized that when i hit cruse on the Aladin system did not say on but when i hit on and then resume it then said on so the aladin system in not picking up the signal that it is on-----works fine but still wont show on so i just hit resume and then adjust it up or down----didnt do anything to it in Bend