BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Larry Dedrick on June 20, 2014, 01:46:23 AM
-
Today running on the highway ( 70mph, outside temp 80 deg relatively flat with a few hills in South Dakota) eng temp steady at 195 degrees. Engine temp was varying between 188 to 198 degrees in response to thermostat. Most of the time temp stayed pretty steady at 192 to 194. there was a stretch where the temp peaked at 203 degrees and went back to 188 several times when the thermostat would open, but 203 degrees is unusual for this engine in my experience with it. This occurred several times and then never repeated this cycle to 203 degrees. We pulled off for fuel twice and refueled with engine idling and never noted the temp above 195 degrees.
We pulled into camp for the night and while I waited for Laura to process us in, about 10 minutes, the time from the interstate to the Rv park was about three minutes with a speed of 35 mph. After we pulled into our spot and with engine idling the Silverleaf gave me a Diagnostic indication " Hi Eng Temperature 230 Degrees" and also "Check Eng Coolant". We also noticed two annunciators, "Check Engine and Engine Warning". I shut the engine down.
I took my thermo gun and checked Engine head at 198 degrees, lower block at 210 deg, 2 inch coolant base from the upper block at 198 deg and radiator at 118 deg ??? that may be erroneous for not getting the laser on target due to shooting thru some metal fins on the body.
Will check fluid level in the morning along with eng oil. There is no indication of any leaks.
OK, Any ideas
Thanks in Advance. Larry D
-
Larry,
High temp at idle/slow speeds only sure sounds like poor air flow through the radiator.
Steve
-
#1 check radiator fins for dirt and debris.
#2 verify that the fan is coming on and ventilating the radiators as designed.
Joel
-
Joel and Steve:
I plan on hosing out any dirt or debris from the radiator in the morning, I may have sucked up a lot of grass a few days ago in my sons driveway, so I will see what a back wash will do, and check fluid level.
Thanks for the advice. Larry D
-
Larry,
That temp sounds like you might have been hitting the intercooler fins with the laser, they cover the entire outside of the radiator opening. The radiator lies behind that.
Later Ed
-
Thanks Ed, that makes sense. I will let my wife take a crack at it.
Larry D
-
Larry,
High temp at idle/slow speed is also a symptom of low fluid level. At low RPMs, the water pump can't move the remaining fluid fast enough to/through eh radiator to cool it.
Steve
-
Steve,
I checked coolant this morning and only added 20 ounces. Temp started rising again today when we pulled into a rest stop for a pit stop. Rose to 203 at idle when Larry accelerated a bit to bring RPMs up it went down to 199 then back to 201 and we quickly pulled back out onto the interstate and temp went down again. Called a CAT dealer and they are thinking thermostat and will check fan switch as well. Can't get into one now so will try to get an appointment when we get to Billings.
-
Ok had some issues again this morning and this afternoon while fueling up. Doesn't it seem logical to simply shut the engine off while fueling? This is the only time we have high temp problems is when idling.
Thanks,
Laura
-
Laura,
I'd add the water pump to the list of possible "suspects".
Steve
-
Steve,
Seems to be a coolant leak. It wasn't very low this morning but we had another overheat while fueling so shut down for an hour started her back up planning to drive the six miles to our campsite but she overheated quickly so got off at the next exit and shut her down. While I went to get the new thermostat Larry checked the coolant again and it was almost empty. Repairman is here now found the leak so will repair it and check the thermostat.
Thanks
Laura
-
Glad you found it. Good Luck!
Steve
-
Ok the saga continues. Fixed the leak went to drive the ten miles to the campground and overheating again! Repairman comes out again and says the fan that was working before now is not! Need to take it to a CAT Dealer and they can't look at it until Wednesday at which time we are supposed to be in Billings!
-
Larry,
When the repairman looked at the fan was the engine at temperature? The fan is thermostatically controlled and will not run if the engine isn't at operating temp.
Steve
-
Larry, there is a brass junction that the hydraulics run into near the radiator. Tap with a hammer and see if that loosens the valve. On occasion mone has stuck open and a tap assisted.
-
Steve
Turns out that our problem is two fold, one is a a faulty fan, it apparently is operating very sporadically. At the slower speeds it is very iffy if it will run and thus not provide the cooling air. The second problem was a loss of cooling fluid due to a leak at the front heater core for the front of the coach. We have lost more fluid than we realized and the repairman bypassed the core, thus eliminating the core from further leakage. We thought we had topped off the fluid, but the loss of fluid was much more than we realized, so after limping into the campground, I checked the reservoir again for coolant and it was needing more fluid. Come tomorrow, I will be making sure the coolant is all replenished. Had Laure pick up an extra four gallons to have on hand. It's hind sight now, but five days ago I could smell coolant fluid at the front of the coach. My teenage and adult experience taught me that if you smell coolant, Find the Leak, which I did not pursue aggressively enough.
So once we get the fluid topped Off this time, we will make a run for the cat facility to have our hydraulics checked to the fan. We will also have the thermostat replaced as advised by Roy Mueller, due to our engine temp reaching 250 degrees, even though it was momentary.
Thanks for your advice and help Steve.
Larry D
-
Tom
I will be checking out the Hydraulics over the next few days.
Thanks. Larry D
-
Larry,
Sounds like you are on the way to getting it fixed. I had the same issue with the heater core on mine last summer. Took me a long time to track it down. Then clamped off the hoses to the heater core and bought a few gallons of antifreeze to add at each stop. BTW, it will take a very skinny tech to get at the core as it is way up in the front cap on the driver's side.
Steve
-
Larry,
You are likely to find that the hydraulics are fine once you get the thermostats changed and the block full of antifreeze and purged of air. If you have not had a lot of codes of overheating stored over time then that would say that the hydraulic system was doing its job before the leak occurred. The fan and hydraulics do run a bit sporadically responding to when the system calls for cooling. Obviously this is hard to monitor from the driver seat at speed. At idle that fan may not be overly active at times.
On the subject of overheat and the block reaching 250 degrees. Your engine oil which normally runs in the 210F range should be changed given the oil would have seen temps well above the 250 degrees during this overheat. This is just a good precaution given the cost of an oil change vs ruining an expensive engine on degraded oil.
Later Ed
-
Ed
Good point on the oil change.We have 5000 miles on the oil, so it is a good time to change.
Thanks for the advice and info.
Larry D
-
Steve, Tom, and Ed
Thanks so much for the advice and info.
Larry D.
-
Larry: curious - any particular reason you leave your engine running while fueling?
-
Laura/Larry,
When I had my heater core replaced at Bend RV Repair, Jeff Spear, the tall skinny tech, was able to fit in the space behind the front cap. To facilitate removal and replacement of the core, he also removed the dash, and cut an access hole in the particle board below the dash. Two techs, top and bottom, could work together much faster than one from the bottom. The cut out was replaced to reseal the hole. Knowing this trick may save you some shop time when you have it done.
The other Larry
-
larryNCarolyn
We have 4 days of maintenance scheduled in Bend by BAC, I will see if they can accommodate the heater core. I have been up between the dash and front of the coach several times. The driver side I can not stand up but on the passenger side there is room for me to stand up and move around, but unfortunately not enough for doing the Twist (Chubby Checker Thing). I saw where the unit is that houses the heater core and the A/C coil and was considering talking this myself, but if BAC is experienced at this, I would prefer them to do the job.
I do believe the heater core has been leaking for quit some time, but the fluid was dripping in amongst the A/Cs and made it difficult to determine that I had a leak. there was a coolant odor I had detected a week ago, if only I had been more aggressive at looking for a leak. If you smell coolant, you most likely have a leak. Bad Me.
Thanks for the Info: Larry D
-
larryNCarolyn
We have 4 days of maintenance scheduled in Bend by BAC, I will see if they can accommodate the heater core. I have been up between the dash and front of the coach several times. The driver side I can not stand up but on the passenger side there is room for me to stand up and move around, but unfortunately not enough for doing the Twist (Chubby Checker Thing). I saw where the unit is that houses the heater core and the A/C coil and was considering talking this myself, but if BAC is experienced at this, I would prefer them to do the job.
I do believe the heater core has been leaking for quit some time, but the fluid was dripping in amongst the A/Cs and made it difficult to determine that I had a leak. there was a coolant odor I had detected a week ago, if only I had been more aggressive at looking for a leak. If you smell coolant, you most likely have a leak. Bad Me.
Thanks for the Info: Larry D
Not sure that you meant BCS rather than BAC, but that is a different shop than Bend RV Repair that the other Larry was talking about. BCS (Beaver Coach Service) is the original factory service center that is now independently owned but is still the go to shop for Beavers. Bend RV Repair is across the street and has many years of Beaver experience also. I'm sure either has a lot of experience fixing heater cores on Beavers.
The other Larry 2
EDIT: As a side note on the name Larry, I'm sure we are all of the same generation so I have an interesting story. I was checking in the RV at a dog show in Canby Oregon last summer and the parking attendant at the show was also named Larry. He told me that he was a retired middle school teacher and in 30 years of teaching he only had two Larrys in his classes. I guess it is not a popular name any more. In my generation there were Larrys everywhere and lots of confusion. I had three close friends named Larry and we were always swiveling our heads answering the same request.
-
Larry
Yes, I meant Beaver Coach Sales.
-
To All Who Responded to our issue:
Cat looked over Coolant system, replaced thermostat (as a precaution), Checked fan operation, and oil and filter change. ECM was checked by cat and good news was that it only indicated a max temp of 230 degrees. So, this whole episode was due to our coolant leaking out over a period of time. Had I been more pro-active on tracking down the coolant I smelt a week ago, this could have been averted.
Our 40 mile trip to our campsite for the night, showed normal operating temps and All Is Good.
Laura and I have changed our mind on trading this Beaver in, For Now!
Larry D