BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Ron Langdon on May 31, 2014, 05:09:13 AM
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I will be replacing my Goodyear 295/80r22.5 tires in the next few months. After reading various posts on tires, I am wondering what the current thinking is on 295 vs 315 tires? the posts suggest most are going for the 315 because they are bigger and in some cases less expensive. The discussion around Goodyear vs Michelin seems academic to me since they are both quality manufacturers and taste or customer loyalty seems to be a determining factor.
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Ron,
IMHO and experience with 2 sets of GYs; they seem to tend to cup much faster than Michelin. Haven't done an apples to apples comparison though as the GYs were on my Contessa and the Michelins are on my Marquis. 1st set of GYs on the Contessa cupped so bad I had to replace them at 51K miles with lots of tread left. Had bad shocks so thought that was major contributor. Replaced shocks and tires and even with regular alignments and rotations, the new GYs started cupping w/in 20K. Marquis has 25K on Michelins and no sighs of cupping. If I were in market I'd look at Michelin, Toyo, and Hankook, in that order.
Steve
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Ron,
As a matter of safety I think Michelin or Bridgestones seem to have fewer blow out complaints on the web. There seems to be some design issues as Steve pointed out with Goodyears that may or may not contribute to their fails. Goodyear is a reputable manufacturer but the RV application seems to be a more demanding application then you would expect. It may have to do with how much time they tend to sit compared to a truck tire or in general that the manufacturers of RVs tend to cut cost and have the tires running at max weights and pressures most of the time with little room for error.
I worked with a Michelin Engineer on an RV tire issue and he shared with me that even at this stage of tire design and build they do not understand why inner duals on the rear fail twice as often as the outers. It is hard to design out a tire weakness when you do not understand the root cause. I would want to have the absolute safest tires possible on the front wheels of my RV. I am running Michelin XZA2 Energy Tires and have had no issues with them but that is just one example.
Others might want to let us know what brand and model of tires they have had a fail on or issues with.
Later Ed
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We've had our Beaver for 10 years and it has 115,000 miles on it. It came with 295 Goodyears. I put 295 Michelins on at 7 years and somewhere near 70,000. We've had no issues and can't tell any difference.
After seminars and forums, I'm of the opinion that the worst thing we do to our motorhome tires is let them sit. Driven regularly, I think they stay in better condition.
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Ron,
I replaced the Goodyears on my 2005 Monterey with Michelin. They ride a lot better and don't forget about the deal thru FMCA for special pricing on Michelin. If you take the FMCA route you also get access to the Michelin Fleet Roadside assistance.
Dennis
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I recently upgraded to a 2007 Monaco Dynasty 43 that is significantly heavier than my old Contessa. Its tires were marked 5005 to 1006, so too old to have on a new-to-me coach, so I asked for Michelins. I was told it would be 4 to 6 weeks to get Michs, so what other brand would I take. 3 others were on offer. I took Toyos, which, at 4500 including mounting and taxes, beat the FMCA or Monaco Michelin price by over $1500 (8 tires). Once the coach arrived, the universal opinion gathered from all my ORI neighbours who came around was that Toyos are just as good as Michs, so save your money. Those prices were arranged by the dealer, so YMMV.
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Should not be missed in this thread that TOYO no longer supports tires for RV application.
Michelin claims longer life on RV tires with close inspection after 5 or 6 years. I have heard they are good out to 9 years.
Met a fella in Centralia whohad a 2011 Fleetwood and was locked in on Goodyear. I noticed one of his tires had a chunk ut of the side wall so he took the coack in to have all the tires inspected. The two front had belts showing so he had them replaced but changed to Michelin. He claimed to notice the difference right away in steering and control. He was about to drive the Alcan highway.
How much over all difference is there between 295's and 315's or R12's in size and what adjustments are possible to the odometer etc. to meet this change?
Keith
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I always take with a grain of salt any statements of improvement whenever people change tires. Each time I put new ones on any rig there is a noticeable positive result that's mostly due to my being used to the relatively lousy handling and ride of worn tires. It happened when I went from Goodyears to Michelins, and again from Michelins to Goodyears, on the same rig.
The enduring proof of quality can only really be held in longevity of wear, ride, and handling, which takes awhile to determine. The most important variable among manufacturers is probably their safety records; in that venue we can and should apply the most serious consideration on other owners' experiences as well as our own.
Joel
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I agree with Joel, very insightful.
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There is another excellent choice vs GY/Michelin - Continentals. Definitely equal in quality, construction & aftermarket claims & service. You don't have to look down the chain at Toyo, Hankook, etc.
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I'm hoping someone can help me with my tire codes - thought I knew what to look for eg. DOT 1032 on my truck. But not so on these Michelin XZA2 Energy
First pic is BBA 359 06-4086-01
second is E2 0087828;0003728-S e2
third is KHU03124E
fourth is 006
these are all the codes (numbers) on the tire other than size and pressure.
I have a gut feeling they are original, yet in very good condition with 30000 miles.
Jeff
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Jeff: can you see the other side of these tires / I have a dually that can only be seen with a mirror because it was mounted with the stamping on the inside.
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Jeff: can you see the other side of these tires / I have a dually that can only be seen with a mirror because it was mounted with the stamping on the inside.
Exactly...the DOT code has to be there by law. Some dealers install them with the code on the inside, just to **** you off. ;D
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Ron,
This is the Michelin RV tire information brochure. Page 3 will show you exactly what you are looking for.
https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/RV_Tires_Brochure.pdf
Later Ed
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Thanks for the advice. I feel kind of stupid now as I looked on the inside of one front tire and there it was....2706. Haven't checked the others but assume similar vintage.
So I guess I need to go tire shopping. The Monaco and fmca programs don't apply in Canada so will see what kind of deal the local tire shop can give. (or wait until I am in the US). Seems such a waste as they only have 30k on them. Maybe the tire shop will give me something for them and can sell them for retreads or something.
Jeff
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Jeff,
Those tires were produced around May of 2006, and are 8 years old. No matter the mileage, that age of tire is a potential blowout. I would strongly suggest that you put new tires on if you can, before leaving for the U. S. Its a huge safety issue. Others chimed in above with their recommendations on tires. On our last two coaches, we had Bridgestones and Yokohamas, respectively. I think after 2 years with the Yokohamas, I like them better, but we really had no issues with the Bridgestones either.
Stan
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Definitely will be putting new tires on before any travels. Should have looked closer sooner - guess I have been fortunate. I guess a little lighter wallet is better than being injured. May have to postpone some "wants" as this is a "need" !!
Jeff
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I'm kinda in the same spot you are, Jeff, but not in Canada and with only 16,000 miles. Even though the tires show no sign of checking, drying, wear, or micro-cracks, and have spent most of their lives stored with minimal sun exposure, I'll probably put new ones on this summer. The Les Schwab in Eugene/Junction City handles brands that most Schwab's don't, and is a reputable motorhome-experienced retailer, familiar with the FMCA/Michelin program.
I believe you and I missed out already on the best opportunities. I understand that Monaco discontinued their tire program recently, and FMCA's Michelin program discount was made less lucrative not long ago as well. Nevertheless, getting tires from a knowledgeable FMCA program participant in sales tax-free Oregon would likely save you money. Ditto if you can get to one of the Les Schwab's in Montana, but you'd want to check their experience with the discount program and if they sell Michelins for motorhomes; the one in Oregon is different because of its proximity to what used to be the home of Country Coach and Monaco, and unlike others it has its own unique store name - Bob Dickman Tire Center. http://www.dickmantires.com
Joel
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Michelin tell me their tires are good for 10 years with regular inspections
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Jeff,
Make sure the dealer knows you are tire saavy. (this is advice for everyone). Let them know you want new tires. I had new Michelins installed on my coach in June 2012. I did not notice but the tires were made in 2009. Three years old before the firsdt mile.
Dennis
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Dennis makes a good point that many have discovered after the fact. Another reason to buy from someone like Bob Dickman since they move a lot of motorhome tires, and you are less likely to get "new" ones with a couple years of warehouse age on them already. Regardless, check the DOT dates with the tech prior to install.
Joel
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And make sure you read the dates on the "new" tires that are being sold to you. Some may be as old as two years. Make sure they are really new.
Also we replace our tires every five years no matter what.
That's our routine. Someone once told us that perhaps the most important thing about an RV is to be sure that the tires are OK as in if one blows out on you while driving you can get in some serious trouble.
We have had two inside duals blow out on the passenger side and one right front passenger side in 18 years. I (Connie) was driving when the right front blew. Thankfully we have a Safety Plus and the coach kept running true down the highway. I just had to steer and get into the runoff lane. Thankfully it was on a flat interstate.
Some thoughts. Connie B.
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Went to the tire shop today and received quotes for different tires - michelins, Goodyear, BFGoodrich, Yokohoma. Michelins are the most, but others are similar. May seem odd, but the shop suggested going with BFG for the front as I am thinking of 315s for the front and then goodyears for the drive/tag. The michelins are 25% more than the GYs but I don't know if I'll Appreciate a 25% better tire. The shop suggested that BFGs and Michelin are better than the others at steer location, however they think I won't really notice any difference at the drive and tag.
I have room for 315s up front but not sure at drive/tag. Plus I'd have to reprogram speedometer. Weight isn't too much of an issue at rear so probably stay with 295s at those axles.
I Will make sure that the tires are all as new as can be. All are in stock or within a week or two.
Also it was mentioned to me that around 2010, it was mandated that tires must have date code on Both sides of tire.
Jeff
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JEFF....Your comment below
"Also it was mentioned to me that around 2010, it was mandated that tires must have date code on Both sides of tire."
By who/whom was this mandated?? I have Michlins that have 2013 dates and they only have the DOT date on one side.
Can you clarify please?
Leah
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Leah,
Just anecdotal from a guy at the tire shop.
So i did some searching - nothing definitive that i can find, however according to transport canada (canada's nhtsa) the Tire identification Number is supposed to be on both sides, but the date is not necessarily on both sides; Some manufactures may.
Sorry for the confusion, should have checked rather than pass along unverified information.
Jeff
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Something that I thought about and want to know if anyone has had an issue.
IF I put the 315s up front which are 1/2 taller (1" diameter), will I have to adjust the ride height of the coach? I suspect so. To not do that I'd have to go 315s all around although I don't believe there is room to put 315s all around - that might give a better overall ride.
Reason for thinking of going to 315s up front is my front weight is 14800 with me only. So not too far from 15,000. For the295s the Michelin site shows 15660 @120lbs which is what I run. If I go to 315s then at 115 there is 15840 or @110 there is 15220.
Maybe stay with the 295s as I haven't had any problems and the 5-10lbs in less pressure probably won't make that much of a ride difference. Besides with the 295s I probably could back off on the duals and tag as I run 100lbs in them - according to the Michelin I could probably back off to 90lbs.
Jeff
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In case you had not done so: If you do a search on the Forum here using "315 tire" and select "all words," then you will get a bunch of discussion on the 315 tire changeover.
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I did some more research (here and on iRV2 Forums - many discussions there) and have basically answered my own questions with the following information:
I have 8.25 rims. So going to 315s will only give me marginal load improvement as they are significantly downgraded when on a 8.25 rim vs. a 9 inch. See:
https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/RV_Tires_Brochure.pdf
Page 22.
Michelin shows that for a 8.25rim @ 120lbs, the 315 has a capacity of 8000lbs vs 7830 for the 295.
So for 170lbs of gain it isn't worth the problems of one set of larger tires and then adjusting ride height. Duals give more but the spacing is such that probably won't work. Plus then have to adjust system to recognize larger diameter tires.
Consequently the exercise has been worthwhile however I guess I'll be sticking to 295s all around.
Jeff
PS. now just have to see how many $ I am willing to spend. Michelins all around > than Goodyears by about $2k.
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Jeff,
You will not need to adjust the ride height if you change to 315s, because the ride height is determined by the distance between the suspension cradle and the frame (air bag height), and not the distance between the frame and the ground. Therefore, the ride height will not change if you change tire size.
Gerald
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Good to know,
Thanks again Gerald.